(Topic ID: 227121)

If the ball isn't against anything, will a nudge alter the trajectory?

By mystman12

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by MrSanRamon
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    #1 5 years ago

    So I've been having a discussion with someone else about this, and now I'm really curious. If you nudge a machine while the ball is in an open space and isn't touching anything but the playfield, will that alter the ball's trajectory? This is assuming you don't move the machine's feet at all and it returns to its original position after the nudge.

    I'm under the impression that it really doesn't, at least not noticeably so. Even if the speed at which the machine returns to its original position is different from the speed of the initial nudge, I feel that both movements are fast enough to where the ball just sort of rolls over the movement and doesn't really have it's trajectory changed.

    On the other hand, it's being argued that nudging even while the ball is in an open space does significantly alter the ball's trajectory, due to the fact that the speed of the nudge is different from the speed the machine returns to its original position. So for example, the idea is that you nudge to the right, and the ball isn't affected that much since the playfield moves under the ball so fast, but then as the machine returns to its original position (Moving left), the slower movement affects the ball more than the initial nudge, which results in making it go a bit more to the left than it was before. Vice versa for nudging left.

    So what is everyone's thoughts here? When nudging I always think of it as moving the machine around the ball. When trying to save it from going STDM, I try to move a flipper closer to the ball, I don't think about trying to make the ball change direction and turn towards the flipper. I'm certainly not an expert though, and I could definitely be wrong, so that's why I'm asking here.

    #2 5 years ago

    Hell yeah it does

    #3 5 years ago

    I'm sure there are complex physics involved and definitely external forces imparted to the game. Friction would change at the balls contact point with the playing surface. There must be a physics teacher out here on this site somewhere.

    #5 5 years ago

    I read somewhere that a nudge when the ball is rolling on the playfield only that you are actually moving the playfield itself and not really affecting the ball... can’t remember where I heard or read that though.

    #6 5 years ago

    Think of it like this: if you nudge from right to left, the playfield essentially moves under the ball while the continues on its trajectory. So if is coming directly down the middle, a nudge to the left will move my right flipper into the ball's path for just a moment. Time it right and make the save.

    #7 5 years ago

    Put your machines on tile or hardwood floors, add felt pads under the leg levelers, disable the tilt bob, and you will never lose another ball down the middle once you learn how to slide sideways. Once you master that add rubber bands on mouths of the side outlanes blocking them and you will be able to keep your ball in play for hours. If your sliding and nudging is not up to snuff -- add some screws between the flippers. Just remember to remove all these before your friends come over so they can't beat your high scores.
    YES nudging works too.

    #8 5 years ago

    It would slightly adjust the trajectory. Roll a ball down a piece of waxed wood and repeat the experiment and move the piece of wood while it rolls down.

    The force from nudging the playfield has relatively little force being directly transferred to the ball. Compare that to it being hit by a post while nudging, the post transfers a lot more force to the ball to alter its momentum.

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    Think of it like this: if you nudge from right to left, the playfield essentially moves under the ball while the continues on its trajectory. So if is coming directly down the middle, a nudge to the left will move my right flipper into the ball's path for just a moment. Time it right and make the save.

    I think that counts as the ball being 'against something'.

    I've never seen much effect from nudging in open space

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    I think that counts as the ball being 'against something'.
    I've never seen much effect from nudging in open space

    Agree to disagree, it was an open space until I nudged The Flipper over there.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    I think that counts as the ball being 'against something'.
    I've never seen much effect from nudging in open space

    It really depends on the position of the machine before and after the nudge. If the machine has physically slid in one direction, then the ball will hit the flipper. If the machine is in the same position as before the nudge, then you will barely notice a change in trajectory.

    #12 5 years ago

    A2E92C11-E709-4D25-8736-3F05726609F3 (resized).pngA2E92C11-E709-4D25-8736-3F05726609F3 (resized).png

    #13 5 years ago

    Unless it’s a total airball a nudge will effect the ball in some way

    #14 5 years ago

    There is no spoon...

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    I think that counts as the ball being 'against something'.

    The ball in contact with the playfield counts as being against something.

    #16 5 years ago

    what is the point with the constant pounding when the ball plays off the slingshot or pop bumper. It also seems like a downward slap at times is dished out.

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from wolffcub:

    what is the point with the constant pounding when the ball plays off the slingshot or pop bumper. It also seems like a downward slap at times is dished out.

    I asked Colin MacAlpine to explain this to me years ago, specifically the downward slap on the lockdown bar.. not sure he ever explained that one, I legitimately don't remember. I've seen other people do it as well. My assumption is that they think it adds some vibration to the game to cancel out the ball bouncing quite so much in the outlane posts, or to impart some additional force to the slings to push the ball higher up the playfield and not into the other sling.

    In practice, I don't think it helps that much, but maybe that's why he won Pinburg and I can't even afford to go. Who knows.

    #18 5 years ago

    The pinball while heavy and contacting the playfield over a very small area, does change it's trajectory when the game is nudged/moved sideways in one direction.

    This trajectory movement is small, especially if the ball is new and the playfield is smooth/waxed...so it essentially keeps going in the same direction. If the playfield is worn or heavily dimpled the trajectory will change more.

    The apparent change in trajectory is mostly due to the playfield moving under the ball. Though the ball does slightly change it's trajectory depending on it's velocity and the amount of friction with the playfield. The slower the ball is going the greater it's trajectory change, due to increased friction with the playfield.

    Since the trajectory change is in the direction of the nudge, you would what the playfield to be smooth and waxed so the ball continues nearly along it's original path and the movement of the playfield (under the ball) causes the ball to hit what you want.

    When you nudge the game it moves in one direction then eventually back in the reverse direction (unless you slide the game on the floor). This back and forth motion essentially cancels out any trajectory change.

    When you slid the game the apparent trajectory change is almost all due to the playfield moving under the ball.

    Robert

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