(Topic ID: 112652)

If a $5k LOTR Vault is released before Hobbit, what will you get?


By YKpinballer

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by flynnibus
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Topic poll

“If a $5k LOTR VE released before the Hobbit, which would you get?”

  • Hobbit 64 votes
    24%
  • Lord of the Rings 183 votes
    69%
  • Both 20 votes
    7%

(267 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 172 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 4 years ago

You will never see a $5000 LOTR VE. IF they make a VE it will be more like the $6200 range because it will take sales away from whatever they have on the market at the time.

#102 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

I'm gonna call you out on this one... I don't think I would classify a missing chunk of wood an added feature that should be considered in material value.

I do, It's a really fun shot and one that does not appear in many games, they also coded/integrated it into the game pretty well.

#103 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You feel? LOTR was one of their highest selling games until AC/DC. Guesstimates of how many LOTRs were made are 6000+ They made about 1000 Iron Mans initially...that's why the game was in demand & why the VE was done. Operators & collectors wanted it. Some collectors are crying for a NIB LOTR cuz they just want NIB anything...but is the demand REALLY there? It's doubtful that operators want LOTR again....they already have/had tons. Maybe 100-200 people would put their money where their mouth is, and that's being generous. Stern won't put it back in production with those numbers.

Ahhh, but convert to SAM with high quality sound and slap on metallic decals and those demand numbers shoot up to at least 1000. You even said yourself you couldn't resist those upgrades at one point! Convert code, redo sound, color DMD...easier than making Mustang from scratch and quadruple the sales!!!

#104 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Maybe 100-200 people would put their money where their mouth is, and that's being generous. Stern won't put it back in production with those numbers.

Quoted from wolfy:

Rarehero hit the nail on the head in his last post.

Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

I hope he is wrong because I want a NIB LOTR

Rarehero is wrong, 120 people on this thread said they'd buy one. I have bought 4 NIB from Stern games in the past 30 months. I'd buy one, so quite obviously the market is not saturated.

If they made the VE for like $5000 there would be more sold than IMVE.

#105 4 years ago

People who already own lotr don't see the value maybe but rarehero is quoting run numbers a lot lower than say... Addams family or other super high run games. Lotr actually seems to warrant more than 10k machines. It has appeal on the operator and collector market.

#106 4 years ago

I own a super tit LOTR

If a new one came out I'd prolly buy one

Why?

I'm an idiot & love LOTR

#107 4 years ago

I heard that LOTR VE is a lock to happen.

#108 4 years ago
Quoted from stretch2:

I heard that LOTR VE is a lock to happen.

Where did you hear that? I want it to happen, just need time to save up! And time to sweeten up the wife to let me get it....

#109 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

is the demand REALLY there? It's doubtful that operators want LOTR again....they already have/had tons. Maybe 100-200 people would put their money where their mouth is, and that's being generous. Stern won't put it back in production with those numbers.

That same argument was used against the IM VE, but we know how that turned out.

Quoted from playernumber4:

You will never see a $5000 LOTR VE. IF they make a VE it will be more like the $6200 range because it will take sales away from whatever they have on the market at the time.

If that was true IM VE would have been $6200 too. Stern sells pros at pro prices.

#110 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

That same argument was used against the IM VE, but we know how that turned out.

If that was true IM VE would have been $6200 too. Stern sells pros at pro prices.

Original Ironman's were selling for 6kish HUO. Dont think LOTR has reached that height as ive seen many HUO sell for mid 4's. As stated earlier there are just way too many LOTRs out there.

#111 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Still, the poll doesn't say "INSTEAD"....I don't think anyone planning on buying Hobbit already would be like "Oh - I'm gonna get LOTR instead". People saying LOTR might have zero interest in Hobbit anyway. I'd buy LOTR over Hobbit! ...but I never wanted Hobbit in the first place.

With a $3000 price difference going from TH to LOTR is very possible.

#112 4 years ago

I like to buy new games, I hate to pay and wait.....

So I will get an LOTR, and eventually grab an HUO Hobbit if I like the game.

If however JJP changes their model to shipping the game upon payment.... I will take one. But I am not paying extra because one is in stock somewhere. Nor will I ever again send money to JJP just to wait a year.

To be clear....I have a WOZ and love it, huge fan of JJP quality. I am looking forward to the Hobbit. But my guess is I won't have one for another year, I will have purchased 2 Sterns or more by then.

#113 4 years ago
Quoted from stretch2:

I heard that LOTR VE is a lock to happen.

I told you not to tell anyone...

#114 4 years ago

If Stern releases a LoTR VE for $5k, I will sell my very nice Funhouse and purchase my first NIB game ever. In other words, not gonna happen at $5k in the current market.

#115 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

upgraded sound,

yeah because even though the game is great.......the sound on that is awful.Volume swells,distorted voice calls with background noise.Pet peeve of mine on what is one of Sterns best.

#116 4 years ago

I would have said TH .... until I saw Smaug . (Yes, even Smaug 4.0).

LOTR VE would sell a shit-ton..... ESPECIALLY if Stern could get them out the door to capitalize on the hype from the new movie release.... (something JJP is apparently not going to be able to do).

I think $5K price point is a dream though.

#117 4 years ago

Random generated comment incoming: Since stern is too lazy to fix bugs in their current games (Star Trek, avengers, to name a few) then why would I want to see (or even buy) what new games they have coming. Bring on the VE's!!!!!!

#118 4 years ago

From what I'm hearing it seems like so many people would be blown away by a $5k price point they would jump all over it.

In order to "wow" people into buying The Hobbit (Especially at $8500), JJP has to present features and bells and whistles, they've had to re-do the artwork, redisign the gameplay etc.

If this thread is any indication all Stern has to do is say "LOTR... better sound, LED, $4,995. Gollum Premium LE $7,495" Marketing complete, people would be "wowed" by the price points alone. See how much of a competitive advantage that is? And all your minds would be blown that it was under $5k apparently, although I don't see why.

I think people are thumbing me down because they think it can't happen, which isn't even the point of the thread, poll or conversation (although sure, hearing some speculation is fun). I'm just interested in seeing what would happen if Stern *did* make this happen. And the signs are pretty strong that it would be a big success.

And if you've been arguing tooth and nail about them being able to keep the price under $5k, what are you talking? Are you really suggesting that they would HAVE to sell at a 6k price point? Spooky is selling at that as a boutique that developed a game from scratch... and they already made their money back after selling ~ 50 machines (or so I gather from the most recent Spooky podcast). Stern has the factories for mass production!

On another point, it seems like all the people who think the $5k price point is super low would jump all over a premium machine if they could price it at $7500 since that's barely more than they're willing to pay for a pro. And if you've owned LOTR for like 10 years, you might consider selling your old one and buying a new VE or *character x LE* with some upgrades and added features since you obviously love the pin.

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

From what I'm hearing it seems like so many people would be blown away by a $5k price point they would jump all over it.

Unless we get an extremely stripped down version of a game, a la The Pin, we will never see a $5 LoTR. $6500 is more likely what it would start at.

#120 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

Unless we get an extremely stripped down version of a game, a la The Pin, we will never see a $5 LoTR. $6500 is more likely what it would start at.

How many times do we have to go over this? LOTR doesn't have that many "toys".
1) Sword lock ramp...errr, wireform really.
2) Ring (which is just one circular magnet ala TOTAN)
3) Balrog
4) Tower that pathetically falls over
5) Can we even say the mini-playfield?

That's it. It's already stripped.

#121 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

How many times do we have to go over this? LOTR doesn't have that many "toys".
1) Sword lock ramp...errr, wireform really.
2) Ring (which is just one circular magnet ala TOTAN)
3) Balrog
4) Tower that pathetically falls over
5) Can we even say the mini-playfield?
That's it. It's already stripped.

I'm curious, if LOTR is considered "stripped", then what game would you consider loaded? Aside from WoZ?

#122 4 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I'm curious, if LOTR is considered "stripped", then what game would you consider loaded? Aside from WoZ?

TZ and RS for two...but the point was that LOTR doesn't have more any going on in it toy wise than most machines. There isn't anything costly about it.

#123 4 years ago

LOTR if it is not majorly neutered and 5k then yes yes yes yes yes.

but IF it did happen, HIGHLY unlikely it will be 5k. 6.5 at least.
I might buy it if it were 6k, but thats really really really stretching it.

hobbit is not in my pricing universe so as far as im concerned it doesnt exist.

#124 4 years ago

God i hope they do LOTR VE
...or Torn VE
hurry up Stern!

#125 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

That same argument was used against the IM VE, but we know how that turned out.

No, you missed my point entirely.

LOTR - TONS made, operators are over it, it's not used in tournaments, prices are "normal".

IM - Not many made, operators wanted it, tournaments wanted it, collectors wanted it, prices were going apeshit.

There was no argument against IMve...all the factors were in place, including Mustang bombing, IM license still being relevant & IM having the cheapest BOM in a Stern ever.

#126 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

How many times do we have to go over this? LOTR doesn't have that many "toys".
1) Sword lock ramp...errr, wireform really.
2) Ring (which is just one circular magnet ala TOTAN)
3) Balrog
4) Tower that pathetically falls over
5) Can we even say the mini-playfield?
That's it. It's already stripped.

Plus divertor, 3 VUKs, a kickout, and plenty of other little tidbits...compare that to IM. IM is a stripped Stern. LOTR isn't.

#127 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

TZ and RS for two...but the point was that LOTR doesn't have more any going on in it toy wise than most machines. There isn't anything costly about it.

You are missing the point. Its not about what it costs Stern....its about where they will price it to maximize profit. They are not going to leave all their money on the table to give you a good deal on it.

Its all about the Benjamins, and they know they can sell the heck out of it at $6000 so why would they price it at $5000? We're talking about Stern here....not SkitB etc.

#128 4 years ago

while the bill of materials may be higher, they have less development costs to recoup assuming they dont port it to sam. (and maybe less licensing costs since the movies arent hot anymore?)

but the above comment is true, if they make it, they will price it what the market will pay for it (at their volume target) and not a penny less.
assuming that price has enough profit margin, then they move forward and build it, if not, then there are just more VE threads on pinside pining for it.

#129 4 years ago
Quoted from Monster_Bash:

I've ported many arcade games over to new hardware for a major redemption manufacture. It takes a couple to 4 days max...and I didn't design the hardware..or have any knowledge of the hardware design before it hit my desk.
I'm pretty sure porting the game over won't be that be of deal if they wanted too...

Stern would like for you to report for duty Monday. Well, actually I'd like for you to, but if you were to were to get a facility tour and disappeared along the way, only to reappear in an office, maybe they'd get tired of looking for you. On Tuesday show up at 7:30a and follow the first guy in and just set up camp. Then at the weekly meeting announce that you have been tasked by the partner to use your mad computer skills to make this happen. After you have successfully compiled the code, visit Gary in his office and explain that he needs to produce LOTRve. That's how I'd do approach it anyways.

#130 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Stern would like for you to report for duty Monday. Well, actually I'd like for you to, but if you were to were to get a facility tour and disappeared along the way, only to reappear in an office, maybe they'd get tired of looking for you. On Tuesday show up at 7:30a and follow the first guy in and just set up camp. Then at the weekly meeting announce that you have been tasked by the partner to use your mad computer skills to make this happen. After you have successfully compiled the code, visit Gary in his office and explain that he needs to get this done. That's how I'd do approach it anyways.

No need to bash here. For a redemption game, 4 days is absolutely possible. But unless you're talking about virtualization/emulation on newer hardware, a port from one specialized piece of pin hardware to another 4 days is not possible unless your program is very small. Only Stern employees would know for sure how difficult a task it would be. For all we know, the Whitestar stuff can be emulated on the current generation boards or they have methods to port and compile.

#131 4 years ago

If Stern is going to stick with a single color DMD on LOTR VE, there is no way it should sell for anywhere close to the price of The Hobbit. There just isn't enough hardware there to make it cost as much. Not a wide body, no LCD, probably not color changing coded playfield LEDs etc...
Just stick with the previous minor improvement changes like they did with Iron man to keep the cost down, and if Stern wanted to add some flair, they could put in a Color DMD.

#132 4 years ago

Stern is doing a run of Big Juicy Mellons for god sakes. If you think ANYTHING isn't possible after that machine, you're wrong.

-11
#133 4 years ago

One other thing you people should be careful of before you start "virtually" pre-agreeing to these thoughts:

Companies clearly read Pinside, and are HEAVILY influenced by these threads. "I would sigh up for that" "if that came out, I would pre-order it asap" "here, take my money". These comments are what the boutique market reacted to, and threads on TWD and TBL lead directly to these being made.

The more you do these threads, and everyone jumps on board, the more you keep new games from coming out. The fact is that in the end, many that say "I would I would", won't, and although it would likely sell some units, is a LOTR rerun really needed? No. There are many, and they are not hard to find if you want one.

Stern doing a rerun keeps other new games from coming out. How many games are not being made now because of MMR, IMr(?), and BJM? Although I'm not a fan of the home run ratio of games they crank out, I would still rather see them make new games the start thinking they can cruise along rerunning old ones - and you can bet that if Gary thinks he can cruise through another year of just recycling old titles such as LOTR, Tron, and whatever else, he will. Marked up prices for games completely designed, plus cut backs to boot (hardware changes since original runs) - "hell yeah"!

It's getting to be a dangerous time where manufacturers are trying to find ways for THEM to profit off the values of machines hobbyists have built up and maintained through selling amongst themselves, and keeping the money amongst themselves.

Be careful what you ask for.

#134 4 years ago

I must be old and loosing my hearing. I have no complaints on my whitestar lotr audio with upgraded speakers. Now my JP or SG on the other hand sound like what folks complain about.

-1
#135 4 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

How many games are not being made now because of MMR, IMr(?), and BJM?

How the f is it right or fair to lump BJM in with the other two. It's never been commercially produced, unlike those. The close-minded attitude towards games that are non-standard is exactly why we get no innovation from Stern at all.

#136 4 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

One other thing you people should be careful of before you start "virtually" pre-agreeing to these thoughts:
Companies clearly read Pinside, and are HEAVILY influenced by these threads. "I would sigh up for that" "if that came out, I would pre-order it asap" "here, take my money". These comments are what the boutique market reacted to, and threads on TWD and TBL lead directly to these being made.
The more you do these threads, and everyone jumps on board, the more you keep new games from coming out. The fact is that in the end, many that say "I would I would", won't, and although it would likely sell some units, is a LOTR rerun really needed? No. There are many, and they are not hard to find if you want one.
Stern doing a rerun keeps other new games from coming out. How many games are not being made now because of MMR, IMr(?), and BJM? Although I'm not a fan of the home run ratio of games they crank out, I would still rather see them make new games the start thinking they can cruise along rerunning old ones - and you can bet that if Gary thinks he can cruise through another year of just recycling old titles such as LOTR, Tron, and whatever else, he will. Marked up prices for games completely designed, plus cut backs to boot (hardware changes since original runs) - "hell yeah"!
It's getting to be a dangerous time where manufacturers are trying to find ways for THEM to profit off the values of machines hobbyists have built up and maintained through selling amongst themselves, and keeping the money amongst themselves.
Be careful what you ask for.

I don't think you can quantify it that easily. Taking Walking Dead as a theme that wouldn't have been done if people didn't ask for it.

Suppose Stern decided they'd do another TV show theme, and took the path of least resistance... Marvels Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. They've already done plenty of Marvel themes and know all the ins and outs of dealing with them. Would that have still been preferable?

Asking for what you want sometimes gets you want you want instead of what a company *thinks* you want. I think its better this way.

#137 4 years ago
Quoted from Hudson:

If Stern is going to stick with a single color DMD on LOTR VE, there is no way it should sell for anywhere close to the price of The Hobbit. There just isn't enough hardware there to make it cost as much. Not a wide body, no LCD, probably not color changing coded playfield LEDs etc...
Just stick with the previous minor improvement changes like they did with Iron Man to keep the cost down, and if Stern wanted to add some flair, they could put in a Color DMD.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/colordmd-announces-lotr-as-next-title-official

#138 4 years ago

Make new games, lots of lotr, tspp, trons etc out there, what I dont get is guys wanting it for 5k, you see beautiful huo machines around this price all the time, why not just buy them?

#139 4 years ago
Quoted from libtech:

Make new games, lots of lotr, tspp, trons etc out there, what I dont get is guys wanting it for 5k, you see beautiful huo machines around this price all the time, why not just buy them?

You just answered your own question, new trumps huo.

#140 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

You just answered your own question, new trumps huo.

It does? By how much?

#141 4 years ago

I'm staying away from JJP games until they can get the artwork to stay on their playfields.

#142 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It does? By how much?

Why would I spend 5k on used when I can get it new for the same price? I don't really understand your question.

#143 4 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I'm staying away from JJP games until they can get the artwork to stay on their playfields.

I'll be honest, I was all in for a TH, but after hearing this, it's tipped the scales. I'm going to just lay low with what I have for the time being. I know what I'm into with what I have, and what to expect. I'd lose my shit if that starting happening to a new game I just bought.

#144 4 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

I'll be honest, I was all in for a TH, but after hearing this, it's tipped the scales. I'm going to just lay low with what I have for the time being. I know what I'm into with what I have, and what to expect. I'd lose my shit if that starting happening to a new game I just bought.

Is this just happening with one game or a bunch? If Its one game I don't understand the concern especially if Jack had already responded and tried to make the customer happy.

#145 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Is this just happening with one game or a bunch? If Its one game I don't understand the concern especially if Jack had already responded and tried to make the customer happy.

I don't know, I asked that in the other tread but didn't get an answer. I've been getting cold feet with everything lately though, and just don't want to risk any more stress in something not being what I hoped for. I don't know, but my gut is just telling me to just stick to what I have now.

All this pre-order/boutique insanity in the last while is driving me away from the new market completely. I still feel the most comfortable with JJP for a long shot, but when I read the issues with PF's chipping, I thought - ok, that's the breaking point for me.

#146 4 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

I don't know, I asked that in the other tread but didn't get an answer. I've been getting cold feet with everything lately though, and just don't want to risk any more stress in something not being what I hoped for. I don't know, but my gut is just telling me to just stick to what I have now.
All this pre-order/boutique insanity in the last while is driving me away from the new market completely. I still feel the most comfortable with JJP for a long shot, but when I read the issues with PF's chipping, I thought - ok, that's the breaking point for me.

Well hopefully jjp will respond to these concerns, he seems to have sent a new playfield to fix that problem. I'm sure things like this happened back in the day with bally/williams. That complete plastic playfield protector is looking like a must have about now.

#147 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Well hopefully jjp will respond to these concerns, he seems to have sent a new playfield to fix that problem. I'm sure things like this happened back in the day with bally/williams. That complete plastic playfield protector is looking like a must have about now.

so after I spend $8500 on a game I need to buy playfield protection? Are you serious
For that kind of money that's F÷=% uped.

#148 4 years ago
Quoted from whitey:

so after I spend $8500 on a game I need to buy playfield protection? Are you serious
For that kind of money that's F÷=% uped.

No, I was just kidding. Nothing to see here.

How is that any different then mylar that has been put on games for the last 25 years? It's $150 and a suggestion if you are worried about wear on your machine.

#149 4 years ago

No wear on my WOZ, for what it's worth.

#150 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No, you missed my point entirely.
LOTR - TONS made, operators are over it, it's not used in tournaments, prices are "normal".
IM - Not many made, operators wanted it, tournaments wanted it, collectors wanted it, prices were going apeshit.
There was no argument against IMve...all the factors were in place, including Mustang bombing, IM license still being relevant & IM having the cheapest BOM in a Stern ever.

I think the BOM argument is way overplayed. For a game that's already been designed and engineered, what's the cost of a a few extra toys, coils, and diverters? $100?

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