So, this is what I comprehend the question to be... "Regardless of the spin or rationalization I use to justify it, would I allow myself to rip off (pay vastly below market) another human being." Note: While I have not considered the 70217 extreme examples of this statement, I will answer in the context of quoted question..... Ok, If they don't know, or don't take the time, or "deserve it" in any other form, it still is ripping off* someone. I would answer "no", I could not do it. I would tell that person the value of the pinball, and I don't have that $$ at the moment, so yes, I would walk away empty handed and feeling great about it. I recently saw a fairly sought after title on CL, and noticed it was priced very low for the title, and it was due to the old "adjust failure". I emailed the gentleman, and walked him through the three presses of a button which got him "fixed". He sold the pin for double what it was listed at the time that it was listed as "broke". It was still a steal for whoever bought it, as this guy had it for most of its life, and hardly played it. I couldn't sleep if I took advantage of another person on purpose- it ain't right, no matter how ya slice it. Fire away, brethren!

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"One can justify or rationalize taking advantage in many ways.
We have all been scammed, shammed and done dirty by some of the people we have dealt with.
It is a poor excuse to use that as a reason to take advantage of another person."

Well said.

I remember "the deal" (most of us have them, the overpaid for pin, the time ya got duped etc etc) I learned from. Local guy took me to the cleaners on an Xfiles machine. Don't misunderstand, I love the machine, its my favorite (oh god here it comes now!) but I was duped. My fault- yes indeed. I didn't "know" at the time. Should've researched a bit more. Doesn't change the fact that I wont ever buy from the guy again or put myself in any situation where I am relying on him having high brow integrity- and I like and talk to him a lot. I was new to the hobby, excited, and wanted a new machine. He knew what he was doing, and again it was my fault, but it doesn't make it any less true. At the simplest form- "getting mine", "taking advantage", "they are stupid" or whatever spin you put on it still is an individual "don't care about anything but myself" attitude, and I try to avoid that attitude in any situation. I wouldn't do it to the MM owner. Some of you would. Doesn't make you evil, just different than me. That's allowed and appreciated. I was, however, raised "others first", and integrity is all you can take with you, and right or wrong, I "use" that mantra in these situations. One thing we can all agree on (unless you're so cool you have never been ripped off in your early days because you are awesome and did the research some of us idiots had to learn to do) that we didn't appreciate it when we finally realized we were duped. At all. Our fault YEP. So..... If someone leaves their wallet in my restaurant, which happens all the time, I should just keep the $$ because they are stupid for leaving and should have doublechecked before they left... Stupidity or uneducation is absolutely a reason to exploit someone and feel good about it. Its my "right" and "duty" to teach them a lesson and "get mine". They should've known or taken steps or done research to the dangers of wallet carrying or whatever, right? And rationalize away as you will, but it is no different at the very core.

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Nope, not in my opinion because you made an educated decision. I have a couple grails too, and I too gladly overpay for them. You look back and do not care- and that wont ever change. On my lesson learning "deal" I love the pin, but I know now that I could have gotten it for much less and we BOTH, seller and buyer, would have been happy. Once I was educated a bit more, I know I overpaid severely. Shame on me, yep. Its principle, not cash. I don't need the cash or I wouldn't have spent it. But I now know he "got more" or "overcharged" or "ripped me off" or whatever you want to call. My fault, yep, and quite the accepted behavior it would seem. If it's so accepted though, I wonder now when I bring up that deal he won't look me in the eye. He feels guilty or squeamish because I now know what he knew or something. He doesn't like to talk about it and its visible. Yep, shame on me. Still like the guy, but also now know he'd buy my Grandma's (she has dementia, so it could happen) wedding ring for ten bucks because "she offered, she shouldn't have offered" in a pinch.

BUT, some people view it entirely differently (myself, and a few others who have expressed similar thoughts), and those are the type of people I want to purchase, sell and trade with... Again, not making others with different beliefs evil, just different... Not the who as much as the how- like minded thoughts on "fairness" and "value" and how things are done regardless of parties involved. And yep, its totally our responsibility to try and do that. And our "fault" when we don't.

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I agree with Miguel completely. The guy "knew what he had" and Im totally okay with that!! I agree (while Im still waiting, it WILL happen) that cool deals come your way- a dude just wants it gone, moving overseas, brother's neighbors dad knows you fix pins so he gives ya one- all that stuff implies knowledge by the seller of their actions- and in my examples I personally would MAKE SURE they knew, like "Wow, man, you know you could sell this for $$$ and youre giving it to me??" etc- and that stuff is fantastic! Love those stories. Im just answering from the perspective that in this scenario the seller has no idea the value and may even be a jerk.

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The NEW Golden Rule
"Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.*

* (except when thou art "getting yours"... go ahead, you deserve it!)

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That's a no brainer- I don't get to "decide". I'm not the decidor (lol, George Bush) I let the seller decide when I disclose the the nature of what he is doing. Seller gets to decide. And I don't get to "save him the hassle of collectors, or decide to give an extra this or that and/or mysteriously slip him a 20 or any other thing like that to justify to myself because Im not comfortable doing this. I actually find it strange that more people aren't getting this right now. Its really just the simple principle of treating people right. No offense intended to anyone, we are who we are. I know Im a bit "right of center", but sheesh, I didn't think I was that far out there. After I tell him? I dunno, I cant tell you what happens next. (except that it ain't Candid Camera or Hollywood- Im pretty dang sure I'm not leaving with the pin, which is o.k.)

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