Gee...another price thread. Someone joked about a sub forum for pin pricing...might not be a bad idea

Good advice but I say just let people post THEIR stuff for sale for whatever price they want. If it doesn't sell they can adjust from there. Jeez...

I wish I was closer....

Who do you think you are, Kwiki? I guess it's okay as long as you are paying him royalties.

Dan

Good Price!

Wah.

Tell us how on boston pinball you can tell the condition of game sold. Was it nice, restored, huo, routed, shopped, cab dings, working, parts game, etc......I have missed that part.

I'm sorry, but the market on some titles has outrun some players/collectors, just like bbb has outrun what I would buy it for. But I don't complain, and whine on a public forum about it. It makes you look really bad. You get a label you don't want. Just move on to the next title.

You are implying it is new guys driving prices up. How do you know it is not seasoned collectors paying market prices or slightly higher because shipping is not involved, or they trust seller,or time is precious to them and can't sit on pinside all day to wait for the next FS ad to pop up, to add the one game they are looking for?

Take a college course called Econ 101, supply/demand. It may help you to understand the market better.

It is what it is.

Pinstor, you're missing the point. I think he's just saying that if you're responding to overpriced for sale ads with how cheap they are a few days after they go on sale, you look a little silly. If the price was good, it would have been gone already.

The last 3 games I sold on pin side, 2 sold in less than 24 hours. I know which one was too expensive.

Either that or its a simple post to gain Karma.

It is actually this sentiment that brought the word "Shazaam" to pinside last summer. Some of the newer members felt that they were doped by price cheerleading into over paying and created that word as the anti price cheerleading word for pinside.

I thought it had some merit, but was quickly over used and played out.

This shouldn't last long.

Free Bump!

Say it isn't so... Those sort of motives would be indicia of sadness.

I have a degree in it, and I can assure you, speculation or perceived scarcity can certainly have an effect on market price, particularly in a niche market as small as this one.

5 people giving the impression that if they were "closer" they would have already purchased the game in question ( ) will give some people the idea that they had better move fast, or they will miss out on such a deal.

Good thread; nothing wrong with posting a friendly heads up that "this is something that can happen" when it appears to be happening over and over again.

Not having a game sell instantly is not a sign of the wrong price, but yes it is also a sign the game is not a "steal".

I have not sold a game ever, but if I did I would hopefully not feel pressued to sell super quickly. I only have one copy of that game to sell, assuming it does sell at a desired price eventually then I should be ok with that (waiting for the one right buyer). It is not like I would have a warehouse of that title that I am trying to blow through.

100% correct: FEAR and HYPE: missing from any simply supply and demand analysis

Yep; perceived scarcity does do this. There are almost the same number of BBB's as there are TRS LE. Yet one is a 20k game and the other is a 4k game. That is a tough delta to explain but perception is as good of a method to use as any for it.

Whether they want to believe it or not, most people want the value of games they own to go up while the value of others goes down. In fact, it would seem silly to me if they DIDN'T want that. Because of that, people have more incentive to provide positive comments on games they own and less incentive to provide positive comments on games they don't own.

Not everyone acts upon these incentives or desires to increase value, but some do. Because of that, I find it most useful to focus on factual evidence as opposed to the opinion of someone that might be influenced by outside factors.

I certainly wouldn't buy a house in the heart of Detroit because my uncle (a realtor in Detroit) says that it's a great deal. Likewise, I wouldn't buy a pinball for a certain price because a handful of guys who own that game say that it's a great price.

At the end of the day, it's your money, your time, your hobby, and your decision. You can pay whatever you want for whatever you want and I'll do the same.

If there is such a good price that it is a "steal" it will be gone before people even have a chance to post a bunch of "great price" and "that should go quick". There can still be good prices on games and good deals but just might not have the right buyer looking for that particular game at that moment. I am on here quite a bit but sometimes life dictates I may not be able to check it daily and I wouldn't even see a game I wanted for sale for a couple days.

What's the old saying, let the buyer beware? We're adults, we can figure it out without 'help'. If a guy posts a MM for 20k and someone says wish I were closer, what concern is it of yours? If a guy wants a MM and has 20k and personally decides it's worth it to him, he'll buy it. I sincerely doubt that a new buyer is swayed by comments like you suggest, if they are, then lesson learned.

Cool. I say , somewhat arrogantly, it is rare when someone uses a word I have never heard before.
Thanks.

How often is Boston pinball updated? many new games are not listed Tron ect, also
I doubt many of us here would take the average Boston pin sale price on any
of our machines.
I mean really avg on CC is $6645 am I reading that right?
If some one posts a CC on the board for under 7K I am am gunna post 2 things on the thread
1. Wish I was closer
2. This wont last long....great price
Actually never mind all that I will just buy it!

Judge Dredd is a 1400 dollar game, folks.....

you are doubting seriously wrong...

if there was a place where the buyer could go to properly educate themselves on pricing, etc., then you'd have a point...

however, as a new person, i can tell you that doesn't really exist... if a "new person" comes into the hobby, the only real places they can see pricing is on pinside/ebay/etc... add to that all of the comments that get thrown into for sale threads, then it is very easy for the new person to be fooled into thinking that games have "certain values"...

frankly, if someone posts "wish i was closer" on a 20k priced machine (or even a $7500 machine), that to me is simply attempting to boost the value of their own... if you are really interested in a 20k machine and have 20k to spend, 400 dollars shipping is going to break the deal? really? same thing with "that's a steal" commentary...

remember, "new people" want a machine, that's why they are looking... and since they have no background in the hobby, they can't sort the wheat from the chaff... and because the flippers have destroyed any hopes of scoring machines locally at a reasonable price via craigslist, etc., they end up here, and when they read for sale threads, the commentary would lead them to believe they'd better jump on a machine right there and now...

iow, the price police serve a very valuable function, even though they may tick people off... to be brutally honest, there are several at pinside who need to be policed, as they are here simply to take advantage of new people...

Seems like you're intentionally trying to be mean here or get somebody fired up. You made your point above this. Its just an internet forum. I just don't understand all the malicious comments being made on forum designed to unite people with a common interest.

Cheers

I was dead serious. It wasn't a joke.

This is dumb thinking. Plain dumb and I'm tired of hearing it. If a person owns a game, he is likely in touch with the price because he likely recently bought it. In doing so, he would have researched the price or maybe looked at several for various prices and is an expert on the price of the game. Furthermore, a person that owns a game and is not selling it doesn't give a crap how much a machine is selling for on a website across the country. This constant accusations that game owners somehow inflate the price due to some hidden conspiracy is just crazy talk.

Example: I just bought a corvette. I love the game and never plan to sell it. It was pretty hard to find. If some idiot thinks corvette is a $1400 machine, I'll happily correct them because I know how much it took to finally get one. That's all it is. There's no motivation or conspiracy. Sheesh.

There are a lot of places you can look for prices, but right now, they appear to be low. Here for instance, I sold a Baywatch recently for 1500 bucks, if you look here, in the archive section for Baywatch it says 920-1080, what good does that do you? You will never find a baywatch in good condition for 920-1080 today. Maybe two years ago, and maybe two years from now, but not RIGHT now. I'm sure many people think 1500 was a lot for Baywatch, but they didn't see it or play it, they're just basing it perceived value, not actual value.

My point was, do your do diligence with investigation, but if you want a pinball machine today, you'll pay a bit more than you did last year, that's just the way it's working now. I don't believe someone saying 'great price' on a pinball forum drives an entire market up, that's just silly.

They're rare, and becoming harder to find, that's the fact.

Pinside is not where people go to for "steals". A lot of times the price on Pinside is more than the already inflated Ebay. Too many people focus on making money in a transaction, and less about how fortunate we are to enjoy pinball as a hobby. Once people realize they aren't going to get rich buying and selling machines, they will be in a better place mentally.

@matt...

if there was "good data" to do "due diligence" upon, you'd have a point... unfortunately, you yourself say there isn't... this is where the "responsibility to the community at large" comes in, and people pumping up for sale threads doesn't serve that community...

mind experiment for you and others...

1) pretend you know NOTHING about the pinball market...

2) you are 50 years old, and have some coin in your pocket... and you are fulfilling a long time dream to own a pin...

3) you are pretty bright, and are used to doing research...

4) you look at ebay, and see the pricing there...

5) you show up at pinside, and see the pricing and accompanying cheerleading there...

6) you look at other places to buy things, such as craigslist, and see the pricing there...

7) you think, "darnit, i WANT a pinball machine"... and the ONLY thing you have to go on pricewise is what a supposed community of "experts" (i.e. pinside) are saying... unfortunately, those "experts" are often trying to/will be selling soon, machines...

ok, you tell me what you would do...

not true, dude had his monopoly for sale at a good price for a long time on pinside. It would have sold to me before he dropped price if he was closer

Once some of you guys realize you can't control how people price their pins YOU'LL be in a better place mentally! If you can't handle the market you either need to find another hobby or just enjoy the pins you currently own...

"Somewhat".

I would buy the machine if I wanted it, and I've done that. I bought an HS2 overpriced because I wanted it and they don't come up all that often.

I am with Mark on this one.

I've posted virtually the exact same thing before myself. Who knows the true value of a pin better than those who recently bought that pin? Those owners are the ones who did their research in searching out the pin, seeing what the prices were, and know what they themselves paid.

It's ridiculous to dismiss opinions of owners of the pin in question simply because they own it. It makes more sense to consider that posters reputation as a whole than it does to dismiss their opinion entirely simply because they own the pin.

This thread is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. You really that bothered by such a innocuous comment as "good price"?

I will tell you exactly what I did in 2005. Instead of being a 50 year old with money in my pocket, I was a 30 something with money in my pocket.

After buying my first game at an auction, I decided to educate myself and observe.

In 2005, Rec.Games.Pinball was the usenet group that I adopted.

I did a crazy thing and made posts asking questions about a particular game if I was interested in buying. I read the responses and I digested the information. I also read similar posts made by different people. I did my research and I did not take one particular thread as the gospel.

I fell victim to some overpriced games, but I learned from the experience.

After some time, I was able to figure out fair prices for desired games.

There was no magic, one stop webpage. I just used my noodle and actually participated in the hobby by posting my experiences, asking for other experiences and learning from those that were here before me.

Marcus

Good luck with the sale.

Part of the problem is the Karma system here. It should be reversed. One point for making a post and 15 points if someone likes it. We may get more quality posts than quantity.

I am in a great place mentally, this is just a hobby for me, always has been always will be. The problem I have run into with a lot of newer collectors, is that they won't even consider buying a machine if there is even a remote possibility they will lose a dime on it (And a lot of times, if they are buying on Pinside, there is a good chance they will lose a dime or two when they go to sell somewhere other than Pinside).

I handle the market just fine, and my market is not the same as yours, no two markets are the same, location is everything.

I don't care what people ask for machines, nor do I care to control it. I brought another Pinsider to a deal where I could have EASILY made 3-5k on a deal if I bought and sold the machines myself. He was looking for these two titles, I ran across them, I brought him directly to the seller, they made the deal, and it was a win-win for both.

It is tough for some to grasp, but this isn't about money for a lot of us...

I'd take it a step further. Zero karma points for simply making a post. All Karma should be based on the number of thumbs up, if anything.

Frankly I'd take it a step further and just do away with the karma thing altogether.

you asked for it

I don't think they are trying to tell people how to price their machines. I think they are trying to help give people that are newer to the hobby an understanding one of many things that can pop up in a for sale thread.

It sure appears to me that it IS about the money for some of you. All some of you do is complain about the high prices, over pricing, PROFIT, OH NO!, blah, blah, blah... same guys over and over...

Location means a lot. If you are in the middle of a big city and your pin does not sell quickly, then yes, it is likely on the high side. But if it is a marginal title/goofy title or you live in the middle of nowhere a long sale time means much less in my mind.

I will pay so much more for a game that is with 30 minutes of me. Driving is expensive and time is valuable. I have passed on reasonably nice free (or close to free) games because I did not want to spend a whole day driving.

Im not going to fight about it, because I honestly don't care that much. But if people don't think owners of games price pump, go read some of the posts in xmen for sale ads from the last three or four months. Do you really think people posting in those threads weren't concerned about the value of their own machines as they weren't selling in the ads?

Ultimately they didn't have a great effect on things, IMO, but it's obvious they cared.

While I certainly won't dismiss someones opinion because they own a game, and it's quite possible they know the value better than anyone. I also think it's foolish to believe that they may not have an incentive to keep the value from dropping. It goes both ways.

I have been guilty of calling things a "good price" in the past but I'm always honest with my opinion (regardless of whether or not I own the machine), and I definitely don't say "good price" after it's been sitting for weeks

I don't even understand why this is a question. You can buy a "Mr. Pinball Price Guide", listen to all the old pinball experts saying "back in my day", you can look at prices on Pinside, Boston Pinball Biz, whatever you want to do. At the end of the day, if you want a machine right away, you take a look at the available supply and determine if you want to pay the price. Doesn't matter if everyone in the world agrees that some pin is only worth 500.00, if the only one you can find for sale is for 750.00. Comes down to how badly you want that particular pin.

For individual sellers a pin is worth as little as they are willing to take, for buyers it is worth as much as they are willing to pay. It isn't hard.

^^^

you are missing the point... oh well...

would you really say with a straight face that the 2005 marketplace and the 2013 marketplace are anywhere near the same?

again... try my thought experiment... and be honest with yourself...

No, I got your point. I just disagree with it. There is a difference.

^^^

nope, you aren't... but that is ok...

if anyone really believes that all the people commenting in the for sale threads have altruistic motives, i have 2 bridges close by for sale...

that doesn't even begin to get into how some manipulate the marketplace as well...

everyone always says how great it would be to get new blood into the hobby, and that it needs to grow... taking advantage of new people won't make that happen... there are way too many posters who aren't concerned about the pinball community, and are only concerned with getting every last buck out of their machines...

i have no problem with wanting to sell as high as possible... what i do have a problem with is artificial demand being created (the whole "wish i was closer, etc." routine)... either be honest, or don't comment...

again... do my thought experiment... see the conflicting data... look at it from an outsider's perspective, not an insiders one...