(Topic ID: 201844)

I500 completely dead

By maestro

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

I haven't had issues with it before now. I was playing as normal. Suddenly the game rebooted and then none of the coils would fire. Well when I started a game the coil that feeds the ball to the shooter was firing very weak... enough to raise the ball but not enough to make it leave the plunger much less get into the shooter lane. None of the flashers would work either. I checked and I believe it was Fuse 111 blown. I replaced with the appropriate fuse and turn the machine on. It came on just enough for the DMD to flash the splash page and the game shut down. It will not turn on at all now. I left the game alone and have been out of town since. I return tonight and would like some advice from anyone willing to point me in the right direction to start checking. I've heard bridge rectifiers can wreak havoc. I am not familiar with how to check them but I am a fast learner. Thanks to all who reply. I'll post again as soon as I get home and get to check things further.

#2 6 years ago

Somebody help this poor guy out!
THE HORROR!

#3 6 years ago

The whimpy solenoids make is sound like not the typical 5V bridge problem. Start simple and look at the power cord that runs from the wall to the back of the cabinet. It is a tpical computer type cord. unplug it from the cabinet and make sure the contacts are in good shape. If they are, check the voltage you have at the service outlet inside the bottom cabinet.

From there, tell us which LEDs on the driver board are lit, or unlit.

BTW F111 is for the flash lamps.

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

Somebody help this poor guy out!
THE HORROR!

A horror indeed! I love this pin.

The contacts in the cord and the contact in the cabinet it connects to look nice and shiny. I checked power at the voltage at the service plug and its 121.4V which is exactly what I get at the wall socket.

I remembered wrong. It is the F112 solenoid secondary fuse that blew. F111 is fine. Also the main line filter fuse was blown and this is of course why the game shut down dead. I replaced it and left the f112 blown fuse in rather than replace it at this point. It fires up just fine. Of course no solenoids or flashers.

One thing to note. This is apparently a re-import. The sticker inside states it runs on 230V and it has a 5A SB fuse rather than the 8A fuse listed for domestic games. 5A slow blow is listed for the foreign game. Not sure if I should replace with a regular 8A fuse since its been converted or leave it alone. Better to be under fused than over and its not blown before.

As far as LEDs on the driver board; There are 4 of them and all are lit solid. I reseated all the connectors for the solenoids (j107, j122, j126, j127, j130, j902, j907). All look proper adn were seated well. All the contacts and connectors look shiny. However when I got to GI connectors J120 looks fine but J121 has been hacked (before me). I know I need to replace this and put on a new connector. I believe I have the correct tools to do this as I anticipated in the past I will probably end up needing to do this one day. However my GI is working fine. Would this be a culprit to the F112 and line filter fuse blowing?

A bit more inspection and the boards are very snug and screwed in tightly so they are not loose from their mounts. BR 3 and 4 look as if they have gotten warm over time. Can be seen in the pictures I'm including as well as pic of the hacked molex J121 and pics of the board with LED's lit. The flash makes it hard to tell but yes the LED's are lit solid.

I really dont want to replace the F112 fuse until I can figure out what is going on.

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#5 6 years ago

AHA! I missed LED5. It is not lighting up. But when I shut the coin door it lights up. LED's 2 and 3 are not installed on this board.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from maestro:

It is the F112 solenoid secondary fuse that blew.

Start with a check on bridgerectifier BR.3, here is a way with board still installed:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-fuse-blowing#post-2654023

* note that the Addams in that instruction has a separate supply for the fliptronic board so here with I-500 you want to check BR.1 on FlipTronic2.

And reseat ribboncables from CPU- to Fliptronic-board

#7 6 years ago

I don't think the GI connector has anything to do with this problem but you are right, that needs to be addressed someday. When replacing the connector, you might want to replace the header pins too as if they got hot, the plating on the pins could be oxidized which will cause problems.

I would put the correct line fuse in place for domestic games. The smaller fuse being stressed and as it failed, could have caused this issue. When you run the game at 230V, you need less current to run the game. At 120V, you need more which is why the larger fuse.

It sounds like with the new line fuse in place the game starts up normally. Since all the power LEDs are lit, I would put in F112, close the coin door and see if everything works. Pay close attention to the game for locked on coils and such and be prepared to turn it off if something isn't quite right.

#8 6 years ago

I replace the line fuse with an 8A. Replaced the F112 fuse. Turned it one fine. As soon as I shut the coin door F112 flashed and blew. No hesitation. All the solenoids; shooter feeder, shooter, slings, turbo feeder and pops will give a weak pulse when their switch is activated but no indication of power at all in solenoid test mode. The flippers don't try to work either way. I moved all these coils' plunders and mechanics by hand from underneath the playfield and they all move freely. I don't think I have stuck. When I shut the coin door the fuse blew and I didn't see or hear anything trying to engage.

I will look into the BR after lunch. The kids are calling me.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Start with a check on bridgerectifier BR.3, here is a way with board still installed:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-fuse-blowing#post-2654023
* note that the Addams in that instruction has a separate supply for the fliptronic board so here with I-500 you want to check BR.1 on FlipTronic2.
And reseat ribboncables from CPU- to Fliptronic-board

At tp6 pin 5 on j102 I get 0.448 pin 8 is 0.461. TP 5 pin 5 is 0.457 pin 8 is 0.464.

#10 6 years ago

That seems ok.

2nd possibility is the bridge rectifier on the Fliptronic board.
Best is to take it out and measure BR1 with RED lead on (-) and BLACK lead on both (~)
Then Black lead on (+) and RED lead on both (~)
Values should be ~460mV

#11 6 years ago

If it blows the second you close the coin door, without a game even going. You have a dead short somewhere in your coils. Either a diode is shot, or something is touching that shouldn't be. Unplug the solinoid connectors from the board. Turn it on. If it doesn't blow you know it's on the playfield.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

If it blows the second you close the coin door, without a game even going. You have a dead short somewhere in your coils. Either a diode is shot, or something is touching that shouldn't be. Unplug the solinoid connectors from the board. Turn it on. If it doesn't blow you know it's on the playfield.

I pulled j107, j116,j907, j130, j127, j126, j122, j902. I turned it on with coin door open. As soon as I shut the coin door I heard a buzz, not sure where it came from, and F112 blew.

#13 6 years ago

Ok, checked out BR1. Red lead to neg got me 427 and 437 readings. Black lead to pos got me 447 on leg counter clockwise and no reading on leg clockwise from the pos lead. I removed the BR from the board and checked again. Same readings. Do we have the culprit? Pic included shows the legs showing no reading.

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#14 6 years ago

Although an 'open' diode won't blow the fuse, it is certainly not ok. Maybe the last try with F112 blew the diode open instead of a short, who knows.
Replace bridge + fuse and install everything back into place except J104 on the powerdriverboard.
Power machine up, fuse ok ?
Power OFF, re-connect J104 and start machine again, fuse ok ?

#15 6 years ago

Sounds good. I hate waiting on parts. Have to order that one. I'll be back on it next weekend. Stay tuned.

#16 6 years ago

you have another WPC95 game you can swap boards with?

#17 6 years ago

I500 is WPC-S so WPC95 will not be of any help.

#18 6 years ago

that's what I ment. I typed it in wrong. I was thinking of shadow and I500 and such.

#19 6 years ago

Yes. The power driver board is the same in the WPC and WPC-S so you can swap one into I500 to continue testing out I500 as you wait on your parts to repair the board.

#20 6 years ago

Ok, didn't think of that. I've got a dh, wcs and a ij. One of those should work. I'll swap the board in and give it a shot.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from maestro:

I've got a dh, wcs and a ij.

Also BOP and BSD if your collection list is up to date.

#22 6 years ago

lots of PS boards to choose from then. that really helps narrow the problem in a hurry.

#23 6 years ago

I swapped in the board from BSD. With J104 plugged in and coin door closed fuse does not blow. I get the single pong in booting up. However the DMD has lots of vertical lines and does not try to produce any images. Also the game does not make any sound through the speakers and try to boot into attract mode. I cannot start a game or go into test menu and try to test solenoids. LED D21 lights solid o the CPU board. The other 2 don't come on at all. Is this normal since the board came from BSD? I put the board from WCS in I500, same thing. Board from BSD to WCS and everything booted fine.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from maestro:

With J104 plugged in and coin door closed fuse does not blow.

Sounds like a good sign since that is what zaza asked you to do. Seems the original driver board does have a problem. So after this, did you plug the remaining connectors in?

#25 6 years ago
Quoted from maestro:

LED D21 lights solid o the CPU board.

If the game does not boot, then nothing else matters. If all the connectors are plugged in on the driver board, disconnect the ribbon cables on the CPU board. Does it boot now? If so, reseat all 4 of the ribbon cable connections on the 4 connector ribbon cable.

Quoted from maestro:

The other 2 don't come on at all.

This sounds like J101, J114, and/or J210 are disconnected. Are by chance?

#26 6 years ago

Everything is plugged in. Checked and rechecked. I unplugged the 4 ribbon cable from the cpu and the game booted completely and leds flash and light properly. No blowing fuses. The dmd still looks messed up. Could quite possibly be the dmd as I've had to reflow connectors before. I reseated the dmd connectors and it didn't help. I will try one of my other dmds to troubleshoot that. When I plugged the 4 ribbon cable back to the cpu it won't boot. I reseated all 4 connectors and it did not help.

#27 6 years ago

Sounds like it maybe time for a new 4 conductor ribbon cable. Check carefully that you do not have a bent male board pin that the ribbon cable plugs into.

#28 6 years ago

how was that DMD before you started? an outgassed DMD can draw extra power. I've had it happen in the past. Maybe the DMD is lowering your voltage. Have a spare you can swap in for test purposes?

#29 6 years ago

Probably should even check the voltages on the DMD power connector.

#30 6 years ago

I will check the dmd voltages, carefully go over the pins for the ribbon cables, swap in a good dmd and another ribbon cable from another hame as well as put in the ne br on the original board. Unfortunately this all has to wait til next saturday. I'm out of time this weekend. Thanks for the help and suggestions. Stay tuned.

#31 6 years ago

New BR1 fixed the problem with the blowing fuse. I hang my head and say the DMD problem was I was off a row on one of my ribbon cable connections. Thanks everyone for the support. I love this community for reasons like this. World class guys on here.

Side note; I checked the BR readings on the board I pulled from BSD for kicks. I couldn't get readings off it. The game plays well except once ever other game or so the mist ball just drops out without activating mist mb. The magnet doesnt start across the pf the ball just drops and you get two balls in play. When one drains it doesn't count the ball drain. You lose the ball whenever the second last ball in play drains but when the first one drains it does go ahead and reload the mist ball. Could this possibly be a BR1 issue?

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from maestro:

Side note; I checked the BR readings on the board I pulled from BSD for kicks. I couldn't get readings off it. The game plays well except once ever other game or so the mist ball just drops out without activating mist mb. The magnet doesnt start across the pf the ball just drops and you get two balls in play. When one drains it doesn't count the ball drain. You lose the ball whenever the second last ball in play drains but when the first one drains it does go ahead and reload the mist ball. Could this possibly be a BR1 issue?

No. Sounds like you have an opto problem. Remove the ball from the mist ball staging area. Go into the switch test and then run your finger in the middle of the playfield breaking the opto light perpendicular to where the mist ball runs across the playfield. It should register as 'Magnet On' opto. If it doesn't, then you have to check the transmitter with a digital camera or cell phone camera to see if it is lit on the right. If it is not lit, then you need to replace it.

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