Maybe picking a theme based on pop culture (movie, music, etc) made sense when pins were being made to stick in arcades, but in today's market where the collectors basically keep the hobby afloat?!
Is a $5,000+ pin really being marketed towards Joe Moviegoer?
I'm not saying that I have any better ideas, but I think that pinball is out of ideas. UNLESS...it's an original theme. Movies, comics, tv shows, rock bands. It's all getting stale. I know it's what sells, but how many units Stern is able to move doesn't magically make the game more interesting for me.
WPC-95 original themes have been what I like best lately. Unfortunately, so does the rest of the hobby given their prices.
Quoted from Spencer:Of coarse it does, it draws you in. Sure gameplay does as well but to non pinheads, put 2 games side by side or three or four, whatever and they would pick there favorite theme.
People do it in my basement! Of coarse they do it on location.
Maybe for the single game player. But people who enjoy pinball frequently will play the best playing game regardless of theme. And people who play frequently are the ones who determine which machines are earners and which machines aren't.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Thank you Stern! I used to wait for every new title and only buy your games but this new run of lame titles has let me buy Wh20 instead of Mustang , TZ instead of WWE and CV instead of Big Nellie .
Keep it up and I wil own all the classics.
Former Stern head wishing for a good game ...
News flash: Mustang *is* a good game!
My expertise is in analyses, here's my two cents.
Themes matter to many people. It draws them in. To estimate success, I look first at the theme, but more specifically to a pinball machine's broad or most generic theme, which matters more in overall appeal to people than the detailed aspects of its theme. The more novel the general theme, combined with overall and mass appeal, the more chance for success imo.
FF is a car culture theme in the end (its most basic broad theme). That theme has been done lots. Been done lately too. The mustang pin had at least as much appeal, and better appeal to the older crowd who happen to play more pinball and can afford to buy pinball machines. Sales. Not so good from what I've read. I'd be surprised if FF did better than the mustang pin in sales. Even mustang pin owners say the game is fun. Though it hasn't translated into big sales.
On the other side, TWD is a recent example of a fairly novel and broad theme for a pin. Its adult-oriented zombie theme is fairly unique in pinball (plus monster themes haven't been done for a fair bit of time too). Zombie pop culture has had a big resurgence and is more popular than ever. Tied into a very popular show as well. So all this also checks the boxes for overall and mass appeal. And we see this machine has sold quite well, notably beyond some heavy negative feedback and naysayers in this community. One can go on with other relatively novel broad themes with overall and mass appeal as well, that have had recent success..... WOZ, newer comic book, band pins, etc.
As another pin theme that I think would sell well along these assessment lines (agree or not), I see merit in a Mad Max pin (said it before). The franchise is big, storied and well-reviewed/received. It is now going to be current and relevant again (quite important, as compared to Jaws, for example). The reboot is looking awesome (google for the trailer, and I posted it earlier). It's an apocalypse-themed pin.... not very common, yet with much broad appeal. I see a lot of upside and appeal for this pin imo.
Just some thoughts. By all means discuss.
Quoted from kaneda:I'm not arguing Kiss faithful wouldn't buy this thing. But they just aren't a relevant band anymore. AC/DC has continued to make hits over the years, has KISS? I actually enjoyed the KISS concert I went to a couple years ago and can definitely see the appeal of some good ol Rock N Roll. It's like Guns N' Roses...I LOVE THEM. And heck if an updated GN'R pin came out, it would sell too...but GN'R is also really irrelevant today.
All I'm saying is this: I'd love to see a company go after a more contemporary audience. If you want young people to get into pinball, you have to take a chance somewhere with them. Most millennials would rather play a machine with their favorite DJ music than KISS. As a marketer, I'd also be interested in hooking the next generation of pinball buyers. I'd rather see a Frozen pin than KISS. But that's me
How the hell can you say AC/DC is relevant and KISS isn't!
Here's AC/DC's chart toppers for their career.... http://www.billboard.com/artist/275312/acdc/chart
Here's KISS's chart toppers for their career.... http://www.billboard.com/artist/305964/kiss/chart?f=379
Both bands have continued to release new albums in recent years....ACDC's Black Ice & their current disc. KISS has released Sonic Boom & Monster.
Yeah they don't have the commercial appeal of years ago but the record business is completely different now. Same thing can be said about Van Halen's disc a few years ago...which IMO was complete garbage! Far worse than KISS or ACDC's recent discs....
For KISS not being a relevant band they are still enjoying selling out concerts year in year out.....so is ACDC & Van Halen too.
What relevant bands are you into these days that are putting up numbers like these 3 bands?
Quoted from Chicoman:How the hell can you say AC/DC is relevant and KISS isn't!
Take a look at the various metrics on that page between the two bands. AC/DC blows away Kiss in overall metrics on that page (and its links). Just pointing out the stats.
AC/DC has sold between 150-200 million albums.
Kiss has sold about 75 million albums.
Just to put that in a good reference, Taylor Swift has already sold 140 million albums.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Taylor Swift has already sold 140 million albums.
Th real question is why? What has happened to art? It is dead and gone, and has been replaced with cheap, regurgitated, surgically produced disposable garbage.
The biggest joke was the whole Kanye Beck thing.
Let's see what it takes to make a Beyonce song:
Lyricists
Multiple Song writers
Engineers
Probably a team of 20 some odd people in the end for a single song
Beyonce singing
Let's see what it takes to make a Beck song:
Beck
Maybe a few other people/producers, collaborators
Sorry, back on topic.
If the next game is F&F it will have nothing to do with Mustang. It will not be a Mustang recycled layout for sure.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:AC/DC has sold between 150-200 million albums.
Kiss has sold about 75 million albums.
Just to put that in a good reference, Taylor Swift has already sold 140 million albums.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists
Imma save my money up fer one a dem Taylor Swift vs Katy Perry mud rasslin' LEs.
That would be relevant.
Why do so many people assume that if the theme is one they like then the game will be great? I love car stuff including Mustangs but really don't like the pin. Most car pins are kind of cheesy to begin with and F&F movies are ultra cheesy. The over the top one liners from the movie are going to get real old, the 700th time you hear them. And you know there will be a ton of fake car sounds and over the top cliche action movie sounds. Layout could be fun but no way you could make an A-title from this.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:AC/DC has sold between 150-200 million albums.
Kiss has sold about 75 million albums.
Just to put that in a good reference, Taylor Swift has already sold 140 million albums.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists
Exactly!
And that's why my money is on ABBA for the next music pin. 
F&F seems like a no brainer theme ...... High Speed/HS2 are popular modern classics. With a kickass soundtrack and some slick artwork and cars (minimal Vin pics), I think it would do well
Too bad they couldn't just call it High Speed 3: The Fast and the Furious. Then you could please the mass market and the "real pinball fans", but Williams wouldn't let them use High Speed.
Quoted from lowepg:Exactly!
And that's why my money is on ABBA for the next music pin.
» YouTube video
+1
Mamma Mia Multiball!!!
Quoted from Chicoman:How the hell can you say AC/DC is relevant and KISS isn't!
Ahh isn't AC DC headlining Cochella this year? Love AC DC, but figuring out how to play it and score well just confuses me. I went to read the shorten version and fell asleep after one page. If KISS turns out anything like Metallica, I'm in. Like the music, creative rules that can be figured out without a degree from MIT, enough depth and polish to be considered with the elite games. Sad part is any game out of STERN these days will take 2 years post launch to see if it is legit.
Might do well on location...
Portland has 5 WWE'e on location but I don't know anyone who bought one for home use.
Versus Metallica lots on location as well as homes.
I don't want to look at Fast and Furious in my line up.
My thoughts anyway
Quoted from Chicoman:KISS is loved or hated but never ignored!
If Stern eventually makes a KISS Pinball machine it will the largest selling modern era pinball machine to hit the market. You can bank on that. There are a lot of pinball fans and a lot of KISS fans who'd want that machine in their collection.
BANK ON IT!
BTW at 65 their still rockin to crowds in the tens of thousands not to mention headlining festivals in Europe, South America and Australia this spring and summer! I'm sure concert promoters always look for irrelevant bands to headline concerts so people don't attend and the promoters loose money!
I'm sure many other bands would want to be as irrelevant as KISS and rake in that $$$. Meanwhile most of the bands you probably listen to are playing local clubs and school gymnasiums a handful of shows a year!
Cmon man KISS has influenced generations of musicians to pick up instruments and play rock and roll. They are still rockin after all these years! That's something to be proud of! Not many bands can achieve what they have in 40+ years!
I am with you brother!!
Quoted from kaneda:I'm not arguing Kiss faithful wouldn't buy this thing. But they just aren't a relevant band anymore. AC/DC has continued to make hits over the years, has KISS? I actually enjoyed the KISS concert I went to a couple years ago and can definitely see the appeal of some good ol Rock N Roll. It's like Guns N' Roses...I LOVE THEM. And heck if an updated GN'R pin came out, it would sell too...but GN'R is also really irrelevant today.
All I'm saying is this: I'd love to see a company go after a more contemporary audience. If you want young people to get into pinball, you have to take a chance somewhere with them. Most millennials would rather play a machine with their favorite DJ music than KISS. As a marketer, I'd also be interested in hooking the next generation of pinball buyers. I'd rather see a Frozen pin than KISS. But that's me
You are clueless man.......Frozen over Kiss. There is no hope for you. The Kiss pin will be huge.
Quoted from RobT:News flash: Mustang *is* a good game!
Rob is right. Mustang is pretty good, but man, I just don't dig the car. Always seemed boring growing up. I was a Chevy guy back then. I'm more Dodge now.
Quoted from thedarkknight77:You are clueless man.......Frozen over Kiss. There is no hope for you. The Kiss pin will be huge.
...says the Kiss Army member. 
Quoted from underlord:Rob is right. Mustang is pretty good, but man, I just don't dig the car. Always seemed boring growing up. I was a Chevy guy back then. I'm more Dodge now.
image.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
I was a Camaro guy in high school. Had a '69 Camaro. 
Quoted from RobT:I was a Camaro guy in high school. Had a '69 Camaro.
You had me at 69. 
Quoted from underlord:Mustang is pretty good, but man, I just don't dig the car. Always seemed boring growing up.
Quoted from beelzeboob:...says the Kiss Army member.
Says the millions of records sold and billions in total sales......
Quoted from thedefog:Th real question is why? What has happened to art? It is dead and gone, and has been replaced with cheap, regurgitated, surgically produced disposable garbage.
The biggest joke was the whole Kanye Beck thing.
Let's see what it takes to make a Beyonce song:
Lyricists
Multiple Song writers
Engineers
Probably a team of 20 some odd people in the end for a single song
Beyonce singing
Let's see what it takes to make a Beck song:
Beck
Maybe a few other people/producers, collaborators
Sorry, back on topic.
It's a little ironic you replied to a statement about Taylor Swift selling 140M albums, because she actually writes all of her music, which is, I agree, very rare in today's pop music industry.
Quoted from thedarkknight77:Says the millions of records sold and billions in total sales......
I'm not arguing with you...just pointing out that you *might* be a little biased.
Their music isn't great, but they used to have the best live show in rock. I saw the "Farewell Tour" in the 90s that went on into the next decade. Loved it...it was hilarious and awesome at the same time. But now it's just fake Kiss, and sad...like so many other 70s bands. Even AC/DC's starting to lose it.
Okay, now I'm depressed. 
Quoted from Baiter:It's a little ironic you replied to a statement about Taylor Swift selling 140M albums, because she actually writes all of her music, which is, I agree, very rare in today's pop music industry.
Haha, I wasn't going to point that out. I didn't want to be the creepy middle aged guy arguing FOR Taylor Swift as an artist. I do like a lot of her stuff though.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I didn't want to be the creepy middle aged guy arguing FOR Taylor Swift as an artist.
I'll go out on a limb and say she is not just a great artist, but she is also pretty hot!
Quoted from o-din:I'll go out on a limb and say she is not just a great artist, but she is also pretty hot!
She squints a lot, though. Bitch should wear sunglasses.
No offense to Kiss fans, but I'm firmly in the ignored camp. I don't love or hate them, just don't care. I guess they did the rock and roll all night song right? Couldn't name another song to save my life.
Hey if Stern wants to make it and people will buy it then awesome. Go for it. Speaking as someone who has no real strong opinion it feels kinda cheesy and dated. But if it's a good game its a good game. Plenty of people who aren't ACDC fans love the game.
Quoted from Aurich:I guess they did the rock and roll all night song right?
Yeah, before most here were born. When I was a paperboy throwing newspapers at peoples windows. It was a great time to be sprouting pubes, but I don't get the need to build $8000 lighted monuments to a bygone era like that.
Quoted from o-din:Yeah, before most here were born. When I was a paperboy throwing newspapers at peoples windows. It was a great time to be sprouting pubes, but I don't get the need to build $8000 lighted monuments to a bygone era like that.
So you were the fucker that busted my window?
I'm still waiting on the pubes, btw... 
I wish Stern would do a official voting poll on pinside or their own website with a list of game possible options and see what titles come out on top as far as the collector market. I bet they would do better if we are a large enough part of their market to know what we want instead of taking a chance at what we want. What do you guys think??? Would this make good business sense? Even if they used our opinions for a percentage of what they might consider for a new title.
Feedback please ,
Rob
Quoted from gaspumprob:I wish Stern would do a official voting poll on pinside or their own website with a list of game possible options and see what titles come out on top as far as the collector market. I bet they would do better if we are a large enough part of their market to know what we want instead of taking a chance at what we want. What do you guys think??? Would this make good business sense? Even if they used our opinions for a percentage of what they might consider for a new title.
Feedback please ,
Rob
It's a brilliant and at the same time no brainer concept. Would love to see them put out a poll.
Quoted from gaspumprob:I wish Stern would do a official voting poll on pinside or their own website with a list of game possible options and see what titles come out on top as far as the collector market.
It would probably show they are already giving the people what they want.
Quoted from kaneda:Also kiss is just the worst idea ever. That band is so irrelevant it's not even funny. Stern needs to look forward, not back.
I refuse to believe this is an actual factual release. Refuse.
Quoted from dt3:I refuse to believe this is an actual factual release. Refuse.
Why? Metallica and AC/DC are two of their biggest sellers ever. Why abandon that formula now?
Quoted from gaspumprob:I wish Stern would do a official voting poll on pinside or their own website with a list of game possible options and see what titles come out on top as far as the collector market. I bet they would do better if we are a large enough part of their market to know what we want instead of taking a chance at what we want. What do you guys think??? Would this make good business sense? Even if they used our opinions for a percentage of what they might consider for a new title.
Feedback please ,
Rob
They would just use the data as an excuse to charge us more.....
Quoted from o-din:Why? Metallica and AC/DC are two of their biggest sellers ever. Why abandon that formula now?
Not a fan of any of the 3 but with that being said Metallica and acdc are simply on another level compared to kiss. It would be like (hypothetically) saying the mustang game sold well maybe they should make a Ford Taurus game.
In the past year acdc has coheadlined coachella, opened the Grammys, and ran a solo tour with stops at such iconic/massive venues as Dodgers stadium, ford field, and wriggley field.
On the other hand kiss had to bring def leppard along to fill venues and performed at such b rate stops as jiffy lube live, mid Florida credit union amphitheater, and darien lake performing arts center.
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