(Topic ID: 185444)

IFPA Charging Fees for Tournaments in 2018

By Eric_S

6 years ago


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  • 166 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Joe_Blasi
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

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#36 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

so how many event have you run and what effort have you vested in helping build the sport the past years? Just curious as to where to couch this opinion?
As one of the most prolific TDs in the past 5 years in the entire midwest, I can tell you that you dont understand the dynamics of operating or running events.
If you think an operator can go to a bar owner and say "hey man, I am going to need $20 in order to run a tournament here you need to pay for it since you make so much off the beer" you are not experienced in this world.

I have run PLENTY of tournaments in CO, and operated games over 10 years, and am pretty much vested in the sport. (so I guess my opinion can count, and you won't try to diss me like you did Russell)
I also played in Nationals and won CO state this year, so you can try to tear down my opinion on that.
Nearly every bar that is played at in Colorado adds $50 to the prize pool, and the bar owners have never complained.
Perhaps if you had a reasonable conversation with one, you would have better luck.
The cash prizes at State have been crap, I look forward to seeing that increase and add to the prestige of the event.
Also, this will weed out the bullshit buddy tourneys that are "just for fun", and I think that's a good thing.
Play for some cash, make it interesting, and encourage actual location play. Not an insider boys club in Bob's garage.
Keep your WI tourneys all to yourself, have them non-sanctioned, they should be anyway.
Someone will prolly put one on and collect that $1 , and people will play and pay, and be ranked.
Plus side! Now you might not have other states playing in your SCS and winning it.

#55 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

at 25% donated to nationals, that means WI would be donating $750 to send a player to Nationals. F that!
you get all 50 states in and get them that involved and you are talking over 30k in prize pool for the same elite group (with the ocassional new to the scene guy).

This year at Nationals, I didn't know at least half of the players in the field. It was NOT the same 'ol "elite players".
And with the new structure, I think you could pay down close to all the way. So the WI State Champ will get some of the money back to WI anyway, and possibly WAY more than the $750 you project.
And a nice big prize pool for state, paying all 16 players.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from EmLover1970:

I think the easiest way would be that you can still have IFPA sanctioned events, but you either pay the fees for all (or most of the events) or you opt out of the SCS series. You can have your own State Championship and ranking system, just not IFPA endorsed. And everything would continue as normal.

Not all players would agree to opt in or out, who makes the call for the entire state?

#94 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

odd, I was not contacted and I am pretty sure I run the largest charity event in the midwest region...
so in short... IFPA comes before charity events. check

Odd, I wouldn't have contacted you either. All you ever seem to do is argue and protest anything they do.
And now try to put this spin on it and try to make them seem anti-charity?
A new low even for you.

#137 6 years ago

I hear KME is gonna qualify through WI for Nationals, allowing the Sharpe's to cash in IL!

#141 6 years ago

Events that I run, I will plan to just take the money off the top of the league or tournament prize fund, and keep entry fees the same.
So most players won't even notice a difference, and all players will be counted for IFPA.
The money will come off the top of the "elite players" winnings!
I will NOT be giving a dollar back to anyone that doesn't want to be counted for rankings.

#256 6 years ago

Aren't there any Golden Tee machines in WI? To play online, you must pay an extra dollar, and you are elegible to win prizes and cash. Curious how this would be any different.

#540 6 years ago

Perhaps, if a states ifpa fund goes over X amount, more players are entered (and paid) to play at the state tourney finals?
Only problem then becomes time and format.
I still like only 1 player per state for nationals.
I also think raising the # of events needed to attend to qualify for state is a good idea, 5 seems like a good number, if a state has at least x tourneys held.
Charity events should be held for charity, not wpprs.
I think this will help clean up all the abuse of the system, milking of points that are not really earned.
I think this is the result of people abusing a free system.
I think Wiexit is a great idea, bye!

#564 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Only seems right to just publish the info and let people see what would have been that reality in 2016.

Except that the rule changes will change what "would have been", because people won't be having so many tourneys that are just to get points for them and their buddies, so numbers WILL change.
So why worry about comparing apples and oranges?
What happened last year (and this year) won't happen next year, you and many others have already said that, and I think it's a good thing for the system.

#720 6 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

So simple to ask for a 5.00 admission/resgistration, its silly otherwise......

I wouldn't pay it. Then I can play B division! That's the problem, and I think it would be a MAJOR problem.
The rankings would become so inaccurate, and tons of players would refuse to pay, ruining the entire system.
And if they still rank people for handicapping purposes, then why would I need to pay?
People need to let this idea go, it just won't work.
The problem I see, is if some major events (say PAPA/Pinburgh) decide they don't want to pay. Then what?
I guess an exemption for major tourneys could be implemented, but Hiltons head would explode at that point.

#729 6 years ago
Quoted from tayamo:

1) Those of you who have been personally attacking Josh for this change need to look themselves in the mirror and be ashamed of yourselves. You've belittled Josh, called him greedy, and a host of other stuff that he doesn't deserve. Josh (and Zach - and others) work their tales off to help bring lots of fun and joy to a lot of people who love competitive pinball. Get off your high-horses and stop making personal attacks. It only makes you look like an ass.
2) Josh did reach out to a bunch of people to talk about this idea. I'm currently ranked in the 3000's, but I'm a State TD, and I run most of the tournaments held here in South Carolina. There was a long and robust discussion with all of the State TD's about this topic. While there were many of the same reservations, but I can tell you that the discussions there were much more civil. Again, I say to those being dicks - Stop! If you have concerns or reservations, then express them. Don't impugn the integrity of others - that's just not right. Also, for those of you who think that Josh hasn't thought this through, that's ridiculous. I am quite, quite certain that Josh has given this far more thought than any of us, so stop with the holier-than-thou approaches.
3) Those of you with reservations, I get it. But, come on now. It's a dollar. You spend that to play one game. Those free tournaments are most certainly NOT free. Venues don't put on free events. They almost always get compensated. Whether it's $1 for a game, or $10 for booze or food. Come on now, let's be real. You offer a "free" tournament, but I'd venture to say in 99% of those tournaments, folks are paying for play, paying for food and drink. Asking them to pay and extra $1 is not a big deal. Period.
4) I think it's a great idea, myself. I love the idea of having a much larger prize pool for the State Championships. In fact, I think it's far, far more righteous to do that than the way it's done now. I think that if someone competes and wins the State Championship, that they should be able to go to Nationals regardless of their financial standing. I believe that so strongly that last year, as the State TD, I personally paid for the winner to go to the National Championships. I spent $500 of my club's money doing that, because it was the RIGHT thing to do. Of course, I didn't do that this year, because Trent came down to SCarolina, kicked our tails, and I knew he was making the trip anyway, so I didn't subsidize his trip - sorry Trent! By offering a much larger State Championship prize, this dilemma gets solved - so I'm in full support.
5) All that being said, I do understand that there may be some legal aspects that are problematic - especially in WI, I guess. I'm no lawyer, so I can't speak to that.
6) Finally, this is a comment for Whysnow. The personal attacks and venom you've directed at Josh, and your self-important attitude really make you look like jerk already. But what really gets me is that you attack Josh, question his integrity, and are generally a jerk to him. But, then you turn around and beg him for the details and specifics, including formulas, etc. for computing WPPR points. You're essentially asking him to give you IFPA Intellectual Property. What? Really? You hurl abuse at Josh, but then want to take his IP. That takes an awful lot of gall, dude! I have say, I give Josh a lot of credit for being kind to you and offering to provide it to you.
Finally, I want to thank Josh, Zach and all those who contribute their time to the IFPA. You guys rock! Thank You!
Patrick Pietras
Palmetto Pinball Club

#751 6 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Seems like a lot of work to be donated, maybe each player could donate $1 per event to the coder to create and maintain the ranking system.

LOL

11
#786 6 years ago

I think everyone needs to stop looking at this as a $1 "personal fee" to themselves. It's really not.
It's a fee to any tournament that wants to be included in the rankings, and be held as an "endorsed event".
It happens to be $1 for each player that event submits.
The event is the same, and each can choose to be counted or not.
You as a player are not violated! Get over it!
Choose to play in events or not, an event is endorsed or not.
This rule will most likely only change the # of endorsed events, others will just go on as usual, with no points if they don't or can't support the tournament fee.

-1
#806 6 years ago
Quoted from Slim64:

Why shouldn't they supply the majority of their own prize pool?

Because we have for 20+ years, and the amounts will only get so high.
By collecting it from ALL endorsed events, you make those events gain respect, you add to the SCS pool, you add to the Nationals Big $$ pool, and newer players can feel a little more of a "pro" experience while playing an endorsed event.
All while they are helping the sport grow.

#882 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

We also had 4 new/er faces last night and I spoke to them about potential changes and asked for their POV. All of them said they would not come out/ as often if they knew there was a mandatory fee to be rated/sanctioned event.

I'm sure they did, after you explained it in your special way to sway their decision before they made it.
..Or they just agreed, to shut you up and play pinball.

BTW,
Me: Having a pinball tourney tonight, $5 entry, want to play?
Joe Newb: Sure
Me: cool, here's a couple credits, I'll let you know who you play when you're up. Good Luck!
....And they have returned, again and again and again
My main yearly, Pin-toberfest! had over 60 players last year (9th year) and a prize pool of over $2,000
But that's just how ColoRADo rolls....

#898 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I made no insult towards DNO. He point out that he just charges the $5 to play and nothing else. In other words he gives the minimal information.

Joe Newb doesn't care about the petty details of IFPA, rankings, payouts, etc..
And if he does care, I will explain fully:
We have 20 players, so the bar is chipping in $50, $20 goes toward sanctioning this tourney for world rankings, and $30 will be added to the 100%+ payback to the players. So first place should be around $100 ($20 second, $10 3rd, bar swag 4th)
BTW, this is actually how my tourneys go.
And I don't give "minimal" info on purpose. I find most Newbs are more interested in format, game selection, tourney rules and such.
But yeah, I should mention the extra money, now that I think about it.

1 week later
17
#1103 6 years ago

All these free tourneys, and brand new players, shouldn't really be counted towards the "world rankings" anyway IMO.
I have always thought the rankings have been diluted too much by allowing just anyone to put their event up and get points. I had wondered if having the ifpa choose the only events that would be used to decide rankings would not be a better way to determine the rankings.
But the ifpa has done it the way they have, and TDs have figured out how to abuse the system and pump up their events to get inflated points that they don't deserve, time and time again.
So this is a great way to trim the fat, and tell people to be a bit more serious, while getting rid of the Superleagues and free point frenzies that plague the system.
And everyone acting like they just can't possibly hold their free events now! Just hold the damn event and don't register, guess what? All those new players won't give a shit about rankings, and never would have, especially if people don't go around complaining about NOT getting any wpprs.
Pool leagues aren't free (VNEA,BCA, etc), bowling leagues aren't free, dart leagues aren't free, the list goes on...
If people want to compete in pinball, want to be considered a world ranked player, have a shot at "state" or "nationals", then they will pay.
If you're not that serious and don't care, go find some local freebie stuff or play dollar games with your friends.

#1186 6 years ago

That suppressed player page is awesome!
I've never seen it before, thanks for sharing.

2 weeks later
#1246 6 years ago
Quoted from sandersj:

Keep the comments coming guys, I'm looking for an excuse to cancel the events.

Sounds like you have enough support to go ahead and cancel.
What with all the bitching from the people you care about, about the bitching from the people you don't care about.
Add in the bitching about the bitching, about the bitching. Case closed.
Now everyone can quit bitching.

#1254 6 years ago
Quoted from sandersj:

Actually, in regards to regretting comments, this was all just a little Pinside social experiment by me to see if I could find a good excuse to cancel my scheduled Saturday match play events. Yes I posted some negativity, but didn't mention any names, and holy crap people piled on and proved my point. Way to go guys, feel manipulated yet?

Well, I don't think I know you, but if this is true that's being more of a jerk than the oringinal post.
You called out all the non-locals as being bitchy and ruining the locals good time. So that wasn't true?
So then you lied about them saying they were that way, but get offended when they stand up for themselves?
Have fun with you and the locals, pretty sure the people you decided to fuck with won't feel like coming back. Way to promote the spirit. *sarcasm*
Maybe you should try your experiment on your locals too, see how they appreciate it.

6 months later
#1497 6 years ago

Has anyone noticed that Bowen is now a suppressed player?

2 months later
10
#1566 6 years ago

Lol, Wisconsin player #28,,
1 event
Congrats on that dollar Josh!
Get it framed.

#1591 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I dont care about paying the $1 myself.

Really? you seem to get a bit worked up over it.

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