(Topic ID: 94736)

Idol constantly triggering on RBION


By akm

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by liftmagnet
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

I'm trying to figure out why my idol is constantly triggering on its own on my RBION. I have read old threads about the topic, and it seems the most common cause is the window the optos shoot through gets dirty. I took the under playfield magnet and opto off, cleaned the window and opto, and it's still giving me the same problem. How common is it for the the idol/opto board to go bad? I can't think of much else that would be wrong, when I try to cut the opto connection manually (by hand) it seems like they register properly. Here's a video of the issue in action:

#2 6 years ago

If you haven't already, take some Novus 1 and clean the opto thoroughly on the playfield side (not under the playfield). This has happened on mine a few times.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from akm:

How common is it for the the idol/opto board to go bad?

Could be the board, but try replacing the optos if you haven't already. They do wear out and all the lights around the idol area will trigger phantom hits. If the other optos in the game may be factory, best to change them too. The super ramp pair are more hidden, but the shrunken head optos will act up when they get old.

#4 6 years ago

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll see what optos cost, and depending, I might try to replace those first. I've been playing with the wires disconnected and fortunately the game knows to compensate for it (the far left, lower tombstone will count as an idol hit and activate the magnet).

Since it's been mentioned, I do actually have an issue with the head opto. Although, I'm not sure if it's the opto or not--sometimes the ball will get stuck up there after hitting a lit head mode (the magnet doesn't activate and the ball sits up there). Not a huge deal, a quick slap on the side of the machine fixes it. Still, it wouldn't hurt to fix that too.

#5 6 years ago

Replace the optos. It's time. Technically, you only need to do the send (lit) side. For kicks, you can swap the send and receive sides. Assuming this hasnt been done yet, the opto that was receiving will now glow much brighter, but it looks cooler to have the lit one under the playfield.

Your magnet post has a flat spot. Replace it or if you are neat enough you can remove it, file it and reinstall it. These issues are very common to routed Ripleys.

-Jeff

1 month later
#6 6 years ago

Lifting up an older thread. Did this get solved? The reason Im asking is that Im about to get a RBION with same kind of failure.

#7 6 years ago

If the optos are intermittent, that implies they are working fine from a component standpoint. This usually is a result of cracked solder joints for the opto, or on sterns/segas with the narrow beam of light, misalignment.

First, get a white piece of paper and hold it over the receiver side (you can tell as one side is the one obviously shining a light). Hold this over the other opto that receives the light, and you can see if the bean lines up with the opto on the other side. If not, adjust.

If this is not the issue, then I would be removing both opto boards and reflowing the opto solder pads and the connections to the boards.

#8 6 years ago

This is likely a long (very), but check your tombstone and sling leaf switches. One of mine wasn't gapped right and it was awarding points on ball launch. Also, what else is on the circuit of the idol? Check them.

2 weeks later
#9 6 years ago
Quoted from RoadRunner:

Lifting up an older thread. Did this get solved? The reason Im asking is that Im about to get a RBION with same kind of failure.

Not yet. I ended up blowing my flipper transistors about a month and a half ago and so my game has been out of commission since (hopefully should be back up soon once I order some new flipper coils). The tombstone was compensating for the Idol area when I disconnected the opto boards. Doing some of the recommendations posted earlier in the thread didn't help my situation. I am probably going to take the route of picking up a new opto board, they don't seem to be too expensive. Although, I am going to give that paper trick a shot to make sure the opto beams are lining up properly.

1 year later
#10 5 years ago

Bump for same issue.

Time for a super noob question: How do I properly adjust the optos? When I use my finger to push the receiving opto off to the side to line up with the bottom opto, the problem resolves itself. How do I adjust the alignment of the optos?

I know it's likely insanely easy, but I'm still learning

#11 5 years ago

bad opto/board in video just replace both very cheap had the same issue now its perfect as far as adjustment when put back together it should be lined up unless somthings way off..... hmmmmm

#12 5 years ago

Sounds good. I'll buy a new opto set and if that doesn't work I'll trouble shoot it from there.

1 month later
#13 5 years ago

Sorry I never got back to this. I ended up replacing the opto board as well as the opto under the magnet (I didn't touch the one above the playfield, too hard to get to). It ended up fixing the issue.

The problem may have even just been the opto itself, but I replaced it and the board at the same time since it was cheap. The opto glowed much, much brighter after replacing it.

1 year later
#14 3 years ago

Help! I am having same problem. My question is that it checks fine in test mode for switch. I look at the board and it is lit very dimly and in test mode it is lit really bright. I switched the boards with the shrunken head and same result and the board works on the shrunken head. When it's not in test mode, the light on the board kind goes with GI lights when blinking. Also both lights are very dim. Could it be a ground issue?

#15 3 years ago

If you changed the board then I'd look into changing out the opto. This very issue happened on mine, I ordered the 7 Dollars opto with the leads and swapped it out. No issues since.

#16 3 years ago

Thanks for info! I thought it would not be the opto's because they work great during test mode. I wonder why the difference? Where did you order the opto with the leads? Marco's is sold out.
Thanks!

#18 3 years ago

AWESOME! Hopefully this will do the trick

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballT:

Thanks for info! I thought it would not be the opto's because they work great during test mode. I wonder why the difference? Where did you order the opto with the leads? Marco's is sold out.
Thanks!

The opto will still test fine, but start screwing up during gameplay. I had a second RBION recently and it had the same problem. Opto replacement fixed it just like on my first machine. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with a dim opto beam (it was like that on both my machines before replacing), but when you put in a new one it will shine nice and bright under the idol.

#20 3 years ago

Thanks so much!

3 years later
#21 10 months ago

Years later ... worked also for me !
I had to swap the tranmitter board under the magnet.

1 week later
#22 10 months ago

Hi guys, I'm having the same issue too. I've just bought this pinball, and it's my first pinball, so...
Could you help me to understand how to replace this part, maybe using some images?
Thank you very much

TomDK your answer is the most recent, I believe in you

#23 10 months ago

I don't have time to walk you through it, but I just bashed my head into and through the wall at this a few months ago. People say replace the optos, yes, that is the answer. However, I bought a couple sets from PinballLife and that did not work. Very long story short, I bought a set of optos from Marco and those worked fine.

I'm not even going to guess what the hell happened.

Quoted from giuseppe4:

Hi guys, I'm having the same issue too. I've just bought this pinball, and it's my first pinball, so...
Could you help me to understand how to replace this part, maybe using some images?
Thank you very much

TomDK your answer is the most recent, I believe in you

#24 10 months ago

For my friend in Rome :

Order an opto (or better 2) here:
https://www.pinballlife.com/data-eastsegastern-opto-transceiver.html

You have 2 of this optos on the IDOL. They work as transmitter and reciefer ! Therefor called TranCieverBoard.

First remove the one under the magnet. Open the playfield, locate left side the magnet with its opto. 2 screws to remove, follow the cable. Swap.

If it now works .. finde ... otherwise. On the playfield, on the plastic is the second Transciever mounted with a bracket on the plastic.
Remove, connect, test.

If it will not work ... other reason. Maybe you order such a pcb as well.
I ordered at pinballlive other stuff and put 1 transcieverboard because it was just 3,50 dollar , and lucky me ... I needet it.
Maybe you can get this opto also in Europe. Mine is working , no issues.
Ignore the rust on the pictures, this was before renovation and galvanising all parts ....

And please .. fight Corona succesfull we have flights in May to Firence and in August to San Felice Circeo

IMG_5128(1) (resized).JPGIMG_5292 (resized).JPG
#25 10 months ago

Hi Tom,

thank you very much for your super detailed answer!

Hope to fight Corona succesfull here, Florence is a beautiful city, I hope everything will be ok!

We're locked in our houses, but I'm having fun with my pinball

Anyway, I've find the opto transceiver here and I've ordered it.
https://pu-parts.com/data-east-sega-stern-opto-transceiver

I've also found a micro-switch which was constantly triggered, it was
Left jackpot loop #47

I've blended it a little bit and now it seems to trigger correctly.
Since then, I didn't have the idol constantly triggering, but maybe that's a coincidence.

I'll wait for the part and in the meantime I'll play with it

I'm having another issue on Scoop VUN #29, the switch sometimes doesn't trigger.
I've tried to adjust it but no luck, maybe I'll have to replace it, but my seller suggested me to use a Contact cleaner spray on it instead, as the replacement could not have the same adjustment of the partially working one.

#26 10 months ago

And remember .. the Idol Transciever beam is NOT always on !
Therefor one of the cables is splitted and going to the driverboard in backbox and not to the little pcb under the playfield like the other two optos !

Take care ... we are starting the same here in Germany right now !! Hopefully we can go at least in August to Italy.

#27 10 months ago

Thank you Tom, hope for the best!

5 months later
#28 5 months ago

Just curious if anyone has any new ideas, Same problem with random idol hits. New optos (PBL and Marco), new opto board, new transistor and resistors for that section of the switch matrix. Works perfectly fine in test mode, everything looks ok.

#29 5 months ago

You haven’t added any spotlights or 3rd party illumination products like Pinstadium , have you?

Quoted from liftmagnet:

Just curious if anyone has any new ideas, Same problem with random idol hits. New optos (PBL and Marco), new opto board, new transistor and resistors for that section of the switch matrix. Works perfectly fine in test mode, everything looks ok.

#30 5 months ago
Quoted from jalpert:

You haven’t added any spotlights or 3rd party illumination products like Pinstadium , have you?

No additional lighting. I have seen other posts with people claiming that the flashers have supposedly caused phantom hits with the idol; so as a test I did disconnect the lower flashers and a couple lights in that area and that had no effect.

I am curious if anyone has the specs for the leds that are used in the opto boards. I think if I can find a led with the same wavelength but with a higher mW output that would help compensate for a 16 year old hazy insert.

#31 5 months ago
Quoted from liftmagnet:

New optos (PBL and Marco)...

Those old optos are transceivers, so same part number for both sides. You weren't mixing optos from Pinball Life and Marco were you? Probably want to keep those in pairs from the same batch.

Have you tried pounding on the playfield during test or gameplay to see if you can trigger it? Cleaning that insert starting with Novus 3 and a q-tip (from the bottom) may help.

2 weeks later
2 weeks later
#33 3 months ago

I had more important things to do and other projects lately so I basicly walked away from this for the past month.

Quoted from phishrace:

Those old optos are transceivers, so same part number for both sides. You weren't mixing optos from Pinball Life and Marco were you? Probably want to keep those in pairs from the same batch.
Have you tried pounding on the playfield during test or gameplay to see if you can trigger it? Cleaning that insert starting with Novus 3 and a q-tip (from the bottom) may help.

The optos are not mixed, I originally had some from Pinball Life but read in a couple of the threads about people having issues with the the ones they got there so I ordered some from Marco witch are currently in the game. The insert I already polished up as well as possible, there is just some bad crazing that nothing short of replacing the insert will fix. I can't find anything loose and banging on the playfield or shaking the machine does not cause any reaction.

Now that I have begun to look at this problem again this is looking like some bizarre software bug, it is 100% repeatable and behaves the same way over many games.

-Ball 1 and 2 Idol will be lit at the beginning of play, it will not trigger until opto is broken and will score 1 idol hit as it should.
-Ball 3 idol will light for less than a second after ball served into shooter lane you will hear the idol audio and the opto will turn off, this is not counted as an idol hit.
-During the entire game a shot into the lower bumpers or the scoop will only light the idol for 1-2 seconds before you hear the Idol audio and the opto truns off, this also will not score an idol hit.
-During muliball the idol will be on an score hits correctly.
-The only time when I am getting extra idol hits scored is during the bonus countdown; it will add a idol hit and then score one more than the number of hits. (ie. upon draining you have 5 idol hits, when the bonus countdown starts it will always add one extra and you will hear the idol noise, the display will then tell you that you had 7 idol hits even though it only added one, beginning of the next ball it will display that you have had 6 idol hits.)

Hopefully I was clear enough in my explanation, but as I said all of this is 100% repeatable and not random at all.

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