I agree! Great idea! But first, lets get them to finish the code for games they've already released.

The best idea for earning is the simplest:

Cleaned.

Lit.

Working.

If I read correctly Skit-B is doing just this in his first game - the rules change after 250 plays. I think its a promising idea, but does not change the world. For me shots get tired feeling over time not rules, so the only solution to that is the Proc where you can change the playfield. If they change rules I would bet a small increase for a few days then a low return, only way to avoid being board is to rotate games in my opinion.

Agreed.
Most casual players don't understand the rules anyway. Changing the rules up would only confuse them. This idea would only work for the home user.

It would probably take more than new rules to get people interested again.

Maybe a kit that would have new major playfield toys, side decals and translight + new rules.

bring back the pay out days- if the gov can do it with lotto tickets why not us, let the indains do it if we dont have the balls.

The average person really doesn't go very in depth into pinball rules. Hell, from what I've seen here on Pinside, neither do quite a few collectors!! I appreciate the idea OP was suggesting but I don't think it would make any difference at all.

^^^

just looking at it from a software development/testing standpoint, it would likely have to cost more than $300 an update... say 100 people bought in... that's 30 grand, which doesn't go real far for development/testing... then the updates have to be packaged somehow, installation support provided, etc. then the company has to actually turn a profit...

and that leaves aside the fact that it seems like "unbroken initial software" seems to be an insurmountable challenge...

what looks easy and cheap on the surface probably isn't once you take a good look at the numbers...

plus as someone pointed out, the shots don't change... you'd just be executing them in a different order...

without question i would put a DATED, top 5 scores up on top of the machine with the persons name etc. maybe do it by the month, by the quarter etc? it gives people something to shoot for. at the silverball museum (asbury park nj) they even have different categories (i.e.. age groups and sex). no prizes or anything but it has made me play more to try to get on the board. much different , imho, than having the high score within the machine because one never knows how long ago it was done, if it was legit etc etc.

My only thought would have a center playfield that rotated. Like good and evil side and you had to complete a certain goal before it would change sides for another game play and rule set. This field would still connect to the ramps but would offer a different view and rules.

People need change and they also need goals which is why MMORPG do so well. Players earn visible rewards.

The AC/DC locally had the tournament going changed the top players every 30 days and you won a good chunk of money $50.00 that pin looked like it made its money back rather fast, they did all the right things, new game - tournament advertised. Only mistake is they had the replay too low I felt bad for the number of free games I got.

i think the idea is a great idea- and with ss games could be really easily done- but i just dont think the hard core players will change the ecnomics substanualy, there numbers are low habbits are set and machines are fairly cheap- of course i dont drink at the bar when i can drink more at the house for the same dime- i will play a game now and then but if i like it i just start shopping for one.

to bring about a rennasance- we need pay outs to return, more money will be infused prices would sky rocket and developments can come about- (would have 25 game makers overnight) all the games we play could actually become obsolete as em's to the ss. would be a new golden age, pinball could take in a 100 to 1 of what is dose now. will never happen but would be crazy too see.

It would be much easier than you think. People have improved lots of machines with Home Roms that were not done by teams of professionals. A single person can dramatically improve a game with bug fixes and rule changes as long as they are familiar with coding and pinball game design. If companies allowed an open source model for re-coding machines then you wouldn't even need to have paid staff creating expansion packs and additional software content.

And if machines had WIFI updates like WOZ is supposed to have you wouldn't even need to open the cabinet up to change the software. You could load a new version of the software, test it out, and if you don't like it immediately revert back to the previous version. It would be that simple. Then you could have a crowd sourced version of the software that the community could make and distribute where top players had input into the rules.

I can hardly find a place around here anymore that actually has a pinball machine you can play. But I agree with Ken though. The two places I know of around here that have one pin each (RVM, SWEP1) and they are both trashed to the point you are just throwing your money away if you play them.

nope, it wouldn't be easier than i think... modifying a few rules/fixing a few bugs is a far cry from changing an entire ruleset... but that's ok...

your second paragraph isn't as simple as you might like it to be either... while in a "perfect world" it would be, we live in a very imperfect world...

if it was that easy, initial software would work out of the box... judging from reading many posts on pinside, it generally doesn't...

And watch it earn the same as the dirty broken down games.

LTG : )

If you think the customer of a pinball machine in a location is a recurring customer, then possibly yes.

However, if the player is a casual player, then no.

We would love this, I am sure.

The casual player does not even know the first ruleset.

or release the game with good code and then 6 months in release a second set of rules = like transformers you select one or the other side at the beginning of the game.

Say in Avengers
set 1 = lhs flipper button on start up = goal is to fight loki anjd build the team and save the world
set 2 = rhs flipper button on start up = goal is you are loki and you need to kill off the avengers and take over the world

Another idea is get to a certain stage and receive a flipper code (2 x lhs, 3 x rhs, 1 x lhs flashed at the end of a game on the dmd) and then another game could be started part way in when more money is chucked in, eg achieved 3 of the avengers including some versa's modes - good for operators so people have a chance to get through some of the tough rule sets and want to come back to complete the game. Sometimes it is tough enough doing it at home imagine paying at a arcade to get through the rules and complete the game. This function could be an operator option and does not work when on free play ???? The good thing with this the game only gets harder and the money goes just as fast but gives visitors a chance to really complete a game.

the problem with moving to pay outs would be that companies would start designing their pins like gambling devices rather then for fun. No one would want to waste space on pins that pay out too often so they would be less skill and more controlled pay outs like slots.

Most people don't even realize a pinball machine has rules. Their knowledge of rules doesn't go any deeper than pushing the flipper buttons (often at the same time) and trying to keep the ball in play. That is, if they can find the start button.

Operators want regular players. Not players that will only play something that is new. When arcades were popular in this country, people didn't stop playing TAF when STTNG came out a year later.

Appreciate you playing on location, but I wish you enjoyed playing older games on location too. A well maintained older game can be just as much fun (or more) than a shiny new game.

And why is this? Is it not obvious enough with the score cards, instructions on screen, and call-outs? Not to mention stuff is written all over the playfield to give you an idea of what each shot does.

This is why I think the on-screen instructions and videos WOZ will have are so important. The fact the game has a large display nobody has ever seen on a pin gets kids interested, and while they're interested they will see how shots on the playfield correspond to events on the screen as well as instructions during attract mode. Heck, if there is going to be a way to display instructions/videos in attract mode by pressing both flippers or something that would be awesome. Then use the flipper buttons to cycle through each tip.

Yes, his simple little plan left out the most important part. Customers. Can't have good earnings without customers. Very important ingredient.

Wonder how often he plays on location?

Because people are basically lazy and just want to have fun, not learn something.

Something as simple as Roadshows high score and daily high score table are nice. Most casual players won't ever make the hs tale on a game, but a daily one everyone gets a chance to put in their name.

well, in the usa at least, the big problem with payouts is that it would be considered gambling, and it would completely kill off machines on location...

Not necessarily lazy.

Too many times video game and pinball machine manufacturers have forgotten it is coin operated entertainment.

People want to have fun. Put in money, have fun. Pretty basic concept.

They don't want coin op job, they want coin op fun.

And historically my industry did good in bad times because it was cheap entertainment. Well this last down turn around 2005 my industry didn't fare so well.

And I believe because as people work longer and harder for less. They still want fun. Not a fookin job after a long day of work.

LTG : )

And most states want gambling. They don't want partners.

And casinos, forget it. Pinball is too high a maintenance item to even be considered.

LTG : )

Here's a big one: Teach kids how to play pinball. I'm thinking of Pinball classes at a local arcade. The teacher can be a local pinball club member or someone like Keith Elwin.

Honestly if pinball isn't fun I don't know what is. At the very least you're sending balls flying up ramps, smacking into targets, starting awesome light shows, etc. That's the what average player sees pinball as who doesn't realize there is a ruleset. Meanwhile video games are more complex. A fighting game? Choose a character, stage, learn the controls, learn that character's moveset, THEN enjoy the game. Racing? Choose a car, track, tweak that car's specs, learn the handing, learn the CPU players, THEN enjoy. Video games are more involved and have patterns that will quickly bore you, pinball is easy to get into due to the fact that it is both familiar (flippers and balls), yet unique (game-specific rulesets). And even then, you never have the same game twice because it's all physical interaction.

true to both posts lloyd...

personally, i don't want to put that much thought and effort into playing pinball... i just want to play... if i really wanted to think and "complete a journey", i'd play video games...

I don't know, I see both sides and it's a vicious circle type scenario. If a machine isn't cosmetically good, you might not put a quarter into it, but if it's not interesting you might not put a quarter into it as well. Tough call, polish up a turd for maybe nothing, or, leave it a turd and pull in the same...

There are some exceptions today I think, if you have highly regarded machines I think giving them a good cleaning and attention can only be a positive investment of time. It's these classic machines that draw people, why not make it as an amazing experience as possible.

Run competitions

Lloyd, I have heard you mention this several times. Are you saying this is typical within your place, or typical comparing your place to other locations nearby?

In my (very) limited experience operating so far, and operating a 20+ year old machine at that, I have found my machines are crushing the local op's machines, which are usually in poor condition, operationally and cosmetically.

-Mark

Yes I am saying it is my experience.

Not a day goes by I don't have someone complaining about pinball machines some place. Not level, not clean, broken, don't make refunds. Yet they patronize them.

I've even had players ask if I couldn't go to some of these places and fix their machines up.

Seems I get the complaints and someone else gets the money.

Strange market out there.

LTG : )

Ugh...perhaps you should let your machines get nasty, and increase prices by 25%? Make all kinds of unfriendly homemade signs, saying "ABSOLUTELY NO REFUNDS! PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK!"?

"BEWARE OF LTG!"

Trade in your "A" titles for "C" titles? You know, the ones that get no love, and you can't find anywhere?

Counterintuitive marketing?

-Mark

I patronize them too, those stupid bastards.

Honestly, I wish the casual gamer had some idea of how to play pinball.

I feel like they've gotten so unobservant that it would benefit them to put little signs in the games indicating where third and fourth flippers are.

As for rules, the only rule the casual gamer cares about is don't let the ball go down the middle. If pinball ever became overwhelmingly popular (to the point where the majority of players are aware of there being rules), people would enjoy pinball much more, and it would further add to it's popularity.

Alas, that will definitely never happen. Oh well, more pinball for us.

Right Whysnow, today you have to appeal to the pinball fanatics rather than drawing in the new player (hopefully not for too much longer). The only way to do that as an op (in my opinion, I've never been one) is to provide excellence in experience.

Unfortunately, if one location can offer liquor and food while you play, that's hard to beat. Their machines might totally suck, but beer and chicken wings will prevail....unfortunately.

In answer to the original question, I found rotation keeps pins earning. Bring in a pin that has not been on that location, and watch it earn solid for 3 months. Rinse, repeat.

Problem is pins are expensive, and you don't earn it's worth in 3 months

Lol, should the OP stand beside you while you play, soldering iron in hand ready to fix?

Games break down, the OPS have lives to, and for many this is just for the love of the game.

Yeah, that's the hard part. If you empty the cash box, you should at least put your best foot forward in keeping the games in tip top shape. We all understand that shit happens, but if it isn't fixed in a week...that isn't shit happens.

Pretty much what I do.

LTG : )

That's senseless, someone works 40 hours to shop/restore a game, a switch comes loose in transport, and you won't play it?? Tell me you're kidding.

Haha, those were my initial thoughts as well. If that's what it takes to operate pinball, I am screwed!

The statement has since been clarified.

-Mark

Put a 20 dollar bill up if you get high score.

No credit dot