Your welcome " sarcasm " you just sounded like a petulant child. You might as well of said I am going to take my ball and go home . I know that running tournaments are thankless jobs but don't bag on the people whom come and support them and your endeavors .

Come on guys ,$1 to help support the pinball community is not the end of the world . It is good to have the big nationals even if you cannot attend . It helps the pinball world to grow , look at who won this year . A 13 year old kid . It's proof enough that you can beat the best in the world if you just show up . Glad to be a part of that . And wouldn't mind the $1 every tournament to see that happen again . Also Jeff don't think negative respond is the answer to help the community now or in the future , was glad to come up and play there and meet the ppl there even though I came in last . Also don't think bashing Jeff is the answer either for comments he may regret later . Everyone gets burnt out on the hobby at one time or another and its best to walk away untill your not burnt out and feeling better . I host tournaments myself in bham and it sometimes gets to me also ,lots of work and $with little to no rewards . To me the rewards are seeing the 50 ppl enjoying there passion for pinball at the tournament , like seeing the vid of the 13 year old wining the Nationals . Anyone is welcome to my tournaments I host even if your going to bitch alittle it's just part of competition . Especially when house balls keep a coming to you . Lol

Actually, in regards to regretting comments, this was all just a little Pinside social experiment by me to see if I could find a good excuse to cancel my scheduled Saturday match play events. Yes I posted some negativity, but didn't mention any names, and holy crap people piled on and proved my point. Way to go guys, feel manipulated yet? There will still be IFPA match play events at my location, just not on Saturdays so that everyone from all over the state can participate. We'll do them on weeknights and keep it local and fun.

Back on topic and back to my original post, IFPA charge fees? Please do, they provide a great service to the community and should be compensated for it.

Well, I don't think I know you, but if this is true that's being more of a jerk than the oringinal post.
You called out all the non-locals as being bitchy and ruining the locals good time. So that wasn't true?
So then you lied about them saying they were that way, but get offended when they stand up for themselves?
Have fun with you and the locals, pretty sure the people you decided to fuck with won't feel like coming back. Way to promote the spirit. *sarcasm*
Maybe you should try your experiment on your locals too, see how they appreciate it.

Anyone that had been in pinball a while knows LOTRbreath & street are 2 of the most genuine, nicest guys in the entire scene, bar none.

An effort was made to support and broaden pinball in the state. Not a single issue was ever raised in person at any point with anyone. The net result was what you see here. Simply put, experienced players come, support me, try to make the tournaments have close to legitimate IFPA standards, but I get pissed because they are good offer ideas to make the tournaments better.

Retreating to a forum to slander guys who are well known within the community, should gain you lots of credibility & respect Jeff.

Jeff , what I see is that it's hurts the chances up your way for the ppl that wanted to play in state championships and nationals , Saturday's are the best days for multiple ppl to show up and raise the point values for that to happen . Sorry you feel that way for the ppl that might of wanted the chance for state championship rewards . Maybe in the future you can work things out for everyone up your way to compete

Yup, maybe I'm an a$$hole, but I'm an a$$hole that operates a pinball arcade that's tired of throwing Saturday match play events and looking for a reason to pull the plug. And don't get me wrong, lots of the out of towners are awesome people and will be seriously missed. Anthony Dickson in particular, watching him demolish a bistro burger is a sight to see. I really enjoyed him attending. And much thanks to Chris Warren for helping me with the non-intuitive match play software. But after two Saturday match play events and having to deal with all the negative comments about the behavior of a certain few people and the out of town crowd in general just makes it not fun for me and the locals. In fact, very few locals even show up. A lot of the stuff is pretty subtle, and I seriously doubt they're even aware they're doing it. But we just don't act that way here. Different pinball culture I guess.

And thanks Bhampinwiz for the well reasoned comments. If there were more like that we might still be having a tournament next Saturday. If there had been one "we're sorry you're upset and really appreciate you hosting the tournaments what can we do to help?" comment but... see above.

Everyone please have a nice day. Gonna go watch my son's baseball game and then go play some pinball.

Wow, just wow......so you purposefully slander folks with lies in a public forum, in hoping to stir things up to meet YOUR agenda????

Fellow Alabamians in Huntsville, my sincerest condolences to y'all if this is the kind of person you have putting on your events.....

"No I'm not really a douche... I only play one on pinside"

Color shone... you can't take it back now.

Spot on analysis.

Can someone please start a "Jeff Sanders from Huntsville, AL is the antichrist" thread and get us back on topic please.

At least the truth eventually came out.

Perhaps there was a way to pass this along to another member of the Huntsville group and just collect the coin drop from the events. Maybe you didn't want to be the guy who just cancelled everyone's fun and thought you'd blame the "out-of-towners" as a scapegoat. Nobody thinks you're the antichrist, but your actions and words over the last couple of days have seriously squandered what was once a budding opportunity for a great competitive pinball culture in this state.

All you're giving is vague "evidence" of complaining and game bashing. I know for certain that not a single game was abused in any way throughout the course of the tournament or warm-ups. There was one game, Monopoly, where the tilt was in fact too sensitive. I heard multiple mentions from BOTH sides about that particular game throughout the day, but it was all in jest and nobody (aside from you apparently) let it ruin their good time.

If you didn't want to run the tournaments, you should have just manned up and said something. I have no doubt that someone else in Huntsville would have been happy to take some of the load off your shoulders for everyone's benefit. It's disappointing for "the only ones you care about" who looked to you for leadership and now they literally don't have tournaments anymore.

I hope that one day this can all be resolved, but it will certainly take some time to heal the wounds you've caused.

You started the drama, you should make the thread. Lol

Actually I can legitimately and easily challenge the accuracy of most/all of your statements but won't waste the time. We will have PLENTY of IFPA tournaments moving forward. Just none on Saturdays. I dangled some bait with a negative comment and the vitriolic hatred came out pretty fast. I tested the audience as I was looking for an excuse to cancel these tournaments based on my own opinions and complaints from my locals and tons of reasons to cancel were handed to me on a silver platter. Have y'all figured out yet that maybe there's some out of town people that the Huntsville crowd just doesn't like to play with?? My arcade, my choice, I expressed some general dis-satisfaction, and had anybody (other than pinwiz) been anything but hateful Alabama might have 6 more state wide tournaments annually. You guys have fun and rock on.

Id recommend talking with the specific individuals and if they cant improve their behavior, just ban them from your location.

We're waiting.

Well you certainly can't please everybody, but there are a lot of good folks up there that I would love to play with again sometime. It's a real shame it won't be anytime soon.

It certainly is your choice to alienate whatever groups you want, but you're forgetting you're not the only arcade in the state. You're not even the only arcade in Huntsville.

Although we would love to have as much pinball in the state as possible, I'm pretty sure we'll be perfectly fine without your tournaments like we always have been. You're acting like you're the only show in town.

What's worse is that you're trying to play it off like you had this planned the whole time. Everyone can see through that scheme. Nobody "plants the reaction seed" in page 25 of an online forum thread. You got called on your BS and weren't expecting it. Just admit that you showed your ass and we can all move on.

I think if you actually documented instances of this, people might understand. Right now it's just general and unsubstantiated claims by yourself only. You're seeing a problem that the out of towners don't see, and there's likely an amicable resolution if you'd just sit down and work out the issues.

Sounds like he did not cancel it, just moving it to a night that's not convenient for out of town people. If he truly has a stable of people who like casual competition, I can see friction developing between them and the more hardcore folks. Talking it out should produce favorable results.

It is also not good for competitive players to alienate a location, even if there are a couple alternatives. Competitive players still largely outnumber good locations just about everywhere... (except maybe Chicago, Cleveland, PNW). Alabama isn't exactly bustling with arcades...

Ok, that was funny.

I completely agree. I was just making the point that life will go on without his tournaments. We went up there with the intention of fostering a good relationship with the Outlanes group so we could help move the needle throughout the state. I left there with the feeling that we had accomplished that goal, but now my friends and I are being used as scapegoats and seen as the bad guys. The whole incident is really unfortunate, and I have a strong inclination that Jeff's comments do not accurately portray the feelings of his comrades. I got the sense that everyone - on both sides - had a great time while we were there.

I do think this can be solved by talking it out, but I don't want to be publicly humiliated when there is no evidence.

You just don't get it Jeff. When you make generalized statements about "the out of towners", there were only 6 of us at your Sept 2016 tourney and 10 of us at your March 2017 tourney, so we know you are speaking of us. We did nothing wrong. If you felt we did something wrong you should bring it up in a constructive way. Instead you bash us on a public forum. I understand that you have a great deal of time and money tied up at Ronnie Rayguns, and some may PERCEIVE that the games are being handled roughly, but I assure you it is the norm in competitive pinball. I heard one slap of a glass which was noted and I believe the guy apologized(who is Bhampinwiz whom you so highly speak of). Mostly the opposite of what you say is true of your tilt settings. The games are on smooth concrete with no rubber cups and loose tilts. When you try to make a save the game slides 6 inches or more and I assure you it is a surprise to the player when it happens. This is easily correctable. This is NOT abuse of the games.

The bottom line is what you stated in a text(yes, those get shared around as well). There are two completely different pinball cultures in Huntsville and Birmingham. Ours is well established and consists of players of all skill levels who enjoy the competition aspect of pinball. Yours is really just ramping up and consists of mostly beginners/casual players who are into it for the social aspect. Our league is hosted in a mall, yours is hosted in a brewery. Our league has several highly ranked players. Yours has none. Perhaps these cultural differences can be overcome, perhaps not. But for the mean time, you are getting exactly what you want and that is having just your local players at your events. You will not see any of us up there for some time and that suits us all just fine.

Sincerely, Chris Warren.

Thanks for making the decision easier and easier. I had a bunch of other comments typed in but just backspaced over them. Really, you guys have fun.

There is no bad behavior. It's fantasy to create an excuse. Nothing more.

Putting on a tournament is for the most part a thankless job. No matter how much time you put into making everything the best it can be, most of the public and behind the back feedback is nit picking on how it could be better or downright complaining. Fortunately there are always people who really appreciate what it takes to put on a good tournament and let me know. It is those people that I put in the extra hours of preparation for.

Thank you for admitting you dug your own hole so deep that you literally have no idea how to get out. We'll see you when we see you.

I didn't dig a hole, I dug out of a hole, have fun guys. I really don't think you people realize how disposable the whole IFPA thing is to an operator. I want to support pinball and IFPA but if it becomes a hassle.... see above.

Maybe the excuse you could of used to cancel the tournaments was because its your arcade and your choice?

We appreciate it!

Best of luck to IFPA and pinball players in ALL states. This should be fun.

Hello Alabama pinhead people - please take this discussion/arguement to its own thread or your regional thread.

There is a very important issue being discussed in this thread and we want to try and keep it generally on topic.

Please do not call each other ass hats and what not as well, let's keep it civil...things posted here are here forever and you all will see each other again one day, don't say things here you wouldn't say to someone's face.

Thanks and enjoy your weekend (and stop raiding Louisiana for college football talent...please).

As a recently relocated AL player with a very low IFPA ranking, I support more pinball for all, nice machines, and both casual play and competition with people from all skill levels.

I'm also more than happy to pay an upcharge for ranked tournaments.

Sorry to derail the thread. For the record, I'm totally for the IFPA charging a dollar per event. I don't think it will effect us nearly as much as some other states, so perhaps my views are a bit skewed. Plus, it's only on a trial basis. I think the only other way to garner big payouts would be through sponsorship, and the audience simply isn't there yet. I'd love to see pinball take off in similar fashion like poker did a big ESPN production could do wonders for us.

I agree with Mr Huffman, my only concern is the transaction count and the payment mechanism, but neither of those concerns are anything insurmountable. Just something to be worked out.

Um....he did a little more than show up. He's a serious high level competitor.

I think it's lost in translation on how great Escher is. He is one of the best in the world, no doubt. And he's just going to get better. He's has more high level experience than most on pinside I'm sure. I mean his ifpa player number is 1605... meaning he was the 1,605th person to be ranked by the IFPA and had results going back to 2008.

https://www.ifpapinball.com/player.php?p=1605

Kevin and Ryan did a great interview with Adam and Escher on their podcast for those who don't know the story.

https://soundcloud.com/user-859738069/episode-23

I watched Escher beat Bowen and knock him out of the Lyons Classic.

That was in 2014. Escher was only 11 years old.

rd

Slamming glass after a drain is always abuse. Sliding games generally is not, but when its obvious the games aren't setup to disallow it, maybe stop doing it for that session? Just playing devils advocate...

Metallik, I appreciate what you are doing, but the mods said keep it on topic. The $1/event has been discussed adnauseum so I have nothing else to post here.

Everytime someone bangs glass or excessively slides a game pay the TD a $ to send to IFPA. Then boot them from the tourney for abuse.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, pinball glass can easily take "abuse," even something so horrible as a slap.

I get much more upset if someone sets a drink on the glass of one of my games, the potential for damage is a thousand times greater.

Just stay away from the edges! Fortunately these are not accessible when the glass is in the machine.

Man you're rating would plummet.

Who actually cares about rating? It is irrelevant to one's ability.

banging the glass is abuse. Sliding a game is not if it doesn't set the tilt off. If you dont want people to do it then set your tilts accordingly. Its location pinball and slap saves are going to happen its part of pinball.

what about when the ball slams the glass?

You must be very tall; but you should probably put your pants on anyway.

lol we're just putting the final touches on the payment module of our website that TD's will be using, so I'll go with "no".

That overwhelming silence you hear is the sound of acceptance

(Wisconsin not withstanding, although I'm sure Hilton has his emulated wppr system for WI ready to go at this point... it's been like five months)

Well I know I am the only TD in WI who has said they will run IFPA events in 2018 so I won't necessarily say the "sound of acceptance" is overwhelming here.
There are very little fee based tournaments in WI so I have been told NONE of them will run IFPA events in 2018 which I see as true.

Midwest Gamic Classic by far the biggest tournaments in WI = NO
MadRollin Pinball 78-80 people = NO
Madison and Milwaukee monthly events = NO

A guy in a small city running events in his basement = Yes

People in WI are NOT seeing the validity of the whole WI IFPA seen running out of my basement, which I totally understand, so yeah I am taking a little flack from this senario.

In all seriousness it will work itself out. Hilton has our entire database of results to have his Wisconsin model all ready to go for 2018. WI players should have a variety of motivations to keep playing competitively outside of the official SCS process. FUN should still and always be the priority.

I've received multiple emails from ops in Wisconsin that plan on registering their events for IFPA sanctioning. The only way to see how this plays out is to let the 2018 season do its thing.

We do have a couple of potential SCS tweaks up for debate right now (discussion is over on Tilt Forums - http://tiltforums.com/t/suggestion-for-2018-scs/3163).