It took me about a week to figure this out, but as the first alternate, I'm praying for the birth of a child. Win/win, and I wouldn't feel guilty about sliding up a spot.

Similar in Colorado but for different reasons. We had a PAPA circuit event, and Worlds on consecutive weekends (and lots of large annual tournaments from local arcades during that time) - so tons of out of state (and country) players ended up with top spots. 35th is currently the last slot.

This makes a lot of sense.

This feels kind of shady. I understand that people have earned the right to play in different states, but this is kind of gaming the system isn't it?

This also feels kind of shady. Of course you always want to play against people worse than you, but you're going to have to beat these better players one way or another. The state finals aren't even worth that many points...so really what's the difference in being 4th seed in one state and 6th somewhere else? Either way there are quite a few good players you'll have to go through.

By shady, I don't mean cheating. It's within the rules obviously. More like: it goes against the spirit of...something.

I'm curious to see how the new point system plays out.

In the end, how many players are we arguing about, and aren't these some of the best players (if they qualified for multiple states)?

If we're concerned about people on the bubble, and having to declare without knowing if they will make it in, I'm sure there is a fix for that (like you declare for multiple states but must play in the one which you are the highest seed). If the declare dates are a month out, and everything is submitted at once, a computer can figure out what's what. The bubble people will still have 3 or 4 weeks advance notice.

And if there is concern about player/organizers having an advantage, we could certainly set up an electronic submission process for this where no one would know anything until all declarations were made. (I'd even volunteer time helping to code this).

This is my first year, and I'm not good enough (yet) for it to matter to me (and I'm not within driving distance of out of state tournaments). But I do find this all very interesting. Obviously I think the goal should be for the state championship series to help grow interest in pinball and encourage local tournaments.

That said, if the players here in Colorado are super focused on trying to make the state championship, they're not talking about it out loud. Seems like just a happy bonus for most. And the people playing in the league that I'm starting tomorrow, the majority of them have no idea what WPPR points are, or that they'll be earning them.

Personally, the point system and the state championships did make me attend more events than I otherwise would have. So, technically that did increase the size of the pie, so to speak. But I was already obsessed.

That's an interesting point.

What if points awarded in majors did not count for eligibility towards state championship(s)? I love Trent, he's obviously an amazing player, should be able to play in any tournament he wants, and this is not a knock at him at all...but it looks like he would have qualified in 12 states. Should he really be able to represent any of those 12 as state champion? Is that good for the state championship series? Does he even want the title "Florida State Champion"? Hypothetically: if he played circuit events exclusively, should he even be competing in a state championship - since he only played 1 event in 10 different states?

Since majors are so heavily weighted, isn't the IFPA World Championship essentially the championship for players winning majors & circuit events? Why have those people crowd out locals grinding away at dozens of tournaments in their home state?

This probably isn't even a real issue - I'm just thinking out loud.

Sorry, I shouldn't have been projecting what it means to everyone else. I'm not even sure what it means to me!

That's a good breakdown. So mostly, it's just the number 3 category that is being discussed in this thread. I'm sure most won't argue with that being a perfectly valid motivation, but if people in groups 1 and 2 are feeling screwed over by group 3 (which, I imagine, is a much smaller sized group), then there will be some complaining.

Josh, I really appreciate you commenting in this thread. It's certainly not necessary. I'm not even trying to complain, just discussing, and now feel guilty about it because I'm sure you've got better things to do.

This is badass. Can't wait to see it in action.

This wasn't a slight towards Florida, I don't know anything about the players there. I just picked it because it's not his home state, and not adjacent.

Unless pinball tournaments grow by several orders of magnitude, you're going to have to travel far for big events. If you're not willing to travel hours for events, then you're at the mercy of where you live and the pinball scene in the immediate area.

If a few hours is too far for SCS, then why go - nationals is going to be too far to travel anyway, right?

Take this with a grain of salt: most of my neighboring states don't even have an SCS.

Solution: let's keep growing pinball.

This is really surprising to me. What is it about Nationals that puts it (at best) 5th in your priority order of which out of state tournaments you are willing to travel for?

If growing pinball is priority #1, then we should focus our time and energy on pinball players who have played in 0 or 1 competitive events. Adding tiny clauses and complications to the existing IFPA/SCS structure will have pretty close to zero impact on any of them.

I just started a league, and 12 of the 17 players have never been in a league before. A few of them primarily play on their iPads. None of them has any idea about WPPR points, the IFPA, or even that by playing in the league - they're going to show up on the website, with a score and a ranking.

For months I had been posting flyers, spreading the word through social media and other channels, contacting friends (whose own interested in pinball was started/cultivated by me at some point in the last year and a half). I've been a very visible presence at the local barcade where I operate the machines - talking to players, showing them tricks, showing them how machines work, running tournaments, and starting a league. I've talked regulars into joining - people who had seen the flyers and ignored them.

I totally understand your point whysnow, I really do. And I appreciate that you're trying to improve the system (if not rallying against it). If the current structure is so offensive that you're inclined to start a new series/system - which players is that going to affect? Certainly not the ones I've mentioned above, who I'd argue are more important to the growth of pinball.

Because of the SCS, overall I played in many more events this last year than I otherwise might have. Once I got closer to making the cut however, I actually *stopped* going to the tiny local monthlies...and made sure I had enough time to go to the bigger events. And after dozens of events, ultimately 28% of my WPPR points came from one single game of South Park in a side tournament. This new WPPR system is going to make a big difference. This is starting to feel like beating a dead horse, since there is a new system in place designed specifically to re-align incentives in a way that promotes more, and more local tournaments.

That isn't to say that just because there are other more important fish to fry, that we shouldn't also look at other things to improve. But it's pretty clear that in this thread there is an overwhelming majority that support the current system.

Anyone can do whatever they want if they don't like the system, but the growth will come from the players who aren't even aware there is a system. That's who I'm going to put my energies towards.

I'd appreciate it. It's not like this is a tournament that anyone can enter. The 16 have been narrowed down from (potentially) hundreds of players that spent a year playing tournaments and leagues to get there.

You're allowed to express whatever opinion you want, but once it becomes clear that you're just trolling, people will get pissy.

That's so cute that you participated.