Quoted from rwmech5:

Joined the club, is there anyone making new cabinets with artwork? Virtuapin has cabinets but am curious about a turnkey one.

Quoted from rwmech5:

Joined the club, is there anyone making new cabinets with artwork? Virtuapin has cabinets but am curious about a turnkey one.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Paul does a great job on his complete cabinets.
They are really nice.
You will still have to drill a few holes in them.

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Time to open up the inlanes! Great game but a long player.
Any idea what is causing the localized verticle black lines in the playfield?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

BLUF: What would cause extra players to randomly be added during gameplay?
So I decided to install a playfield protector on this machine to keep the planking from getting worse. I have installed these before and absolutely love the look they give of an ultra shiny playfield... looks almost like clearcoat.
Now that I took everything off and on the machine I am hunting down a few gremlins. I still have to fix the left ramp entrance optos, the pit drop rollout, and some issues with the start button.
During gameplay, extra players are added so by the time I have finished 3 balls I have 4 players even if only hitting the button once. I am trying to narrow down the problem and am open to suggestions on where to look. Other than recording a game and looking for when the additional games get added, any ideas on how to troubleshoot this?
Thanks![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

BLUF: What would cause extra players to randomly be added during gameplay?
So I decided to install a playfield protector on this machine to keep the planking from getting worse. I have installed these before and absolutely love the look they give of an ultra shiny playfield... looks almost like clearcoat.
Now that I took everything off and on the machine I am hunting down a few gremlins. I still have to fix the left ramp entrance optos, the pit drop rollout, and some issues with the start button.
During gameplay, extra players are added so by the time I have finished 3 balls I have 4 players even if only hitting the button once. I am trying to narrow down the problem and am open to suggestions on where to look. Other than recording a game and looking for when the additional games get added, any ideas on how to troubleshoot this?
Thanks![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from dmacy:

Check the switch diode under POA above mode start. Happened to me. Thanks to beelzeboob here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ij-williams-you-cheat-dr-jones-club/page/38#post-3849724

Quoted from beelzeboob:

You would think it's a flaky start switch that's adding players; it's probably not, though.
When I had this problem, it was a crunched diode on a switch on the path of adventure...bottom right switch, I think it was. It sits right above the mode hole and gets squashed against the switch, creating a short that creates the problems you're describing.
See if you can take a look under there to see if that's the problem. If so, you just have to straighten all that stuff out and you should be good to go.
Otherwise...yeah - it's a flaky start button.

Quoted from dmacy:

Check the switch diode under POA above mode start. Happened to me. Thanks to beelzeboob here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ij-williams-you-cheat-dr-jones-club/page/38#post-3849724

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Will check when I get home, but that is probably it. I had some other issues I troubleshot on that POA and this is likely it.
Thanks!

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks. It definitely looked messed up but after taking it apart and adjusting it the machine had the same extra player symptoms. Will double check work tomorrow. Open to other suggestions.[quoted image]

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks. It definitely looked messed up but after taking it apart and adjusting it the machine had the same extra player symptoms. Will double check work tomorrow. Open to other suggestions.[quoted image]

Quoted from Pin_Fandango:you have already mentioned you had issues with the start button, so before you keep on diagnosing everything, why not looking at the obvious? this is usually the best way of solving any pinball problem in my experience.
Once you confirm the start button is not an issue, you will then will be require to to check the column where the Start button is connected to and see what switch is shorting.
The advice given previously is correct, in the sense that MINI BOTTOM HOLE switch (73) and Start button are in the same ROW. All that to say, the switch shorting Start could be any switch related to Start on either column or row.
Cover the basic first, start with the start button and get it out of the way, your issue there might also be related to another short in the column/row.
Study the manual a bit (page 3-2) and this video (pay attention to the diode orientation, the video is not a reflection of the manual):

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks. It definitely looked messed up but after taking it apart and adjusting it the machine had the same extra player symptoms. Will double check work tomorrow. Open to other suggestions.[quoted image]

Quoted from Manny65:

Switch 73 is the opto switch for the min-PF lower hole, not the roll-over microswitch in the lower right (this is switch 78)

Quoted from dmacy:

It’s the switch I posted a picture of. It’s a common problem. Hoping Satan can see the light of the Lord lol. I feel like I’m shouting at the clouds.

Quoted from dmacy:

It’s the switch I posted a picture of. It’s a common problem. Hoping Satan can see the light of the Lord lol. I feel like I’m shouting at the clouds.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Youre doing the lords pinball work...
Sometimes clouds need to be shouted at!

Quoted from Manny65:

LOL - from his post I took that he'd fixed the short on that switch but the issue with start button was still occurring ... guess we'll find out

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks. It definitely looked messed up but after taking it apart and adjusting it the machine had the same extra player symptoms. Will double check work tomorrow. Open to other suggestions.[quoted image]

Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

you have already mentioned you had issues with the start button, so before you keep on diagnosing everything, why not looking at the obvious? this is usually the best way of solving any pinball problem in my experience.
Once you confirm the start button is not an issue, you will then will be require to to check the column where the Start button is connected to and see what switch is shorting.
The advice given previously is correct, in the sense that MINI BOTTOM HOLE switch (73) and Start button are in the same ROW. All that to say, the switch shorting Start could be any switch related to Start on either column or row.
Cover the basic first, start with the start button and get it out of the way, your issue there might also be related to another short in the column/row.
Study the manual a bit (page 3-2) and this video (pay attention to the diode orientation, the video is not a reflection of the manual):

Quoted from Manny65:

I'd suggest going to switch test mode:
1. Do you seeing the start button being intermittently triggered? Try shaking/bumping the machine. This is show whether the start button is the issue
2. If the start button is being trigger, then checking all the switches - what you need to look for is when you activate one switch, the matrix shown on the DMD shows 2 switches being activated. As per terryb video that Pin_Fandango posted you'll be able to narrow down where the shorted diode is

Quoted from dmacy:

It’s the switch I posted a picture of. It’s a common problem. Hoping Satan can see the light of the Lord lol. I feel like I’m shouting at the clouds.

Quoted from Manny65:

LOL - from his post I took that he'd fixed the short on that switch but the issue with start button was still occurring ... guess we'll find out

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks for the ideas guys. I did fix the short in the bottom right path of adventure switch, but still have the same symptoms.
Put it in switch test mode and ran it through everything and did not see multiple switches trip on a single switch. Will try again tonight. Start button passes visual inspection. I shook the machine while in switch test mode the way you should never shake a baby and the start button did not trip. Will look some more tonight when I have more time focusing on that switch matrix. Thanks all!
A new game starts in the video somewhere between 3:35 and 3:50. IJ has awesome animations but in this case they are making diagnosis more difficult.

Quoted from Manny65:

Good clip of the issue - it certainly looks like a shorted diode issue causing the start button to be falsely triggered and hence adding additional players while on the first ball. I mapped the switch activations between 3:35 and 3:50 on the switch matrix, but atm I still can't see a possible rectangle of 3 simultaneous closed switches plus switch 13 (start button) to pinpoint which diode is shorted.
Can you power on the game (which will clear the balls from the idol), start a game but don't plunge the ball and go into switch test mode and take a picture of the switch matrix on the display. Then plays some games to try to recreate the problem - the minute you see the 2nd player is added let the ball drain and again go into switch test mode and take a picture of the switch matrix. It would be good to have a video of this to cross reference but the switch matrix pictures might be enough

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

I fixed it (I Think)
It was a shorted switch underneath the path of adventure. I found the original shorted switch and managed to short another in putting it back together.
Here is the requested diagnosis video.

Here is what the problem is if someone else has the issue

All I have left to fix is a bad opto on the left ramp entrance and a pop bumper bracket that broke today.
Such a fun game when it works!

Quoted from Ashram56:

If any expert on WPC could chime in, that would be greatly appreciated
In a nutshell, I have installed one too many mod on my Indy, which seems to have an effect on 12V power rail (still need to take a measurement though).
This results into the left flipper being excessively weak. If I remove the mod (it's an HD DMD, a derivative of PIN2DMD, higher size), I get back my original flipper power.
Now I could try to fix that through a number of alternative options, but first, I'd like to understand the exact mechanism of failure involved, as I must say I don't quite get it.
Optos are LED. Therefore they have a threshold to turn on, if above it's on, if below it's off. So how in the world could a slightly under voltage on 12V could affect the behaviour of actual power output of the flipper ?
If anyone could chime in, that would be quite appreciated
From there I can determine the best course of action, I can see three options:
- Using an external 12V meanwell PSU
- Replacing the flipper opto boards with alternatives (GLM ? Leaf switches ?)
- Replacing the rectifier and cap on the power board
Thanks and regards

Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Fliptronic, CPU and PW driver all share the same 12dvc. Looks like you are overloading the circuit with a screen that is drawing too much. A pin2dmd should fix your issue, they run pretty light on current.
Where is your screen taking power from, what is the pin out? J118?
I am thinking you are taking current from either J116 or J117?
If so try J118 using which is 12V secondary and not shared by the other boards, make sure your fuse on F116 is good.
Replacing fliptronic with pre era non fliptronic components will not work as your pwr drv board does not support this (unless you have an aftermarket board that has both fliptronic and non fliptronic circuits). Factory driver boards do not have the components to run pre fliptronic flippers (you can add them) if you are handy and know what you are doing. Indy uses revision 3 of the wpc89 which is the latest of this generation and pre fliptronic components were taken off the board.
I am currently building a board that is backwards compatible with all revisions, so I can easily swap the pwr driver board to any wpc era game.
Please confirm where is the screen taking power from and we go from there. You might want to replace the screen with something more power efficient anyways, just a thought. I am also building Pin2dmd at the moment and will have some available soon if you need one.

Quoted from Ashram56:

So to clarify, I had a PIN2DMD in the first place, and replaced it with an HD DMD, which is essentially a high resolution higher size panel (see in the PIN2DMD section on VPuniverse).
So I know full well that the load of this "new" HD DMD is the cause of the problem, since
a/ when I unplug it problem is gone
b/ i can measure a voltage level of 11.8V instead of 12.5V with/without
Now I want to keep the HD DMD... And I need to understand whether the 12V power rail on the power board from BR5 is able to drive this load (lots of amps going in this HD DMD).
I'm piggy backing power from J118 if my memory is correct, but I'll check.
There has been the exact same symptoms described here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/weak-flipper-after-installing-colordmd-12v-unregulated
Note the voltage values, pretty much identical to mine.
I would also like to understand the root cause. Adding a Meanwell PSU is very well within the realm of possibilities, or replacing the rectifier, etc... But I want to understand the exact behaviour, as I don't like applying a band aid without knowing what's behind (and by the way, I have a degree in electronics - although digital electronic, and we're talking analog circuitry here so my skills are rather rusty in this area).
My next step is hooking my scope on the coil just to see what's happening

Quoted from Ashram56:

So to clarify, I had a PIN2DMD in the first place, and replaced it with an HD DMD, which is essentially a high resolution higher size panel (see in the PIN2DMD section on VPuniverse).
So I know full well that the load of this "new" HD DMD is the cause of the problem, since
a/ when I unplug it problem is gone
b/ i can measure a voltage level of 11.8V instead of 12.5V with/without
Now I want to keep the HD DMD... And I need to understand whether the 12V power rail on the power board from BR5 is able to drive this load (lots of amps going in this HD DMD).
I'm piggy backing power from J118 if my memory is correct, but I'll check.
There has been the exact same symptoms described here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/weak-flipper-after-installing-colordmd-12v-unregulated
Note the voltage values, pretty much identical to mine.
I would also like to understand the root cause. Adding a Meanwell PSU is very well within the realm of possibilities, or replacing the rectifier, etc... But I want to understand the exact behaviour, as I don't like applying a band aid without knowing what's behind (and by the way, I have a degree in electronics - although digital electronic, and we're talking analog circuitry here so my skills are rather rusty in this area).
My next step is hooking my scope on the coil just to see what's happening

Quoted from Ashram56:

So how in the world could a slightly under voltage on 12V could affect the behaviour of actual power output of the flipper ?

Quoted from BentleyBear:

Just bought 3 center clear drop targets.
Any suggestions on what i can use to light theese up ?

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:BLUF: What would cause extra players to randomly be added during gameplay?
Thanks![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from Williampinball:

Update part numbers are 31-1773-7SP and 31-1773-17SP right

Quoted from Stebel:

Put pictures of the ones you need.

Quoted from Williampinball:

Update ,I found them at pinball center thanks anyways bud

Quoted from shepP:

Keep looking - pinball center plastics are crap.

Quoted from Williampinball:

Why's that ?

Quoted from shepP:

Images are washed out when lit up and backing can be messed up on them. Search on pinside and you will see everyone saying the same thing - stay away.

Quoted from Williampinball:

Why's that ?

Quoted from Davi:

Few more... You have been warned!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-horror-pics/page/71#post-6627397
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-horror-pics/page/71#post-6628075

Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

those plastics are trash, do not waste your time Williampinball.
Just get in touch with Planetary pinball, they have a lot of IJ plastics.

Quoted from TimBoch:

I used a separate power unit