IFPA Charging Fees for Tournaments in 2018

(Topic ID: 185444)

IFPA Charging Fees for Tournaments in 2018


By Eric_S

1 year ago



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There are 1606 posts in this topic. You are on page 31 of 33.
#1501 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Also, my first post in this thread didn't age well.

You were right that (almost) nobody here cares. It's just that the 1% who do are really, really, really vocal about it.

#1502 10 months ago

Someone else posted this on another forum.
I thought it was pretty funny.

IFPA (resized).png

#1503 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Someone else posted this on another forum.
I thought it was pretty funny.

You don't look anything like that Hilton!

1 month later
-3
#1504 9 months ago

Any inflation adjustment announcements? Or, perhaps a change due to a reduction in revenue led by the suppressed player extraordinaire.....

20171223_203010 (resized).jpg

#1505 9 months ago

I just did my first tournament with the $1 fee, it was easy enough, and no one at the tournament seemed to have a problem. The TD is making it free for 1st time entrants (he's spotting them the $1).
I did find out after the tournament started that we have lost a few regulars due to the fee, which is unfortunate. But it looks like one of the venues we play at is going to be a sponsor, so hopefully soon we won't have to worry about charging the $1 at all.

14
#1506 9 months ago
Quoted from Stosel:

I did find out after the tournament started that we have lost a few regulars due to the fee, which is unfortunate.

One can only imagine how much fun they had for a dollar somewhere else that night.

#1507 9 months ago

If only people were as passionate about non-Pinball issues as they are about this one.

#1508 9 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

One can only imagine how much fun they had for a dollar somewhere else that night.

The buck saved and not redistributed to IFPAs friends is a buck that can be tucked to help a poor girl pay for college. I know which I find more fun.

#1509 9 months ago

$1 buys me one game on a Ghostbusters Pro at the nearest location with any pinball (just that one)

What's the big deal here? I'm missing it.

Quoted from Stosel:

I did find out after the tournament started that we have lost a few regulars due to the fee, which is unfortunate.

I hope they picked out something good for dinner out of the Dollar General frozen section.

#1510 9 months ago
Quoted from jfre81:

$1 buys me one game on a Ghostbusters Pro at the nearest location with any pinball (just that one)
What's the big deal here? I'm missing it.

I hope they picked out something good for dinner out of the Dollar General frozen section.

Yeah, you really are missing it.

#1511 9 months ago

We had no drop in the number of players between the December 2017 event and the January 2018 event.

We even had some players that tried to hand me $6 instead of $5 and got confused when I said, "Don't worry, we're not charging an extra dollar for this.".

They proceeded to say, "Ok cool, I thought that was a thing", handed me $5 and started practicing for the night.

#1512 9 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Any inflation adjustment announcements? Or, perhaps a change due to a reduction in revenue led by the suppressed player extraordinaire.....

pasted_image (resized).png

#1513 9 months ago

sad that some still dont realize how off putting it can be to have a condescending attitude toward the community when you are also asking them for a $1 to help grow your business model.

It was really interesting last month when we had a couple of players hang out after a monthly meetup and got on the topic of $1 entry fee for 2018. It was apparent to me that many of the entry-middle range caliber players were very clear that they would likely begrudgingly pay the $1 because they like to hang out with the other local pinheads and play pinball, but see it as a barrier to entry and don't like paying in for something they stand no chance to win or benefit from.

Some of the high level players that stand a very good chance of personally benefiting from winning a large prize pool at SCS were incapable of understanding why anyone was unwilling to pay into 'their' prize pool. They kept saying the "it is just $1" comment and I could see the other lesser skilled players just pulling back from the conversation every time the condescending line was tossed in their face.

Pretty sad to call the same people that have helped to grow the sport "haters" just because they dont agree with the current experiment. It is insulting at minimum and taken personally by others.

#1514 9 months ago

The deed is done, Hilton. You may as well sit back and watch it all burn for now. Come back to the table in late 2018 when the IFPA is desperate for ideas to resurrect the charred remains of competitive pinball.

#1515 9 months ago

I don't care aboot the dollar, but it's a new year and haters gonna hate has to die. Please stop, you're a grown man.

#1516 9 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

The deed is done, Hilton. You may as well sit back and watch it all burn for now. Come back to the table in late 2018 when the IFPA is desperate for ideas to resurrect the charred remains of competitive pinball.

just sharing some advice >> never a good idea to make fun of the same people that have actively participated in and helped the scene grow; and even worse to purposefully turn off the new players with condescending remarks towards them.

The experiment has been in effect for a while now, but it does not mean I have to just shut up and walk away from something I enjoy. Seems to be silly to say that.

11
#1517 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Pretty sad to call the same people that have helped to grow the sport "haters" just because they dont agree with the current experiment. It is insulting at minimum and taken personally by others.

I'm all for mature high level debate/discussion of how this is going, especially as the year progresses.

Having someone post:
"Any inflation adjustment announcements? Or, perhaps a change due to a reduction in revenue led by the suppressed player extraordinaire....." (along with an only $2 more sign) with us now being 4 days into the new year is a bit condescending to me.

I did find it a bit funny, and answered back in a similar style to that poster. No harm intended (as I'm sure his post was also all in good fun).

Looking forward to seeing how the Wisconsin ranking system works out for you guys . . . is that live yet? (this comment was also done all in good fun).

#1518 9 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

it's a new year and haters gonna hate has to die

I, for one, am a big supporter of all things T-Swizzle.

#1519 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

Looking forward to seeing how the Wisconsin ranking system works out for you guys . . . is that live yet? (this comment was also done all in good fun).

nope. I was not capable of learning how to program it myself and I did not find anyone else interested/able to do it either.

I have abandoned running sanctioned competitive pinball events for the general public. I am still committed to host the IFPA SCS for next year and may run a few events geared only towards competitive players on private machines, but I am done with running IFPA events currently at public locations.

This experiment was an eye opener and we have gone from running 4+ events per month to hosting 1 IFPA event at our locations and then allowing some players to run a second that wanted to maintain that one as IFPA. Effectively we have cut our commitment in half for 2018 and it has encouraged us to change focus.

This compromise came after lots of discussions with the local player base on what they enjoyed and wanted in local pinball. We are shooting for a variety of events to now try and appeal to a variety of players.

#1520 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have abandoned running sanctioned competitive pinball events for the general public. I am still committed to host the IFPA SCS for next year and may run a few events geared only towards competitive players on private machines, but I am done with running IFPA events currently at public locations.

This experiment was an eye opener and we have gone from running 4+ events per month to hosting 1 IFPA event at our locations and then allowing some players to run a second that wanted to maintain that one as IFPA. Effectively we have cut our commitment in half for 2018 and it has encouraged us to change focus.

This compromise came after lots of discussions with the local player base on what they enjoyed and wanted in local pinball. We are shooting for a variety of events to now try and appeal to a variety of players.

So I have a request that you can help me with (seriously).

My main concern is not really the number of IFPA sanctioned events dropping, but whether events are actually disappearing altogether (that worries me a ton if people were ONLY running events for WPPR's).

If you can keep me posted on how your overall turnout is for your non-IFPA events, whether it's down "overall" from last year, about the same, or you even GREW the number of people that played with it being non-IFPA, that's some data I would love to get my hands on.

#1521 9 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

I, for one, am a big supporter of all things T-Swizzle.

I don't know a ton aboot her, but everything I have seen I hate. But that shouldn't be overly shocking.

#1522 9 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I don't care aboot the dollar, but it's a new year and haters gonna hate has to die. Please stop, you're a grown man.

I know, seriously people. Kick it old school with 3LW instead.

#1523 9 months ago
Quoted from imharrow:

I know, seriously people. Kick it old school with 3LW instead.

Ahhhh....
"Swift also does not believe that one can simply copyright the ethos of players and haters or “monopolize the idea that players will play and haters will hate.” It’s just a fact. A truth. A lifestyle, even."

God I hate her even more now.

#1524 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

So I have a request that you can help me with (seriously).
My main concern is not really the number of IFPA sanctioned events dropping, but whether events are actually disappearing altogether (that worries me a ton if people were ONLY running events for WPPR's).
If you can keep me posted on how your overall turnout is for your non-IFPA events, whether it's down "overall" from last year, about the same, or you even GREW the number of people that played with it being non-IFPA, that's some data I would love to get my hands on.

sure thing

#1525 9 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Ahhhh....
"Swift also does not believe that one can simply copyright the ethos of players and haters or “monopolize the idea that players will play and haters will hate.” It’s just a fact. A truth. A lifestyle, even."

God I hate her even more now.

This makes me want to use a different meme than the one I have chosen. My apologies 100X on this

#1526 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

So I have a request that you can help me with (seriously).
My main concern is not really the number of IFPA sanctioned events dropping, but whether events are actually disappearing altogether (that worries me a ton if people were ONLY running events for WPPR's).
If you can keep me posted on how your overall turnout is for your non-IFPA events, whether it's down "overall" from last year, about the same, or you even GREW the number of people that played with it being non-IFPA, that's some data I would love to get my hands on.

I've had 2 players already ask if they can work something out for Tucson Pinball League because they want to travel to Phoenix to play the Starfighters monthly. Both events are the first Saturday of the month and SF will get over 40 players and TPL will get ~15. I'm not going to stop TPL, because it's not just for people collecting WPPRs, but it will impact TPL WPPRs if players pass to do other events that are larger.

I'm not saying this is a $1 thing, and I also doubt it could be a top-20 for SCS thing since I recognize there is little end result difference between uncapped event count or top-20 going to SCS. It's just a fact of PHX growth crushing Tucson growth and I live in the losing corner.

Feedback none the less I guess. I'll keep running 36+ events a year and trying to grow the player base.

#1527 9 months ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I've had 2 players already ask if they can work something out for Tucson Pinball League because they want to travel to Phoenix to play the Starfighters monthly. Both events are the first Saturday of the month and SF will get over 40 players and TPL will get ~15. I'm not going to stop TPL, because it's not just for people collecting WPPRs, but it will impact TPL WPPRs if players pass to do other events that are larger.

From the 30,000 feet level this seems to be the same level of interest as pre $1 fee, just a shifting of WHERE that interest lies (assuming both your TPL and the Starfighters events are IFPA sanctioned).

Definitely sucks for your event specifically, but I'm glad to see that the number of active players across Arizona doesn't seem to be impacted negatively overall so far.

#1528 9 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I don't know a ton aboot her, but everything I have seen I hate.

Your canada is showing! I don't know much about her, as a person. Just enjoy the music.

#1529 9 months ago

On a serious note, I plan on playing more IFPA (specifically Illinois) events this year, because instead of paying for the pleasure of getting destroyed at SCS, I'm guaranteed money if I qualify. Sounds pretty sweet.

Yeah, I know, I'm paying it in $1 increments throughout the year instead, but it feels better the new way.

#1530 9 months ago

This is how its been for years but the other way around. Tucson had all kinds of pinball compared to Phoenix. Now it has just leveled out. There are many more people in phoenix and should have many more events.

Quoted from desertT1:

I've had 2 players already ask if they can work something out for Tucson Pinball League because they want to travel to Phoenix to play the Starfighters monthly. Both events are the first Saturday of the month and SF will get over 40 players and TPL will get ~15. I'm not going to stop TPL, because it's not just for people collecting WPPRs, but it will impact TPL WPPRs if players pass to do other events that are larger.

I'm not saying this is a $1 thing, and I also doubt it could be a top-20 for SCS thing since I recognize there is little end result difference between uncapped event count or top-20 going to SCS. It's just a fact of PHX growth crushing Tucson growth and I live in the losing corner.

Feedback none the less I guess. I'll keep running 36+ events a year and trying to grow the player base.

#1531 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

From the 30,000 feet level this seems to be the same level of interest as pre $1 fee, just a shifting of WHERE that interest lies (assuming both your TPL and the Starfighters events are IFPA sanctioned).
Definitely sucks for your event specifically, but I'm glad to see that the number of active players across Arizona doesn't seem to be impacted negatively overall so far.

I don't think anyone in my regular group is concerned about the $1 because most of them that tried made it to SCS in 2017 and will likely do the same in 2018 when there is a payout. I do see it as a head scratcher to some of my less skilled players because they won't make it. But, I put word out that I was looking for a tournament sponsor and I think I found one, so it may all be moot. I run free to enter events though, so I can't just reduce the payout and keep the fee the same.

I have a carrot for my events though, as small as they may be. Everything (that I run) but TPL counts towards the city championships, so keep showing up or you won't make that and I have a good start on tiers of prizes for that.

#1532 9 months ago
Quoted from Jdawg4422:

This is how its been for years but the other way around. Tucson had all kinds of pinball compared to Phoenix. Now it has just leveled out. There are many more people in phoenix and should have many more events.

For sure, and that puzzled me. PHX has a 5X population advantage and yet it was only APPL and Zapcon up there compared to 50+ events in Tucson. Tracy deserves a lot of credit for what has happened up there. I'd love to have a 40 player event, ever. I think the most I've ever done is 19. That snowballs because more players allows for me to buy more/"better" games and hopefully attract more players. That may never happen here, but if I want to try for SCS this year I will have to go to PHX for sure.

#1533 9 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

On a serious note, I plan on playing more IFPA (specifically Illinois) events this year, ...

I hope I can get out more too. When they mentioned these changes I set aside 1 dollar each week to save up for this.
Thank goodness for 10 cent returnables!

#1534 9 months ago

Tracy definitely deserves A LOT of credit!!! She got everyone more motivated just by her being so motivated and has really grown the scene for pinball in AZ!

Quoted from desertT1:

Tracy deserves a lot of credit for what has happened up there.

#1535 9 months ago

Just FYI from our database guru:

January 2017 : 280 Tournaments - 227 were US and Canada Tournaments
January 2018 : 373 Tournaments (scheduled) - 302 are US and Canada Tournaments

#1536 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

Just FYI from our database guru:
January 2017 : 280 Tournaments - 227 were US and Canada Tournaments
January 2018 : 373 Tournaments (scheduled) - 302 are US and Canada Tournaments

out of curiosity, what % of tournaments never get submitted even when they were on the calendar? not necessarily regarding the fee, just in general do like 99% of events get submitted?

#1537 9 months ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

out of curiosity, what % of tournaments never get submitted even when they were on the calendar? not necessarily regarding the fee, just in general do like 99% of events get submitted?

It's roughly a 10% rate of events submitted "never happening".

#1538 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

It's roughly a 10% rate of events submitted "never happening".

But the new TD interface lets them cancel those instead of bugging you. There is even an "are you sure" message. The new interface is pretty nice.

#1539 9 months ago
Quoted from desertT1:

But the new TD interface lets them cancel those instead of bugging you. There is even an "are you sure" message. The new interface is pretty nice.

This was one of the nice positive byproducts of the endorsement fee. Having to work in the payment module and making sure that was easy and transparent for our TD's allowed us to re-invent the whole process.

The IFPA Tournament Manager was the end result, and puts far more control and information at a TD's fingertips. It also helps to auto-communicate many of the questions that we get from TD's (specially have you gotten my calendar submission? have you gotten my results I don't see it posted yet? . . . we're now able to show that status throughout the whole ecosystem.

#1540 9 months ago

When might the 2018 SCS standings go live? There's a certain screenshot I'd like to take before Starfighters points get added to the mix.

#1541 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

Just FYI from our database guru:
January 2017 : 280 Tournaments - 227 were US and Canada Tournaments
January 2018 : 373 Tournaments (scheduled) - 302 are US and Canada Tournaments

Wouldn't that be a result of growing pinball the year prior (2017), and not a result of implementing a fee?

#1543 9 months ago
Quoted from desertT1:

When might the 2018 SCS standings go live? There's a certain screenshot I'd like to take before Starfighters points get added to the mix.

It’ll be sometime next week. This has been completely redesigned as well. We’re very excited to launch it

#1544 9 months ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Wouldn't that be a result of growing pinball the year prior (2017), and not a result of implementing a fee?

I don’t know how to explain it. I definitely don’t think it’s because of the fee that the numbers are up.

Perhaps the normal year over year growth is large enough to capture the loss of events that are choosing not to pay the fee, and the net result is we’re still showing growth.

#1545 9 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

Your canada is showing! I don't know much about her, as a person. Just enjoy the music.

No

#1546 9 months ago

taytay.gif

#1547 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

I don’t know how to explain it. I definitely don’t think it’s because of the fee that the numbers are up.
Perhaps the normal year over year growth is large enough to capture the loss of events that are choosing not to pay the fee, and the net result is we’re still showing growth.

Someone smarter than myself made a good point on Facebook.

SCS events are scheduled for January this year instead of February like it was last year. That's roughly 50 events that are counting from the timing difference.

#1548 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

That's roughly 50 events that are counting from the timing difference.

plus side events and secondary events that are combined with the day?

#1549 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

plus side events and secondary events that are combined with the day?

Definitely!

#1550 9 months ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

Just FYI from our database guru:
January 2017 : 280 Tournaments - 227 were US and Canada Tournaments
January 2018 : 373 Tournaments (scheduled) - 302 are US and Canada Tournaments

The real measure will be the rate of change in Jan 2019.

The growth above is on the "old" free system.

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