(Topic ID: 68869)

IJ Williams "You Cheat, Dr. Jones!" Club

By RDReynolds

5 years ago

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  • 396 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by KornFreak28
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders


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#3961 8 months ago

I recently replaced the globes on my IJ and noticed most of the top row of lighting on the backbox wasn't lighting up. Didn't think much about it and I was pretty sure it had been like that for a while (10+ years). I finally decided to track it down and follow some wiring to see where the loose wire was. I found that the J120 connector was blackened on pins 9 & 10 and couldn't be removed. With a little gentle persuasion (a vice-grip) I carefully pulled it out as 2 pieces (see below). My question is does anyone know how to test J120, specifically pins 10 & 11 to see if they are working - maybe some sort of general connectivity test with a multimeter, before I wire this up again.

I've got no idea when/how/why/where this happened and the machine plays fine, apart from the fact that the flippers, following the change-over to LEDs, have become too strong, which is another question.

Additionally, does anyone know who has the 11 pin edge connector?

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#3967 8 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

This is typical burning due to the heavy current load on that connector.

Thanks for your response. I was wondering why this would happen. Given I've got now full LED on the backboard, my guess would be that the load is going to be significantly less, but I can only guess why a 100% lighting rail would draw so much power it causes this. I've had the machine since 2003 and I don't think it's been working from then. I never leave my machines on when not using them and you would likely either hear that or smell it.

I am experienced in electronics and soldering but before I take the board apart, I was wondering if I put the multimeter on the pin and on the ground, I should see 6.8V on both of those pins, right? They are listed as backbox 6.8V. When I look at the connectors on the board, they both look good as the damage seems confined to the molex plug and a very minor chip in the socket on the PDB.

Quoted from Billc479:

you should send out the circuit board to have the connector changed

Can I ask why you think this would be necessary? If the board is OK (ie: tests for 6.8V), shouldn't all be good? I'm in Australia so I'm limited with the number of experts in the field I can access, therefore you get used to doing everything yourself where possible

My only real concern is what caused this in the first place. I'm hoping by the fact I'm removing all the original globes (won't be going back to incandescent) that whatever globe in the past caused this, the LEDs won't do the same thing

Quoted from Billc479:

I am not sure why the flippers are stronger with LEDs

Neither am I. The flippers are stock coils. Is it possible to put a resistor across the coil to reduce it's power marginally?

#3971 8 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

the pins start to oxidize (corrode), which lowers the amount of conductive area on the pin connection, which in turn pushes more current through a smaller area, and higher current produces higher temperatures

Ah that makes perfect sense. I see where this is going. I will try to gently sand the pins and maybe I'll see if I can thin-tin the pins with a solder cover in order to gain a slighter higher conductive coating. I'm rather hoping that what should be a noticeable drop in draw from the LEDs might save the board a trip to the pinball doctor. Very much appreciate your thoughts and explanation on this

Did you have any thoughts on whether I could marginally knock down the power of the coils with a resistor across the terminals? Is that possible / legal / immoral or fattening?

#3975 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

make sure you have the correct coils. If so, leave them alone

They are definitely stock coils, both on the flipper and kickers. Also in very good condition. I find it hard to believe it's not related to the LED upgrade however as the power of the flippers have increased substantially since then to the point I'm concerned about what I'll break with the extra power. Balls are flying off things at a significant rate which didn't happen before the LEDs were installed. I didn't want to put in lower power coils as I'm sure the opposite will happen and I'll be stuck with flips that can't make the POA - usual story

I'll see if I can find a fellow in AUS to deal with the board. I'm sure there's a few specialists who handle these sorts of boards, but they are getting thinner everywhere.

Quoted from Billc479:

Instead of looking to add components (assuming your voltage is normal), look at having the EOS switch come into play sooner

Ill also check this out to see what's happening here. Anything that helps here would be great.

Quoted from trumpy:

I can put you on to "beaky" in Melbourne

Yes please! If you have details I'd be grateful for a PM

#3980 8 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Concerning the voltages - yes, you should be able to read the volts (I don't remember if it is AC or DC), but if you try to read the voltage before changing the header pins, you will find that you really have to have the meter lead "dig in" or scratch through the oxidation to feel the voltage

I got around to testing the voltages on the board against ground and can see that no matter where I touch on the pins, I get 7.7V AC. There doesn't seem to be any dead patches on the connectors. That's only a cursory test, but every point I could touch always produced 7.7V. This seems to indicate that the pins are quite conductive, doesn't it? I've been given the contact for a board specialist in Melbourne Australia (where I am based) - many thanks to @trumpy for this - and I'm going to discuss the matter with him. I'm quite reticent to pull the board out if it doesn't need to be, but clearly I don't want the same problem to happen again, so I'll discuss with him and get the expert view

Quoted from Billc479:

For the connectors with the wire, use Trifurcon pins in the new connector

Thanks for the pointer on this. I've been reading up a lot of this now and understand how much better these are. This was a great tip and I also found this video which outlines pretty much the whole process which might also help someone else. Coincidently it shows the connector which looks almost identical to mine:

I'm ordering the crimps and crimp tool so I can rewire the edge connector. The Trifucon pins look much better.

Quoted from Jgaltr56:

LEDs draw less current which could allow voltage to rise. I've never noticed a problem but it's theoretically possible. You should check voltages with your multi meter. V=IR

Do you have a suggestion as to what exact point I should check? With the power of the flippers I see, when shooting the left ramp/rail, the ball will fly off the rail now about 80% of the time. I feel the pain when I hit a target knowing what it might be doing to the machine. Most obviously though is that it's almost impossible to get into the mode start because the ball goes in too quickly, it almost invariably comes out (a lot of people will say this is their normal experience anyway My kids play the game and we've all noticed the power increase. I'm still looking to maybe change the BLUE solenoids to ORANGE and see what happens. I was waiting to fix the edge connector first so I can test with effectively the full power draw.

#3981 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

If the game plays too fast increase the pitch a little

Forgot to respond to this. The machine is almost at full tilt. Certainly above the norm. I don't want to make it too easy for the kids!

#4003 8 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

I am at a loss as to why you've got so much power to the flippers. Did you check the voltage at the flipper coils? I have 45VDC on mine

OK Houston, we have a problem!

This certainly explains why the flippers have more power.

Anyone have suggestions as to why this is happening?

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#4004 8 months ago

With the high reading on the flippers, I did some research on the WPC power driver board and found the test points on the board. All the test points for 5, 12, and 20 volt all tested within short amount of what they should be. The 50V supply however tested at 70V, but according to the Wiki:

"TP6 - 50VDC power. This test point will actually measure 70 - 75VDC. This power is used for all coils in the game"

So that sounds right too. Which just leaves why I am seeing 67V at the flippers...?

#4014 8 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

I'm in the dark about what's going on there. Maybe someone else can chime in.

I can provide some more information now. liorillusion has been helping out and I am grateful for his help too!

We've tested all the test points on the PDB, and they all check out to their nominal voltages (within the tolerances expected). We've checked the BRs, switch matrix, Fliptronics and associated cabling and connectors. All check out. Connectivity to the flipper coils is good. But here's the real interesting part. I have a TZ machine which is clearly nearly identical in design and board layout and guess what the flippers are sitting at? 67.7V... And this machine was converted to LED but it works perfectly without crazy power

I'm beginning to wonder if the higher voltages are an effect of being on Australian power (240V @ 50Hz) rather than the stock US 110/120V. The machines are international models, with AU/EU power supplies (not step-down transformers) and maybe an effect of this is that they run higher voltages across the flippers. Maybe this is expected behaviour and my simple solution is just to change the flipper coils out from the Blues to either Orange (1 step down) or Red (2 steps down) and see what happens. The rest of the machine is basically working, apart from a burnt connector which I'm getting replaced next week, so my thoughts now are that there isn't actually a problem, but rather the load of the incandescents were such that they dragged down the line voltage. Now free of the globe draw, the power at the flippers have increased and away we go

2 weeks later
#4053 7 months ago

Just thought I would update anyone interested in my "overpowered flippers" problem I had earlier:


One of the pinside community (trumpy) provided me with a contact locally here in Australia who came out and repaired the WPC board where I had a burnt connector. After we took the board out we noticed a couple of weird things. The first thing we saw was there was a manufacturing error where 2 resistors had been dropping into the same hole and soldered in. The result was that the floating resistor was not trimmed beneath the board and the tail was touching other connections under the board. I had two edge connectors changed and two of the smaller caps (not the larger 1uF ones which all looked in excellent condition).

Everything else was checked over, including the power that was set correctly, and the result now is that the flippers appear to have gone back to a reasonable performance level, maybe fractionally more powerful than they were before the LEDs replaced the incandescents, but nothing like what it was before the board was patched. All in all a great result and the machine is back in order and playing as mean as it always has. I've only got one other request:

sdtm (resized).PNG
2 months later
#4336 5 months ago

That *looks* like J133, especially the colour scheme, but the connector might have burned out and has been replaced. I can just make out what looks like a modified/new J133 connector in the picture. J133 is mostly red/other colour cables.

2 months later
#4554 89 days ago
Quoted from Davi:

You are lucky, I have a blank playfield and a metal ramp until tomorrow...

That's an impressive looking playfield.

One question. The finish on it looks matt/satin. What's been done to the playfield itself?

3 weeks later
#4658 64 days ago
Quoted from CoPinfan:

Just picked up one of these

Don't forget to get one of these as well:

amazon.com link »

Permanent eternal life

1 month later
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