If you are in on MG or RAZA..


By rai

3 years ago


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  • 21 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by rai
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

I am curious, to know what owners think about the pre-orders of Jpop's games.

I bet many/most would NOT have pre-ordered these games 34 months ago, the time to pre-order (if ever) is after a Lebowski 'on the rug' reveal. In other words, when you can see a close to production flipping pin. In other words if Jpop was making these pins, the time to have sold the pre-order would be after he was 80-90% done pin. Meaning the game is playable but may need some minor work (like WOOLY).

When we order blind such as when people ordered MG or BHZA (now RAZA) all we knew was a vague theme and even with RAZA that was not 100% formed. If you heard JJP was making Hobbit or DP was making TBL, that is not really a lot of information or any information to buy a pin from, now after they have been revealed people can make a more informed decision.

What if you don't like WoZ or WOF or Mustang or AP (whatever pin) say you played them and just don't like the shots or the flow or the style of play. What's to say the completed pin MG or BHZA doesn't play 'like' WOF or some game you dislike?

The idea should be for the manufacturer to make a game like TBL, WOOLY, or Predator and show it around and let people see it and then take pre-orders.

The Jpop pre-order was a shot in the dark. It's not BBB which people could see, it's not MMR which people know the rules and layout. It's a totally up in the air design.

Knowing what you know now, I don't think anyone would have sent him money 34 months ago. But my question is, if today he offered you a refund, or if he opened these games up for pre-order for the first time. Would you send him money today? (or if he offered you a refund would you accept it? Knowing that you are now 34 months closer to the end?).

#2 3 years ago

Besides the poll question, what do you think Jpop did wrong or could have done better? What could he do today to make things better for the owners?

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Besides the poll question, what do you think Jpop did wrong or could have done better? What could he do today to make things better for the owners?

I dunno but would start by reading the entire thread. Seems like transparency, reality check and believable timetable would be the bare minimum.

#5 3 years ago

I just don't think I have the patience or confidence for the boutique pin business model. As much as I love JPop's designs and the recent reveal of TBL, I'm afraid the furthest I'm willing to go in the custom market is for mods/toppers. Too much money for all the drama and uncertainty.

#6 3 years ago

Tough call for me. I really want both pins. I'm going to stick it out even if I was able to get a 100% refund today.

The Jpop experience did kill my desire to ever pre-order another pin.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

when people ordered MG or BHZA (now RAZA) all we knew was a vague theme and even with RAZA that was not 100% formed.

Most people don't realize that MG got an even bigger theme change than BHZA/RAZA. Just the name stayed the same.

#8 3 years ago

I feel slightly more encouraged after reading StevenP's post on the other thread, so I'm willing to wait it out for a little bit longer. It doesn't look like I have much of a choice anyway.

#9 3 years ago

When you mention "34 months ago" you must be referring to RAZA.

Magic Girl was announced 42 months ago. July 2011.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from dgposter:

I feel slightly more encouraged after reading StevenP's post on the other thread, so I'm willing to wait it out for a little bit longer. It doesn't look like I have much of a choice anyway.

Really? Ughhh, he raised even more questions for me. His post was just more of the same old crap we have already heard and when pressed has provided no solid details.

#11 3 years ago

i would like to see what the real time frame is on seeing things done. nothing has been accurate so far. a little more communication would be nice. getting no replies on messages sucks.

#12 3 years ago

83% would take a refund at this point, hope John gets his act together sooner rather than later.

1 week later
#13 3 years ago

I'd probably try to auction my spot (if I had one) just to get liquid again. Would set a reserve below amount paid (I haven't paid anything). How big a haircut I was willing to take is debatable. That is one interesting angle, that has not been over explored.

Good luck guys on whatever you decide to do. imho - anyone willing to shell out more than a few thousand bucks at this point - is INSANE!

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

When you mention "34 months ago" you must be referring to RAZA.
Magic Girl was announced 42 months ago. July 2011.

I think it was 2010 not 2011.

#15 3 years ago

I'm in on RAZA though I wish I wasn't right now. I don't have much choice but to try and be cautiously optimistic at this point. With what little I know, I would guess that the biggest mistake JPoP made was deciding re-invent everything instead of using standard Williams or Stern parts as much as possible for his machines. He's shown us Zidware coils, PCBs, etc., and spent more time worrying about patents then getting a pin out the door. Meanwhile, while he's been fiddling around, 8-10 other pin makers have sprouted up, JJP put out LCDs, Stern upgraded their system, PPS found a way to remake Williams' greatest hits, everyone started using LEDs, Walking Dead stole most of the zombie customers, etc. I'm not sure he gets that, though he should after seeing DP blow him out of the water at Expo with their TBL reveal.

#16 3 years ago

I wouldn't have pre-ordered if you told me then it would be 2015+ I'd be waiting for. I also suspect today if you told me the real answer of when I might get my raza, 2016 or 2017 by the time 100+ machines were built, I'd take the money and run as well if it were offered.

#17 3 years ago

I was in on RAZA but got out in time to get my refund. I decided to get out of RAZA, Predator and MMr all around the same time.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from marksf123:

I was in on RAZA but got out in time to get my refund. I decided to get out of RAZA, Predator and MMr all around the same time.

The predator guys are starting to feel the same pains as us JPOP guys! The waiting list they had has most likely evaporated and the first guy to request a refund and not get it is gunna start a JPOP style riot.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

The Predator guys are starting to feel the same pains as us JPOP guys! The waiting list they had has most likely evaporated and the first guy to request a refund and not get it is gunna start a JPOP style riot.

Maybe a similar pain, but i'd argue jpop hasn't shown evidence that he's even close to the stage predator is currently in. At least predator is a game people have played at the shows with a full featured ruleset.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Maybe a similar pain, but i'd argue jpop hasn't shown evidence that he's even close to the stage Predator is currently in. At least Predator is a game people have played at the shows with a full featured ruleset.

Somewhat agree, but the last time I played predator it felt more like a home built Proto type (not even close to ready for prime time)

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Maybe a similar pain, but i'd argue jpop hasn't shown evidence that he's even close to the stage Predator is currently in. At least Predator is a game people have played at the shows with a full featured ruleset.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Somewhat agree, but the last time I played Predator it felt more like a home built Proto type (not even close to ready for prime time)

I was also on Predator pre-order. But Kevin didn't bring it to Allentown (2014) when he did bring it 2013 (I didn't go that year). So I was hoping I'd be able to play it first.

After the initial year or so when Kevin was on this site and posting videos and answering questions. He began to pull back and completely ignore us. This type of behavior does not make me feel confident. I'm glad I bailed on Predator.

Also for Predator, I believe it was due out in 2013. So, I figured why take the risk on a no-name guy in a basement with endless delays when I can buy real pins such as B/W for the same money or a Stern pro for same or less money.

The real kill shot (to me) was when Stern released IM VE. Which to me is a better theme, better artwork, proven title, just as cheap as Predator plus I'm playing it 3 weeks after it was announced. Glad I didn't wait for Predator, although it does sound cool in certain regards such as the un-load mode, but overall it did not seem worth the endless wait.

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