(Topic ID: 68869)

IJ Williams "You Cheat, Dr. Jones!" Club

By RDReynolds

10 years ago


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There are 11,589 posts in this topic. You are on page 174 of 232.
#8651 2 years ago

The thing with the POA is it is notorious as the broken or janky part of the game if you play it on location. So you finally own one and it's all working and the very last thing you want to do is break it!

At least that's the anxiety I felt until I finally had to change it and realized it was pretty simple.

#8652 2 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

The thing with the POA is it is notorious as the broken or janky part of the game if you play it on location. So you finally own one and it's all working and the very last thing you want to do is break it!
At least that's the anxiety I felt until I finally had to change it and realized it was pretty simple.

This!
Also, To be honest you guys in this thread had a bit concern about the poa before getting my game because all I read here were bad news.
Lo and behold, this thing seems easy to work on and the only reason why it would not work properly is neglect it seems.


I cant wait to keep working on the game.
I am jelous of some of the restos I have seen here and I want that for my game

Question about Mirco pf.
Anybody here got one? Is it going to chip off and bubble like GNR pfs?

I have heard of people sanding the clear off and reclearing.
Is the chipping inevitable ???

I got a spare pf at hand, it is NOS but it is bowed and I do not have high hopes that it will flatten but I can try.

true story/sad story…I bought this game sight unseen mostly because of the nos pf…

let me know if anybody here has experience flattening a pf.

The pf has is near mint otherwise which is a shame.

I have more questions but I am trying to not flood the thread with stuff.

Thanks in advance!

#8653 2 years ago

Pin_Fandango - My experience with Mirco has been with WoZ and DI playfields and also a White Water repro. While they do dimple a lot, dimples don't phase me too much. And yes they can chip too, but that tends to only be in areas getting literally smashed and those spots almost always have protectors you can buy. Overall I'm very happy with their product and haven't experienced major issues.

The clear is not 100% perfectly done in terms of reflectivity and flatness, but if you don't have an eye for it you won't not notice. I didn't notice until I eventually saw them side-by-side with a better playfield. I started taking detailed pictures of the exact same reflections and then realized how a big a difference a well done clear can make... and now my budget is fucked!

The pooling and art coming off seem to be a combination of too much clear coat and over tightening of hardware at the factory.

Since you're doing you're own restore you can make sure every screw is lovingly and carefully placed and should avoid those issues.

#8654 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

This!
Also, To be honest you guys in this thread had a bit concern about the poa before getting my game because all I read here were bad news.
Lo and behold, this thing seems easy to work on and the only reason why it would not work properly is neglect it seems.

I cant wait to keep working on the game.
I am jelous of some of the restos I have seen here and I want that for my game
Question about Mirco pf.
Anybody here got one? Is it going to chip off and bubble like GNR pfs?
I have heard of people sanding the clear off and reclearing.
Is the chipping inevitable ???
I got a spare pf at hand, it is NOS but it is bowed and I do not have high hopes that it will flatten but I can try.
true story/sad story…I bought this game sight unseen mostly because of the nos pf…
let me know if anybody here has experience flattening a pf.
The pf has is near mint otherwise which is a shame.
I have more questions but I am trying to not flood the thread with stuff.
Thanks in advance!

Bowed playfields aren't too big a deal.

Set it on a couple sawhorses and put weight on it for a couple weeks until it flattens out. Put as much weight as it takes to slightly reverse bend it. I use a piece of carpet and old disk brake disks. Weight from a weight lifting set is also good.

Slight bowing is natural as the clear shrinks on one side and not the other, it will flatten out in the game after the playfield is populated and set in the game.

Reese rails are popular as they are hard oak and tend the flatten the playfield.
If you have the means you can also just make your own too.

The original siderails are too soft to effectively flatten the playfield and keep it flat.

A twist is another problem that is difficult to fix.

I have had great success with reverse twisting a bad playfield in a rotisserie with weights and string applying torque.
It took 2 months to flatten out but it worked.

In most cases the warps and bowing can be corrected it just takes time.

Dont apply heat, it does more harm than good.

#8655 2 years ago

If you’re gonna strip a bowed Playfield to straighten it, wouldn’t it make more sense to just replace it with a new one? Mine is a little bowed but when I replace it with the new one, I’ll probably have it restored. Indy problem has to be one of the most difficult pins to completely replace due to the amount of parts. I’m guessing most SuperPins

#8656 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Bowed playfields aren't too big a deal.
Set it on a couple sawhorses and put weight on it for a couple weeks until it flattens out. Put as much weight as it takes to slightly reverse bend it. I use a piece of carpet and old disk brake disks. Weight from a weight lifting set is also good.
Slight bowing is natural as the clear shrinks on one side and not the other, it will flatten out in the game after the playfield is populated and set in the game.
Reese rails are popular as they are hard oak and tend the flatten the playfield.
If you have the means you can also just make your own too.
The original siderails are too soft to effectively flatten the playfield and keep it flat.
A twist is another problem that is difficult to fix.
I have had great success with reverse twisting a bad playfield in a rotisserie with weights and string applying torque.
It took 2 months to flatten out but it worked.
In most cases the warps and bowing can be corrected it just takes time.
Dont apply heat, it does more harm than good.

Thanks for this, this is what I was thinking as well.
The pf has some twist that is easily corrected as I apply weight on the pf with my hand so I am assuming it will be corrected on its own?

As for the bow, it is perpendicular to the player or in other words, it is from right to left, (shortest side of the pf), And the bow seems to be very consistent top to bottom but a little worse right in the center.
I used a straight edge to check, nothing overly scientific.

I will make my own rails, out of purple wood that I have have had drying for almost 2 years now.
The ones in the game are ok but what the heck let’s get some good rails in there.
I might just get reese’s rails if time is an issue, but I should be ok.

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#8657 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Thanks for this, this is what I was thinking as well.
The pf has some twist that is easily corrected as I apply weight on the pf with my hand so I am assuming it will be corrected on its own?
As for the bow, it is perpendicular to the player or in other words, it is from right to left, (shortest side of the pf), And the bow seems to be very consistent top to bottom but a little worse right in the center.
I used a straight edge to check, nothing overly scientific.
I will make my own rails, out of purple wood that I have have had drying for almost 2 years now.
The ones in the game are ok but what the heck let’s get some good rails in there.
I might just get reese’s rails if time is an issue, but I should be ok.[quoted image][quoted image]

Have you reached out to Kruzman and see if he can advise too? I’m sure he’s dealt with this many times.

#8658 2 years ago
Quoted from dmacy:

Have you reached out to Kruzman and see if he can advise too? I’m sure he’s dealt with this many times.

I did actually. I will decide to send this off only when/if I get it straight first.

#8659 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I did actually. I will decide to send this off only when/if I get it straight first.

I honestly believe you can get most of the sagging and warpage out.

It just a matter of where you apply the weights, how much weight, and time of course.

Good results take a few weeks.

Do it sooner than later.

#8660 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Question about Mirco pf.
Anybody here got one? Is it going to chip off and bubble like GNR pfs?

Yes. My Mirco IJ playfield bubbled and the paint beneath it began lifting. Bought it early last year.

#8661 2 years ago

Sorry to hear.
I dont think I would do a pf swap and risk that. I guess I would just send it off to have it reclear.

#8662 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

Yes. My Mirco IJ playfield bubbled and the paint beneath it began lifting. Bought it early last year.

How long did you have the playfield before you did the swap?

#8663 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

Yes. My Mirco IJ playfield bubbled and the paint beneath it began lifting. Bought it early last year.

Did you restore the PF shortly after getting it or did you let it cure for a bit?

#8664 2 years ago

I installed it within a couple months of getting it. I don't know if Mirco's clearcoat hardens over time if I waited longer. It must be the way it's formulated that is causing this issue, I remember someone saying Mirco was working on a reformula. I used Spraymax 2K clearcoat on my original playfield and I don't see any pooling at all, and I didn't wait 6 months to install it. That Spraymax both works and looks very nice.

#8665 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

I installed it within a couple months of getting it. I don't know if Mirco's clearcoat hardens over time if I waited longer. It must be the way it's formulated that is causing this issue, I remember someone saying Mirco was working on a reformula. I used Spraymax 2K clearcoat on my original playfield and I don't see any pooling at all, and I didn't wait 6 months to install it. That Spraymax both works and looks very nice.

Yeah, mirco playfield need 10 months to cure.

If you wait until you see the die back. You should be ok.

Otherwise, you can assemble but dont tighten anything too much.

#8666 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Yeah, mirco playfield need 10 months to cure.
If you wait until you see the die back. You should be ok.
Otherwise, you can assemble but dont tighten anything too much.

Mine is probably on track for a 24 month cure so I should be good?

#8667 2 years ago

That is a very long curing time and I suspect it isnt guaranteed to work… which it could turn into a lot of wasted time to find out it is still pooling after 10 months.

I suspect the clear quality is different du to some restrictions to the type of chemicals available in germany…?

#8668 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

I installed it within a couple months of getting it. I don't know if Mirco's clearcoat hardens over time if I waited longer. It must be the way it's formulated that is causing this issue, I remember someone saying Mirco was working on a reformula. I used Spraymax 2K clearcoat on my original playfield and I don't see any pooling at all, and I didn't wait 6 months to install it. That Spraymax both works and looks very nice.

Interesting. Is Spraymax acrylic? I’m fairly certain today’s clear coats suck partially because paints are all eco friendly

#8669 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

That is a very long curing time and I suspect it isnt guaranteed to work… which it could turn into a lot of wasted time to find out it is still pooling after 10 months.
I suspect the clear quality is different du to some restrictions to the type of chemicals available in germany…?

They seem to be light on the catalyst.

Possibly for production issues with the robot they use.

It just takes longer to cure.

Its ok, just wait it out.

#8670 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Interesting. Is Spraymax acrylic? I’m fairly certain today’s clear coats suck partially because paints are all eco friendly

Spraymax is a 2 part automotive clearcoat.

Dries hard as a rock.

#8671 2 years ago

Ok, it appears to be acrylic. I thought the outlawed this. I used to paint cars in the early 90s before everything became water based. This would make sense why Spraymax works

https://www.spraymax.com/en/products/product/clear-coats-and-spot-blender/2k-clear-coat/

I bet Mirco is using some shitty water based clear which would explain the issues. No matter how long you let water based clear set, it will never be as strong as Acrylic

#8672 2 years ago

I'm looking for the playfield back panel, the wood piece the lost plastic goes on. Does anyone have this for sale.

#8673 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Basement:

I'm looking for the playfield back panel, the wood piece the lost plastic goes on. Does anyone have this for sale.

If you still have the original you can easily make one. It is just a piece of plywood with a couple cutouts.
With that said, up until recently, somebody was selling an acrylic version of this on pinside but I do not see the ad anymore, I presume it expired. This person makes these and sells them and I believe Ricochet has one installed in his IJ.
The benefit of the acrylic piece, I think, is that allow you to illuminate the 'lost' plastic from behind the panel?...

With that said, who sells new aprons for IJ?

#8674 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

If you still have the original you can easily make one. It is just a piece of plywood with a couple cutouts.
With that said, up until recently, somebody was selling an acrylic version of this on pinside but I do not see the ad anymore, I presume it expired. This person makes these and sells them and I believe Ricochet has one installed in his IJ.
The benefit of the acrylic piece, I think, is that allow you to illuminate the 'lost' plastic from behind the panel?...
With that said, who sells new aprons for IJ?

Aprons are unobtanium.

Best to rework your existing and powdercoat it or automotive paint.

#8675 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

If you still have the original you can easily make one. It is just a piece of plywood with a couple cutouts.
With that said, up until recently, somebody was selling an acrylic version of this on pinside but I do not see the ad anymore, I presume it expired. This person makes these and sells them and I believe Ricochet has one installed in his IJ.
The benefit of the acrylic piece, I think, is that allow you to illuminate the 'lost' plastic from behind the panel?...
With that said, who sells new aprons for IJ?

I dont have a backboard at all, so. No. Dimensions to work off of.

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#8676 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

I installed it within a couple months of getting it. I don't know if Mirco's clearcoat hardens over time if I waited longer. It must be the way it's formulated that is causing this issue, I remember someone saying Mirco was working on a reformula. I used Spraymax 2K clearcoat on my original playfield and I don't see any pooling at all, and I didn't wait 6 months to install it. That Spraymax both works and looks very nice.

did you use Spraymax in the rattle can?

#8677 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

did you use Spraymax in the rattle can?

Yes, Its pretty slick stuff. Easy to use and you dont need any equipment other than standard PPE as its just as hazarous as any cyanide based paint.

Easy to apply and dries hard with noticeable die back in about 2-3 weeks. A further coat can then be applied if needed.

Assembly hardness in about 4 to 6 weeks, fingernail can still dent it.

12 to 24 weeks and its rock hard.

All in all its on par with most automotive clearcoat finishes.

#8678 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Yes, Its pretty slick stuff. Easy to use and you dont need any equipment other than standard PPE as its just as hazarous as any cyanide based paint.
Easy to apply and dries hard with noticable die back in about 10 weeks.
Assembly hardness in about 4 to 6 weeks.
All in all its on par with most automotive clearcoat finishes.

wow that is a game changer. I was ready to buy expensive equipment to clear coat my PF, small compressor, paint sprayer gun, etc...
How long does the can lasts once it is activated?

#8679 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

wow that is a game changer. I was ready to buy expensive equipment to clear coat my PF, small compressor, paint sprayer gun, etc...
How long does the can lasts once it is activated?

They say 24 hours but the process on a playfield leaves little unused paint.

It takes 3 to 4 cans and 3 or 4 days to do it.

Theres tons said about it in the spraymax thread.

Ive used it many times and really like the perfect results.

At the most maybe 1/2 a can gets wasted.

#8680 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

They say 24 hours but the process on a playfield leaves little unused paint.
It takes 3 to 4 cans and 3 or 4 days to do it.
Theres tons said about it in the spraymax thead.
Ive used it many times and really like the perfect results.
At the most maybe 1/2 a can gets wasted.

I just happened to stumble on that thread. thanks

#8681 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

wow that is a game changer. I was ready to buy expensive equipment to clear coat my PF, small compressor, paint sprayer gun, etc...
How long does the can lasts once it is activated?

Let’s be clear here. Nothing beats a proper Binks sprayer and canned clear. But it does come at a cost and you need a very dedicated area to spray in. Personally I would have an auto shop do it if you don’t already have a setup. But if this worked for somebody here then go for it. Practice on something else first though. Spraying is an art and takes steady quick strokes including the proper distance.

#8682 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Let’s be clear here. Nothing beats a proper Binks sprayer and canned clear. But it does come at a cost and you need a very dedicated area to spray in. Personally I would have an auto shop do it if you don’t already have a setup. But if this worked for somebody here then go for it. Practice on something else first though. Spraying is an art and takes steady quick strokes including the proper distance.

Oddly spraymax is fairly forgiving since you always have to sand it out, every part of the process.

#8683 2 years ago

Have lots of experience spraying, not worried about that.
It is mostly having/not having the proper space and tools that will most likely see a 1 time use.

I do intend to repaint my kitchen cabinetry so might as well aim for that and have a excuse to set up an improviser booth at home

#8684 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Oddly spraymax is fairly forgiving since you always have to sand it out, every part of the process.

So you use a long block wet sand and buff out the clear?

#8685 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

So you use a long block wet sand and buff out the clear?

Yep, or an orbital finish sander.
But always wet.

Including the final mirror finish coat.

Clearcoat dies back a lot.
50% or more of the sprayed thickness.

Its good to flatten out the clear and buff it out after die back appears.

Then one more coat of clear if you wish.

HEP sees this die back and re-clears most brand new playfields to flatten them out.

Die back makes impressions around the inserts that trap wax and grime.

Its best to addtess this when you see it and before assembly.

#8686 2 years ago

I think the mix that hep uses has a few advantages. One is, less die-back. He seems to be able to clear and polish and start reassembly with much less wait time. I think his clear formula is also much harder and he goes out of his way not to put it on too thick. When I first started using Spraymax I made the mistake of putting it on too thick, combined with not waiting long enough for cure time and die-back.

#8687 2 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

I think the mix that hep uses has a few advantages. One is, less die-back. He seems to be able to clear and polish and start reassembly with much less wait time. I think his clear formula is also much harder and he goes out of his way not to put it on too thick. When I first started using Spraymax I made the mistake of putting it on too thick, combined with not waiting long enough for cure time and die-back.

Chris waits 3 to 6 weeks before assembly.

This has the advantage of not cracking but rather bending the clear when assembling.

You have to be really careful.
He's a pro and has the right feel for it.

The finger nail test tells all, as when its safe to reassemble.

When he is done with a game its usually about 10 weeks in.

He starts playfields immediately when working on a new project.

He an expert on workflow.

#8688 2 years ago

If the POA stutters in game but not in test mode, then is the problem most likely the motor opto board? Does anybody know the part number for those U optos? I can get it to and figure it out but maybe someone already knows. I know I can get a replacement board but just the optos would be cheaper.

#8689 2 years ago
Quoted from spidey:

If the POA stutters in game but not in test mode, then is the problem most likely the motor opto board? Does anybody know the part number for those U optos? I can get it to and figure it out but maybe someone already knows. I know I can get a replacement board but just the optos would be cheaper.

Stuttering is mostly dirty or failed optos.

So yes the opto board under the POA.

You can certainly just replace the optos. Marco has them.

They are the 4 wire ones.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5490-13451-00

Its $22 with shipping for optos.

$31 to replace the 30 year old board.

https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-600-0426-00

Replace the board.

#8690 2 years ago

Would try cleaning / checking flipper optos first if is working in test mode.

#8691 2 years ago
Quoted from Hans_Saris:

Would try cleaning / checking flipper optos first if is working in test mode.

I can check that easily be swapping left/right boards, as it stutters to the right but not the left.
I'll also clean those and the motor optos but my experience is that cleaning doesn't work and it's always a failed opto.

#8692 2 years ago
Quoted from Hans_Saris:

Would try cleaning / checking flipper optos first if is working in test mode.

Def this

#8693 2 years ago

Further testing revealed the stutter occurs in test mode as well. So I believe that points to the bridge driver board (A-15946), correct? I also tested both the flipper optos and the POA optos in test mode with a piece of paper and didn't see any flakiness.

#8694 2 years ago
Quoted from spidey:

Further testing revealed the stutter occurs in test mode as well. So I believe that points to the bridge driver board (A-15946), correct? I also tested both the flipper optos and the POA optos in test mode with a piece of paper and didn't see any flakiness.

I have been having this same similar problem with my POA. Working on it yesterday and it appears that my problem is/was with the flipper opto's. That is, it wasn't the optos themselves, but the way the plastic broke the beam(s) and that the flipper button(s) push the plastic out far enough for the optos beam to be seen. Had to do some modifications, one needed the plastic ground down more so that the beam could be seen and the other had to heat and bend the plastic some. Once I did this and tested it many times continuously my POA did work very well.
Hope this suggestion works for you.....Mike

#8695 2 years ago

I found it strange that pressing the flipper buttons did not trigger the upper flipper switches. Granted there aren't upper flippers, but I thought the switches would still register. Maybe it's just coded that way in software.

Sold my JJP POTC to get this, and although POTC is an amazing game, the Fliptronics flippers are just so much better. I had to crank the right flipper to max on that game to get up the left orbit, whereas on IJ, the orbit shots go blazing fast. More satisfying mechanically. Still, if JJP were to remake that game, I'd be back in (but sell something other than IJ).

#8696 2 years ago
Quoted from Mikespinball:

I have been having this same similar problem with my POA. Working on it yesterday and it appears that my problem is/was with the flipper opto's. That is, it wasn't the optos themselves, but the way the plastic broke the beam(s) and that the flipper button(s) push the plastic out far enough for the optos beam to be seen. Had to do some modifications, one needed the plastic ground down more so that the beam could be seen and the other had to heat and bend the plastic some. Once I did this and tested it many times continuously my POA did work very well.
Hope this suggestion works for you.....Mike

Helpful thanks, because I am also getting POA stutter when tilting left so I'll also take a look at the flippers. I'm thinking it might be a hair or what you said blocking the optos, I doubt my optos or board are bad.

#8697 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

Helpful thanks, because I am also getting POA stutter when tilting left so I'll also take a look at the flippers. I'm thinking it might be a hair or what you said blocking the optos, I doubt my optos or board are bad.

You should have new anarchy flipper boards in that, but you never know...

Maybe the plastic opto interrupters are warping?

If the interrupter doesnt cleanly break and cover the opto beam you can get stuttering. It acts like a dirty opto.

Very early versions had metal going over them to address warping on the white plastic ones.

The new black plastic ones warp less but still have to be trimmed and fitted sometimes. Or they are not molded right and are not flat.

Other issues are the flipper buttons dont extend far enough to break the beam cleanly. This is due to random hole depths.

Slightly sanding the tabs shorter/narrower? can help if the interrupter is bottoming out cleanly when you are done.

A little is a lot on this.

#8698 2 years ago

it seems like I am having an issue with the right flipper.

This coil had to be replaced as it was overheated and swollen and had to be replaced.

However, even with the new coil I noticed the following:

It seems to have a bit less holding power than the left
If I touch the coil, I can feel the current going through it (it sounds stupid but I feel whatever this is, magnetism? no idea, the magnetic field or the current but this is not noticeable on the left flipper.

The holding power is ok, but if a ball comes down at speed I get a micro flip and a huge bounce off the right flipper.

The right coil heats up a lot faster than the left, when on hold. In fact, the left shows no signs of heat when on hold.

EOS is new and adjusted properly, also working on switch test.

The left coil does not have these issues however holding power seems to be about the same and micro flips are not noticeable during play.

last but not least, I tested the right coil WIRED TO the left flipper and the results are the same as described above.

Bad new coil?

#8699 2 years ago

double tap by mistake! sorry

#8700 2 years ago

Perhaps, but my gut is saying power driver board issue. Perhaps a transistor is going but hasn't blown out completely, I forget which one is the one for the right flipper but you could test that.

Other thoughts: Coil is the correct rating? Coil has correct diode on it?

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Creekside Hideaway, LLC
Toppers
$ 123.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
Toys/Add-ons
€ 160.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pino Pinball Mods Shop
Toys/Add-ons
$ 219.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Lit Frames
Decorations
$ 75.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PFX Pinball Mods
Toys/Add-ons
11,250 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Trumansburg, NY
$ 20.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
2step’s shop
Toys/Add-ons
$ 59.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
Toys/Add-ons
$ 41.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
Interactive
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
Sound/Speakers
14,000 (OBO)
$ 59.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
Toys/Add-ons
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
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