(Topic ID: 68869)

IJ Williams "You Cheat, Dr. Jones!" Club


By RDReynolds

6 years ago



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There are 5197 posts in this topic. You are on page 34 of 104.
#1651 2 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

+1 on all. Especially take out the backplate. I just saw mine in my pinball repair bag and I literally mocked it. So much better without it.

Quoted from beelzeboob:

Left flipper.
Right flipper.
Mine goes to the Y most of the time.
Screw the tape. Take out the backplate and put foam all around the enclosure. Thank me later.

Gospel spoken here! Gameplay is much improved with this setup.

#1652 2 years ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

Saucer eject: mine does this 99% of the time
Bumpers: mine never does this
Top rollover lanes: mine is fairly random

Hmmmmm... The SDTM drains I get coming down the Super Jackpot lane are annoying! It just didn't feel like it should do that, as it really messes up the otherwise nice flow. Any suggestions on how to improve/resolve this?

Also, to remove the backplate, do I have to remove the POA playfield?

#1653 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Hmmmmm... The SDTM drains I get coming down the Super Jackpot lane are annoying! It just didn't feel like it should do that, as it really messes up the otherwise nice flow. Any suggestions on how to improve/resolve this?
Also, to remove the backplate, do I have to remove the POA playfield?

I used to have that problem. Then I leveled the playfield more accurately and it went away. I'd cheat the level if you have to. It kills the flow.

#1654 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Hmmmmm... The SDTM drains I get coming down the Super Jackpot lane are annoying! It just didn't feel like it should do that, as it really messes up the otherwise nice flow. Any suggestions on how to improve/resolve this?
Also, to remove the backplate, do I have to remove the POA playfield?

Mine is jacked to either 7.5 degrees or even 8. Of course, check your level from side to side. I think you do have to partially remove the playfield to get to the screws underneath, but I don't think it has to come entirely out. Shouldn't take you more than a half hour to do all of it.

#1655 2 years ago

I'm new to the club ,my IJ is still in line for a shopping , sorry if I missed this but what back plate are you talking about?

#1656 2 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I used to have that problem. Then I leveled the playfield more accurately and it went away. I'd cheat the level if you have to. It kills the flow.

Cheat it by going past 6.5 degrees, or adjusting the side to side so it's not at zero?

#1657 2 years ago
Quoted from Averell:

And this is the only one solution to prevent the switch matrix for short circuit.
Also you can see the hole protector and the modified ball deflector to catch the balls much more better then before.

Looks nice! What did you use to protect the switch? Thanks!

#1658 2 years ago

I have been emailing Pinbits for the last 2 weeks. No responses. Does anyone know if they are still in business. I need a 3rd magnet opto for my TZ.

Thanks
LitzDoc

#1659 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Cheat it by going past 6.5 degrees, or adjusting the side to side so it's not at zero?

Either. I found steeper reduced the the super jackpot sdtm drains but made the poa really almost impossible.

#1660 2 years ago

This is a piece of folded spring steel and I drilled it that it fits exactly to the switch bracket.
Mostly the balls become airborne if they hit the drop targets next to the mode hole and then the switch bracket under the POA will be hit and short the switch matrix or burn the diode.
I also use the same gutter (modified) at the mode hole that is mounted left to the entry of the ball through.
With this modification you get 7 of 10 balls locked into the mode hole and you protect the plastics around that area, too.

dscn4692eusb6 (resized).jpg

#1661 2 years ago

Can anyone point me to a guide for removing the POA, so I can access the backplate for the Mode saucer. While I'm under there, I'll likely change all bulbs to LED.

#1662 2 years ago

I did that for my Indy also and as a hint please check if LED is working properly before you reassemble the POA - later you can't swap them easy, each time a LED is damaged you have to disassemble the POA again.

To remove the POA you just have to disconnect the plugs under the playfield, loose the internal wrench bolt at the drive motor (be careful not to damage the screw) and loose the bracket in front of the POA.
Then you can pull the POA slowly off the drive shaft.

#1663 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Can anyone point me to a guide for removing the POA, so I can access the backplate for the Mode saucer. While I'm under there, I'll likely change all bulbs to LED.

Do you have the manual?
Its in there.

#1664 2 years ago

Hi guys. Just got an IJ and the game frequently goes silent for a few seconds then the volume goes to max and doesn't quiet unless you open door and adjust volume. I've heard this is a bug in IJ software but know that I also saw this behavior in a Cactus Canyon I owned recently and was able to fix it by reseating some cables. Are there any known fixes to this issue on IJ?

Thanks!
Craig

#1665 2 years ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Hi guys. Just got an IJ and the game frequently goes silent for a few seconds then the volume goes to max and doesn't quiet unless you open door and adjust volume. I've heard this is a bug in IJ software but know that I also saw this behavior in a Cactus Canyon I owned recently and was able to fix it by reseating some cables. Are there any known fixes to this issue on IJ?
Thanks!
Craig

It may be that you need to update the sound software from L-2 to L-3
see here for the game revisions:
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/Williams/tech/roms/indyjones.html

#1666 2 years ago

I was going to post this in the general pinball thread, but figured I'd post it here to see if this is common.

The flippers feel a little weak/loose, and I noticed occasionally when catching a ball, the flipper would droop down a little from the weight/impact of the ball. I can still make ramps shots and such, but overall it does not feel tight and strong.

Any thoughts?

#1667 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Hmmmmm... The SDTM drains I get coming down the Super Jackpot lane are annoying! It just didn't feel like it should do that, as it really messes up the otherwise nice flow. Any suggestions on how to improve/resolve this?
Also, to remove the backplate, do I have to remove the POA playfield?

Damien, glad to hear that the replacement IC for U20 resolved your switch matrix issue.

At first read with this post (without looking at a pic of the PF) I was thinking that the SDTM was coming from the right orbit. Although I realized that his is not where you were referring to, this could be another potential issue as the starpost rubber is often oversized and might kick out the ball toward the middle. Your IJ might have a larger rubber there. For the SJ lane, check the actual post rubbers as well to see if they stick out beyond the ball rail/guide. This could have the same effect. I've attached a pic found on the net and circled two areas of interest but check all posts and rubbers which could cause grief.

I think that that SDTM from the Super Jackpot might be resolved with leveling but it sounds like you have been looking at this. Check the pitch but also across the width of the pin (top of cabinet in front of speaker panel).

IJ_misc (resized).jpg

#1668 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Cheat it by going past 6.5 degrees, or adjusting the side to side so it's not at zero?

Over/under adjusting pitch will impact ball speed and perceived flipper strength. Regarding the other post asking about flipper strength check the gap of the EOS on each flipper. These need to be just right or it will greatly impact your flipper response.

#1669 2 years ago

Damien: You have to remember that Indy use Fliptronic in combination with opto-electronic. First ensure that both opto-electronics for flipper fingers are clean and working properly. Next is Fliptronic, that pulse the coils for every ~30 ms while attracted to save coil and electric. It's recommended that EOS are adjusted correct and accurate or the fingers will suspend the balls more or less and the fingers could fall down if hit by a ball. Take a look into the Manual.

#1670 2 years ago
Quoted from Averell:

Damien: You have to remember that Indy use Fliptronic in combination with opto-electronic. First ensure that both opto-electronics for flipper fingers are clean and working properly. Next is Fliptronic, that pulse the coils for every ~30 ms while attracted to save coil and electric. It's recommended that EOS are adjusted correct and accurate or the fingers will suspend the balls more or less and the fingers could fall down if hit by a ball. Take a look into the Manual.

How do I determine the correct EOS setting?

#1671 2 years ago

EOS for Fliptronic are always open and barely close at the end of stroke. Try to adjust a space of 1.5-2.0 mm between the contacts.

#1672 2 years ago
Quoted from Averell:

EOS for Fliptronic are always open and barely close at the end of stroke. Try to adjust a space of 1.5-2.0 mm between the contacts.

So I got a chance to look at the EOS and they are about 2mm open when the flipper is at rest, and when the flipper is raised they contact and bend.

Put in a few games, and something interesting happened during my game that might help in troubleshooting. I had the right flipper up, to catch a ball, and when it hit the flipper, the flipper shot it off quickly without me doing anything. I'm pretty sure I saw the flipper drop down a touch, and fire back up. It was very fast.

What do you guys think?

#1673 2 years ago

This is the coil protection and know you must adjust the EOS in that way, that it's closed a little bit earlier before the plunger reach the end of stroke. It's a bit tricky but the only way... try and error.
In fact, you need a depreciation area where the flipper can move a bit without opening the EOS.
If EOS opens to early flipper will shot back again, if it opens to late it will be powerless and fall down.
You have to find the right position.
I know several pinball machines (WPC) with that issue... so is mine.
If you don't like it, you may lump it.

#1674 2 years ago

I've adjusted it a bit, and it definitely works better. Just confirming though, when the flipper is at a rest (flipper down) the EOS should be touching tightly. When the flipper is pressed (flipper up) the EOS should slightly open to about 1.5-2mm?

#1675 2 years ago

No,
EOS with Fliptroic (WPS) is always open if flipper is not pressed.
EOS should have contact at the end of stroke... of course a little bit earlier.
Don't confuse with other Systems, for instance System 11!

This is the description from the original Indy manual section 1-46.

Flipper Switches
This game uses the new Fliptronic II Electronic Flipper System. The End-of-Stroke switches are
NORMALL Y OPEN. The switch should close when the flipper is energized. All E.O.S. switches and
flipper button cabinet switches are gold flashed computergrade leaf switches. Only low computer current
is carried through these switches. DO NOT FILE or abrasively clean these switches! DO NOT REPLACE
these switches with the old style tungsten high current type switches as intermittent operation could
occur. Note: Unlike the old style of flipper, an E.O.S. switch failure does not harm the flipper. The game
notifies the operator of the switch being mis-adjusted in the test report, but continues to play. The E.O.S.
switches are a means by which the new electronic flippers feel and play with all of the subtleties of the old
flippers.

Here's a Picture of my Indy, but the assembly is modified with STERN Clamps and bronze bearings.

DSCN4483 (resized).JPG

#1676 2 years ago

I totally confused it with an older game, but good thing is I used some logic and set it as you have displayed in your photo.

I'm new to all this, so I totally appreciate all the patience with my questions that you guys probably find elementary.

I'll get it... Just need a little time and practice

#1677 2 years ago

I was always understand that the diode side off coil isnt supposed to be at coil stop end

#1678 2 years ago
Quoted from Averell:

Here's a Picture of my Indy

your coil is on backwards, the connectors should on the other side.

#1679 2 years ago

Yes agreed not on coil stop end

Quoted from smiley:your coil is on backwards, the connectors should on the other side.

#1680 2 years ago

Got parts today to rebuild my flippers, so I'll give that a shot tonight if I get time. I know this is probably ABC basic stuff to you all, but this is the my first rebuild, so I'm pretty excited!

Just curious to know where the spring should go. I know there are three holes to select. Would you go with the closest one (loose), middle, or furthest (tight)?

#1681 2 years ago

opinions on mirror blades? I was thinking of gold to match the rest of the upgrades i was planning but im thinking gold mirror blades might be gold overkill at that point

#1682 2 years ago

If anyone is looking at leaving the club im looking for a good to collector quality machine within 5 hours of Richmond,Virginia to purchase

#1683 2 years ago
Quoted from Mrawesome44:

opinions on mirror blades? I was thinking of gold to match the rest of the upgrades i was planning but im thinking gold mirror blades might be gold overkill at that point

No such thing as gold overkill! I'd go for it.

#1684 2 years ago

Hello all, Pinbits is still running. I just bought a shaker motor for my IJ (sorry last one) and they have the STTNG and AFM shakers in. Not sure how many so if you need one for the other two, go grab it.

#1685 2 years ago

Can anyone point me to a good guide to removing the POA? The diagram in the manual is not very clear.

I'm looking to replace lamps under it, repair a switch, and remove the back plate on the Mode saucer.

Thanks

#1686 2 years ago

Disconnect all the connectors under the playfield for the POA. Loosen the set screw at the top where it connects to the shaft of the motor. At the bottom near the exit, remove the two hex screws where the bottom support attaches to the playfield. Also remove the small metal exit ramp. Slide the POA down towards the bottom of playfield and remove.

#1687 2 years ago
Quoted from Jrwill13lv:

Hello all, Pinbits is still running. I just bought a shaker motor for my IJ (sorry last one) and they have the STTNG and AFM shakers in. Not sure how many so if you need one for the other two, go grab it.

Nothing makes me saltier than trying to find a shaker motor that 1 out of a 1000 people are able to buy.

#1688 2 years ago
Quoted from Gnatty:

Disconnect all the connectors under the playfield for the POA. Loosen the set screw at the top where it connects to the shaft of the motor. At the bottom near the exit, remove the two hex screws where the bottom support attaches to the playfield. Also remove the small metal exit ramp. Slide the POA down towards the bottom of playfield and remove.

In the manual, it shows that the bridge needs to be removed. Does it?

#1689 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

In the manual, it shows that the bridge needs to be removed. Does it?

Yes, the bridge needs to be removed to get POA off.

QSS

#1690 2 years ago
Quoted from smiley:

your coil is on backwards, the connectors should on the other side.

I know some pinheads suppose that the soldering of the wiring might brake, but for me it's just a philosophic lining.

#1691 2 years ago
Quoted from Gnatty:

Disconnect all the connectors under the playfield for the POA. Loosen the set screw at the top where it connects to the shaft of the motor. At the bottom near the exit, remove the two hex screws where the bottom support attaches to the playfield. Also remove the small metal exit ramp. Slide the POA down towards the bottom of playfield and remove.

Any suggestions on how to get the POA levelled nicely after reinstalling? Right now, when I lean it to the left, the ball rolls down nicely and hits all switches. But when I lean right, it fumbles a bit around the second light and drops into the first hole most of the time.

Also, when I have the POA off, I'm going to remove the backplate for the Mode saucer. I recall seeing posts about lining it with foam after. Anyone know specifically what foam I should be using, the size, and the proper application?

Thanks again

#1692 2 years ago

My mode hole did the same.

Problem: the rod that ejects the ball was against one side of the plastic guide (slot in red practice piece) forcingtje ball to eject to one side.

Fix: loosened screw from celenoid (4) and linkage (3) underneith pf. Adjusted rod so it was centered and tightened everything down. Now ejects to left flipper.

#1693 2 years ago

officially upgraded my ad to a featured one. Cant wait till im able to find one for sale

#1694 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Wondering if you guys can chime in and tell me if this sounds like it's dialed in right:
- Mode saucer ejects ball and it hit the top of the slingshot, and then bounces over to the right flipper. Most of the videos I've watched shows it dropping to the left flipper first.
- When ball comes out of bumpers, and comes down the Super Jackpot lane, it often goes right down the middle unless I give it a nudge and save it.
- When ball is launched, it goes to the "I" in INDY about 90% of the time.
I've leveled everything nicely, so I'm just wondering if the above sounds like normal IJ activity.
Also, I know I've seen fixes for the Mode saucer rejecting balls using foam. I ended up lining the left guide and backplate with magnetic tape and it seems to have made a slight improvement.

Sounds like your playfield is not level, your cab might be, the glass might be, the backbox might be, but the playfield may not be. A good indication is everything you described. A pitch angle that is to steep will exhibit some of these same issues you are describing on IJ, or a combination of both. Broken side rails can attribute to this too as a twist can develop in the playfield. A playfield that has stood up for an extended time in the pin on the prop rod can twist and warp. Most of the side rails were made of soft wood like pine them wrapped in a vinyl that had an oak pattern on them. Widebody pins are the worst on these types of rails do to the excess weights.

I am in no way insulting your techniques or what you know, but I don't know how you did it, so I'll ask. How did you level your pin? If you did it any other way besides actually putting a level on the playfield, that may be your issue. I use a digital inclinometer on my playfields, the trick to using them is to ensure the placement is correct, when measuring an incline if the instrument is not exactly perpendicular/parallel the measurement will not be accurate.

#1695 2 years ago

One day I'll have one....

#1696 2 years ago
Quoted from Devo10:

My mode hole did the same.
Problem: the rod that ejects the ball was against one side of the plastic guide (slot in red practice piece) forcingtje ball to eject to one side.
Fix: loosened screw from celenoid (4) and linkage (3) underneith pf. Adjusted rod so it was centered and tightened everything down. Now ejects to left flipper.

Interesting. I am going to have to give that a shot.

#1697 2 years ago
Quoted from Bud:

I am in no way insulting your techniques or what you know, but I don't know how you did it, so I'll ask.

I get OCD when it comes to the level. I use a standard bubble level, digital level, and small digital inclinometer. I find putting a straight edge along the top of the slingshots, and then placing the digital level on that works well for gauging the horizontal level. For vertical slant, I will put the digital level between the flippers resting on the centre of the apron, and then the centre of the level is usually around where factories install their bubble levels. I also take the inclinometer, and I put it in a few spots across the middle of the pf to see what reading I get. Somewhere between the slingshots, I like to be at 6.5 degrees.

With IJ, it is obviously more difficult because you have the mini pf to level as well, and it could be off while the main pf is perfect. I'm planning to remove the POA later this week when I have time, and get the the Mode backplate removed while I'm at it. But when I put it all back together, I'd be interested in hearing how I can adjust the level on that.

Cheers.

#1698 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I get OCD when it comes to the level. I use a standard bubble level, digital level, and small digital inclinometer. I find putting a straight edge along the top of the slingshots, and then placing the digital level on that works well for gauging the horizontal level. For vertical slant, I will put the digital level between the flippers resting on the centre of the apron, and then the centre of the level is usually around where factories install their bubble levels. I also take the inclinometer, and I put it in a few spots across the middle of the pf to see what reading I get. Somewhere between the slingshots, I like to be at 6.5 degrees.
With IJ, it is obviously more difficult because you have the mini pf to level as well, and it could be off while the main pf is perfect. I'm planning to remove the POA later this week when I have time, and get the the Mode backplate removed while I'm at it. But when I put it all back together, I'd be interested in hearing how I can adjust the level on that.
Cheers.

Sounds like you have a good idea on how to level a PF. I've had 3 IJs and only one has exhibited the symptoms yours has and it was due to a twisted PF. I could adjust and the PF would be level at the top but not at the bottom etc.

#1699 2 years ago

Question for IJ owners... What slant do you have your game at?

I had it at 6.5, but the ball seems to bounce a lot, and it's near impossible to catch the ball, as it is bouncing and rolling off the flipper.

#1700 2 years ago

7.5 Could be more...

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