The word around the bonfire (of JJP TS4 machines burning in the middle of the witches circle last night) is that Toy Story aficionados who have control of that big block of disposable income cheese got their first “bad taste” of TS4 at the movies… JJP TS4 is just a continuous reminder to all REAL fans of the franchise of how big a blunder the whole forth installment of the movie was. Sporky is the Jar Jar Binks and TS4 is the Phantom Menace of the Toy Story franchise we all wished had never ever been put to celluloid. That being said, the number of people who liked the movie and the number of people who love owning pinball machines in their home seems to be an exclusionary subset of Pinball fanatics everywhere, me included. And yes, I think this is a “phoned it in” table design by Pat Lawlor, the lack of toys that actually interact with the ball (where the franchise name is literally and actually ‘toy’ ) is not just laughable, it is almost criminal. Enough said.

Me either- I’ve asked my pinball buying buddies (who also like the TS franchise) what made them pass on TS4 pinball, and their overall response was they hated the TS4 movie. Just my experience. So why else isn’t JJP TS4 flying out the warehouse doors? Lack of Toys? And once again, they ended up with a “Combat Carl” situation with Duke Caboom instead of Evil Knievel. This is one dead Bullseye we keep whipping on, but I’d rather own a Stern these days if what I get is a Godzilla Premium for less than a JJP TS4.

So when he flips it there will be less than 301 games on it?

TS4… the jury has come in.

The bailiff says “All rise while the jury is being seated”

Jury sits.

The judge-“Please be seated…”

Pinside sits.

The judge- “Mr. Foreman, have you and the jury reached a verdict?”

PanzerFreak- “Yes, your honor, we have.”

The judge- “Bailiff, please publish the jury’s verdict”

Bailiff- “the TS4 machine, although based on the less liked 4th installment of the franchise, overpriced, and lacking in actual mechanical toys, is, once acquired and played, a not as bad as we initially thought, fun to play, packed with questionably defined toys, but “may not be in my collection 3 years from now” run of the mill pinball machine.

The judge- “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, thank you for your service, court is adjourned.

Well said.

I hated the TS4 movie. The reason is I hated the new characters they added. JJP took the TS franchise, followed the original IP owners desires and promoted the latest incarnation of it. Was that a misstep for the franchise and pinball? I think so. I think a good number of pinheads were expecting a generic application of the theme as an homage, not a chapter specific machine focused solely on the fourth installment. What I felt like after seeing the movie was “Cash Grab!” and the pinball machine, with it’s lack of toys echoes that sentiment. You may enjoy both, but the reason I don’t like the pinball machine is inexplicably linked to my distaste of sporks.

Agree for brand new titles, but the CGC remakes are also worth it for retro entertainment under $10k for a NIB classic 90’s pin. My MBrLE was a freaking steal at todays inflated and bloated prices, and their classics are still under 10k.

The idea of “I could have bought 2 NIB Stern pros!” is the poor TS4’s owners worst face palm moment to have to witness. I mean yeah, we are talking Pro machines, but come on, the thought has some serious merit, and would even make an old “premium only” guy like me rub my chin at least once before dismissing it out of hand. TMSFY

oops! I forgot, the right term now for TMSFY is YMMV*.

*- see the pinball pet peeves thread to understand the TMSFY / YMMV argument.

My initial thought for purchasing my first was “how many saved quarters would it take to justify the eventual $750 price tag?” Which turned out to be 750x4=3000 games, so by simple math, if I own it for 20 years, that means to pay it off I need to play a single game every two days. At $8300 shipped, however, my MBrLE requires a game a day minimum for 20+ years. Not sure how many games of Pinbot I’ve played in the 31 years I’ve owned it, but pretty certain it saved me money in the end, including maintenance. Now the MBrLE, if I maintain my current average plays per year of 666, that 20 years dwindles down to a little bit more than 12.5 years to pay it off. Unfortunately I will most likely not make it that far due to liver cancer, but I would have had a shot at it otherwise. But reality these days is you buy them to have access to play them, thus not relying on anyone else for your pinball addiction fix. But after years of owning the same machines, looking back, I might have been better served by trading them around so I had access to more titles. Currently owning 8 is a good roomfull of fun at the drop of a hat, but I’d own probably 16 if I had the room.

Stern has customer support? Was unaware.

If Spooky can get their build quality up to match CGC, or API, then those prices are at least highly competitive. So far, I have not played a spooky title that has risen to that level, but Scooby may put them ahead of JJP when comparing their latest offerings.

What you are referring to is a nonsymetric bottom end, like most of his pins. And yes, this makes things different from your too common fan layouts that support the PRO formula of 2 ramps, 2 returns, an Italian bottom, and an open center playfield, rinse, repeat.

Eric at JJP was good at it in POTC, Elwin knows how too. There are a lot of newer designs these days that dabble in it- DP comes to mind.

For it to be Lawlor's swan song, TS4 sure felt like you threw him, the TS4 licence, NNG, WW&TCF and a pair of TS and WW slot machines into a room, and the TS4 machine was the only thing that freakishly walked "mummy-like" out, one hobled leg being drug behind it.

"Hey Pat, did you leave your iPad mini laying in the white wood? I think they bolted it down and sent the whole damn thing to production."

"Oh- , um, well, shit."

Yeah, seems Pat only had 2/3 of a design left in him and just threw a display across the rest. Not convinced that this was anything near his best effort.

You might enjoy owning and playing it, and I will play it in the future, but for the same money, I'd go buy Earth shaker and Whirlwind or any combo of his earlier works and be more satisfied with how I spent my $$$

I don't know, I'm a real people... uh, person. And I love trash talking anything I think is trash. TS4 the movie fit that bill for me, so undoubtedly I'm all in on TS4 the pinball machine.

But from a pinball perspective, I'm in the "Pat has made too many good machines for this turd to be his last" camp and I'll gladly tell anyone interested about it. Your opinion may differ, but anyone who has played every Pat L. game like I have might come to a similar conclusion. I'm not a mech/toy counter snob but the ability for Pat to make magic with less resources than what bang he got for his JJP buck on TS4 has been proven by a very extensive catalog of better Lawlor games. Just saying.

you think?!?

+1 on weak wonka flippers… on every machine I feel like I have to coax the flipper after flipping it, just to give the ball hope it might make the ramp.

“Come on, little buddy, you can do it!…”
“You sorry ass piece of shit- you call that a ramp shot?!?!”

PanzerFreak … Bond 60th finally makes TS4 look like a huge bargain…

I just spent $1200 on a decent Gottlieb King of Diamonds, and I get old school score reels, backglass animation, and period Sean Connery flatwood fun for less than one-sixteenth of the cost of a Bond 60th. Anyone else feel the Stern laser target illuminator heating up their sphincter?

I think Bond 60th SLE made talking about TS4 a moot thing. I seriously think anyone who bought TS4 and passed on Bond 60th made the best decision. I really was down on TS4 until seeing that, and the real winner in my book is the guy who bought TS4 and a Premium GG Bond and passed on the flatwood.