(Topic ID: 325695)

Flip-flop: I was wrong about Toy Story 4 - what a great pin - initial thoughts

By PanzerFreak

1 year ago


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  • 696 posts
  • 144 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 49 days ago by Jaytech10
  • Topic is favorited by 14 Pinsiders

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There are 696 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 14.
#51 1 year ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

A lazy playfield design + a bizarre mishandling of the Toy Story license + a lack of toys on a pin called Toy Story + a screw-the-customer price tag...
Are any of those not true? If even one is true, it would be bad. But all four is a pinball train wreck.

So if I buy a CE for 15k and sell it in 2-3 years for $13k-$14k, that’s screwing the customer? I don’t see it….

#52 1 year ago

played that a ton at Expo...show winner for me.

A great looking, fun game...that's all I'm looking for in a pin

Oh yea, best topper ever!

#53 1 year ago

I did not pay retail for mine, but I also really like it at 100 games in. This is my first JJP - The build quality is top notch and the topper is one of the better ones. Every other game I own is highly regarded by pinside and Toy Story stands up well against all of them. The rules are very easy to follow and the flow is great. I was disappointment the week of the reveal with the lack of toys and choice of just the last movie, but i haven’t felt like the game was missing anything. The light show is incredible and by far the best in my collection. The Duke Kaboom shot is really satisfying and it’s cool how the topper provides a payoff when you hit it. Once people move on from the price, I think this is a pin that will be highly regarded long term. Like many other have also said, this is also a favorite of the non pinheads in my life.

#54 1 year ago

It’s better than Willy Wanka but it’s another Lawlor rehash of a couple of his games. Pat should have stopped at dialed in and called it a day. Game is pretty easy and apeals to kids and new pinball players however not worth the price but the secondary market is fixing that issue. I wouldn’t rush and buy NIB plenty of disappointed FOMO boyz selling.

#55 1 year ago

Glad to read you're enjoying your purchase. Supposed to be fun getting a new pin.

#56 1 year ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Glad to read you're enjoying your purchase

They didn't purchase it, it was a trade.

#57 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

They didn't purchase it, it was a trade.

Yeah, I traded a game with a good amount of value for the Toy Story. My thinking was my low play HUO Ghostbusters premium (no topper but lots of other mods) is worth $13k (maybe more, maybe less, just looked at market history), and a NIB Toy Story CE $13.5k - $14k so the trade was fair. I bought the Ghostbusters new back in 2017.

#58 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

They didn't purchase it, it was a trade.

It still cost $$. Unless he traded it for Magic Beans.

#59 1 year ago

Finally got to play one this past weekend at Arcade Expo. Initial thoughts were positive. Game looks incredible and flipped well. Love the carnival theme and lighting. Tablet was terrible, though. I'm guessing it's one purpose was to have the video pinball mini game which was miserable to play. I can see the game being fun at home for the whole family if you can hear the audio and learn all the rules. But that is true with about any game. Honestly, I forgot about the game after just a couple of plays.

#60 1 year ago

It’s a great game. Huge fun factor. It’s comical how whipped up into a frenzy Pinside gets. My family happens to love the theme so no amount of Pinside hate would dissuade us from trying/buying our TS4CE. For me it’s dialed In with a familiar theme and I enjoy it more than Wonka. Shoots smoother than Wonka and as smooth as Dialed In.

For ALL JJP games and I am many sure Stern games too, there are party-line talking points that get traction when a game is released. I have found most if not all to be not true or exaggerated.

For Wonka, it was that it sounded like a slot machine. For GNR, it was multiball madness. For Dialed In it was a bad theme. Woz was too slow, same with Hobbit. Pirates not enough theme integration.

#61 1 year ago
Quoted from Noma2017:

It’s comical how whipped up into a frenzy Pinside gets. My family happens to love the theme so no amount of Pinside hate would dissuade us from trying/buying our TS4CE.

You can say the same thing about people in denial of actual criticisms of the game and have to immediately deem them as hate. I own a Halloween and can accept certain people don't like the layout or upper playfields, it's not hate just preference.

#62 1 year ago

it's far too easy for a 13k toy

#63 1 year ago
Quoted from SonOfaDiddly:

it's far too easy for a 13k toy

These threads always get weird.

Is a toy worth more money if it’s difficult?

I played the game at OBX tournament last weekend, and they “easily” made the game more difficult. Turn off ball save, remove a rubber or two, make settings harder. It was challenging to have good / long games on it.

My main complaint with the game is for all the rules, modes, and shots, the game really boils down to: shoot the left drop target, lock balls, multiball. That’s where ALL the points seemed to be. When I started ignoring everything else (including no longer taking shots with the upper right flipper) my scores started to get much much better.

Not a recipe for a game I’d want to have around for any length of time.

#64 1 year ago

Came here to check the JJP lovefest thread especially when I saw it was by Panzer. This pin is bad and when you have to list "drop target" and "pop up posts" under toys and mechs to make it look like it has a lot compared to modern pins? C'mon people, the game is not loaded and for a normal JJP game it still falls way short.

#65 1 year ago
Quoted from CoachBacca:

Came here to check the JJP lovefest thread especially when I saw it was by Panzer. This pin is bad and when you have to list "drop target" and "pop up posts" under toys and mechs to make it look like it has a lot compared to modern pins? C'mon people, the game is not loaded and for a normal JJP game it still falls way short.

The sad laundry list of “toys/mechs” does seem to reek of desperation, especially coming from “Mr. Toy.”

#66 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The sad laundry list of “toys/mechs” does seem to reek of desperation, especially coming from “Mr. Toy.”

He listed posts as toys/mechs, lol.

#67 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

These threads always get weird.
Is a toy worth more money if it’s difficult?
I played the game at OBX tournament last weekend, and they “easily” made the game more difficult. Turn off ball save, remove a rubber or two, make settings more difficult.
My main complaint with the game is for all the rules, modes, and shots, the game really boils down to: shoot the left drop target, lock balls, multiball. That’s where ALL the points seemed to be.

Right, there's different ways both good and bad that a game can be either easy or hard. Is the wizard mode in Toy Story 4 easier to reach then say Somewhere over the Rainbow or There and Back Again in Hobbit? Yes. Which wizard mode appears far more enjoyable to play? Toy Story's as there's actually multiple stages to it, many unique animations, two different paths, etc. As I mentioned before more coding effort went into Toy Story's wizard then most pins where all the balls are just dumped onto the playfield and you hit random jackpot shots to little mode choreography. Getting to the Toy Story's wizard mode isn't easy either, just more doable then the Somewhere over the Rainnow and Valinor style wizard modes. I don't think that's bad thing when there's plenty else to do in the game with multiballs, collecting characters, 11 carnival modes, and of course the 7 objectives just to attempt the wizard mode.

#68 1 year ago
Quoted from CoachBacca:

He listed posts as toys/mechs, lol.

I put pop up posts under a list as toys / mechs. The pop up posts are a mech so what's your point? We are not talking about stationary posts. There's items in your Avengers premium that may be considered mechs over toys so again I don't see your point other then as with CrazyLevi you are purposely trying to be rude.

#69 1 year ago
Quoted from CoachBacca:

Came here to check the JJP lovefest thread especially when I saw it was by Panzer. This pin is bad and when you have to list "drop target" and "pop up posts" under toys and mechs to make it look like it has a lot compared to modern pins? C'mon people, the game is not loaded and for a normal JJP game it still falls way short.

I was simply listing all the toys and mechs in the game, wow does that really upset all of the JJP haters off. Don't do as then their argument doesn't stick.

I would put all the mechs and toys in Toy Story 4 and say there's just more in it then Bond. A moving Bond on a stick toy, a vibrating rocket, and a vertical up kicker that goes through a plastic car. That's it, yup there's more in Toy Story.

#70 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I put all the items under a list as toys / mechs. The posts are a mech so what your point? There's items in your Avengers premium that would be considered mechs over toys so again I don't see your point other then as with CrazyLevi you are purposely trying to be rude.

No I am saying that an argument for having lots of toys and mechs should never include posts. Think about that. Who cares about a moving post in a game. I don't like my AIQ for the toys and mechs but when you add posts to a list of toys and mechs, like CrazyLevi said, it looks desperate. No one is trying to be rude here just telling you, these types of comments don't do for the game what you think it does. It makes the game look silly or worse to some.

#72 1 year ago
Quoted from CoachBacca:

No I am saying that an argument for having lots of toys and mechs should never include posts. Think about that. Who cares about a moving post in a game. I don't like my AIQ for the toys and mechs but when you add posts to a list of toys and mechs, like CrazyLevi said, it looks desperate. No one is trying to be rude here just telling you, these types of comments don't do for the game what you think it does. It makes the game look silly or worse to some.

People care about things that move and interactive with the ball in a pinball machine. I was simply listing pop up posts under toys / mechs. It's a mechanical feature of the game. There's a few people on here that don't want those items to be discussed as it goes against their argument of "There's no mechs in Toy Story" which is completely false.

-1
#73 1 year ago

correction: steaming pile of flop with FOUR pops and TWO moving posts!!

There’s also a real (NOT VIRTUAL!) kickback!!

#74 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I was simply listing pop up posts under toys / mechs. It's a mechanical feature of the game.

But at that point, so are flippers and slings. Up posts don't move the needle for anyone.

#75 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

correction: steaming pile of flop with FOUR pops and TWO moving posts!!
There’s also a real (NOT VIRTUAL!) kickback!!

I know Crazy, isn't a real kickback something? It must surprise you that your precious do not wrong Stern hasn't used one in a while. Do you think Stern could actually put a real kickback in a game again instead of cheapening out with virtual kickbacks?

#76 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I know Crazy, isn't a real kickback something? It must surprise your precious Stern hasn't used one in a while. Do you think Stern could actually put a real kickback in a game again instead of cheapening out with virtual kickbacks.

Stern needs to focus on the 27" TV in the backbox first....then worry about the kickback.

#77 1 year ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

But at that point, so are flippers and slings. Up posts don't move the needle for anyone.

No, flippers and slings are standard items in a game. How many games have non standard pop up posts in the middle of the playfield that are used with a jump ramp and others modes? Again it's not a standard item as with flippers, slings, standup targets, etc.

-2
#78 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I know Crazy, isn't a real kickback something? It must surprise you that your precious do not wrong Stern hasn't used one in a while. Do you think Stern could actually put a real kickback in a game again instead of cheapening out with virtual kickbacks?

My Rush cost me $6,000. I don’t give a fuck if it has a “real” kickback lol.

Your list is pathetic. It’s a $12,000 game.

And When I’m sick of rush, I’ll just trade it for some other $6,000 stern pro without a kickback (just like I traded an AIQ for this) while you are stuck with a boat anchor.

Enjoy!

#79 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

My Rush cost me $6,000. I don’t give a fuck if it has a “real” kickback lol.
Your list is pathetic. It’s a $12,000 game.
And When I’m sick of rush, I’ll just trade it for some other $6,000 stern pro without a kickback (just like I traded an AIQ for this) while you are stuck with a boat anchor.

There's plenty of other items in the game, both feature, mech and software wise then a real kickback. Also, you may want to ask yourself what you are getting for $7k with a NIB Stern pro. When there's not much in the game other then ramps and orbits I wouldn't exactly be bragging about having "only" spent $6k. Pricing is crazy across all models from both Stern and JJP. The days of the old value argument are pretty much gone.

On a side note what is with your need to be consistently so rude to other Pinsiders? Why can't you just let people enjoy a game and praise it without attacking them? Good luck selling your Avengers, I would never deal with buying a game from someone who is so condescending and rude to fellow Pinside members. Be nice

-3
#80 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

No, flippers and slings are standard items in a game. How many games have non standard pop up posts in the middle of the playfield that are used with a jump ramp and others modes? Again it's not a standard item as with flippers, slings, standup targets, etc.

Does he realize he is arguing for raising posts as being cool/good? At the end of the day it's a frigging POST!

#81 1 year ago
Quoted from CoachBacca:

Does he realize he is arguing for raising posts as being cool/good? At the end of the day it's a frigging POST!

Dude, I simply listed the pop up posts under toys / mechs, that's it lol. I know they are not some major feature. Also, it's not a standup post, please understand that

#82 1 year ago

Walking up to a Toy Story on location... I have my fun for $1 and that's about it. Haven't felt compelled to specifically play it again since the initial $20 session.

Toy Story 4 pinball is a lot like Toy Story 4 the movie. It's fine, maybe even good. I'll watch it if it's on, but not put it on specifically.

I think you're kinda reaching when you have to start coil counting to show that a game has stuff in it or not. I'd consider those upposts and jump ramp to be a single mech. A real kickback? Meh... that's the sort of thing I cared about when I was new to the hobby. It looks neat visually, but when it fails? Rage stroke. It's nice but it's not a deal breaker to me.

I do think the game shoots very well and enjoy the RGB lightshows. I can see why a certain skill level may not be interested in owning the game. I do think the content is appropriate to the vast majority of families and home collectors though.

I respect their choice to make the game a bit easier in software settings out of the box (which a skilled player can increase as they're more likely to understand how to change settings like that).

I don't know if it's better to remove the super-duper-wizard carrot on a stick that keeps some people interested in their game long term, but I absolutely agree that a lot of super-duper-wizard modes aren't worth the amount of work/time/effort to legitimately achieve them because they don't put a lot of effort into the mode less than 1% will see. So focusing on making a really well polished wizard mode for people who want to see story progress is great. I don't know the code well enough to know if they made setting up your wizard mode interesting enough for highly skilled players.

#83 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

You can say the same thing about people in denial of actual criticisms of the game and have to immediately deem them as hate. I own a Halloween and can accept certain people don't like the layout or upper playfields, it's not hate just preference.

Fair point. I think Rick and Morty is an incredible game and many would disagree with me based on Pinside rankings and comments. Just preference.

#84 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

These threads always get weird.
Is a toy worth more money if it’s difficult?

sorry, i meant from a competition player perspective and should have specified. which leads me to believe that it'd get boring at home. F-14 Tomcat is 'too easy', for example, since there's really only two things to do.

#85 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Dude, I simply listed the pop up posts under toys / mechs, that's it. Get over it. I know they are not some major feature. Also, it's not a standup post, please understand that

See the original post that is the original argument. Like I said and others have tried to point out you are reaching when you have to include a raising and lowering post, regardless of any other functions they may have, and then make an argument about lack of things in Stern machines you look/sound ridiculous. Then to move on to a kickback like that is an amazing feature of the game? You are stretching to make this game sound amazing and it's not working. If you can't see that I am sorry. I am glad you like the game but it isn't packed.

#86 1 year ago

Today's thread is brought to you by Jersey Jack pinball.

#87 1 year ago
Quoted from CoachBacca:

See the original post that is the original argument. Like I said and others have tried to point out you are reaching when you have to include a raising and lowering post, regardless of any other functions they may have, and then make an argument about lack of things in Stern machines you look/sound ridiculous. Then to move on to a kickback like that is an amazing feature of the game? You are stretching to make this game sound amazing and it's not working. If you can't see that I am sorry. I am glad you like the game but it isn't packed.

I never said pop up posts or a kickback are amazing features, they were just on a list with other features on the game. All I was trying to do was say that as a whole the game actually has a decent amount going on toy and mech wise. Is Toy Story 4 some ultra loaded game? No, I know that but at the same time it isn't anywhere close to the bare game that some people on here make it out to be. That's it.

#88 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I never said pop up posts or a kickback are amazing features, they were just on a list with other features on the game. That's it, time to move on.

Yes I’d want to move on as well if I just listed pop bumpers and “drop target” to show off how “loaded” a game is.

#89 1 year ago
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

When you throw the price into it, it becomes an entirely different argument.

pretty much every game right now

16
#90 1 year ago

I'm just happy Panzer finally likes a JJP game; PHEW!

10
#91 1 year ago

I think the funny thing about these types of threads (not just JJP, but really any MFG) is that some people get so upset that somone else likes a game they don't and understands they will probably sell it for less down the road and doesnt care. Argue your points till the cows come home.. it's a barren playfield.. its TS4 not TS1-3.. it's too easy.. it's a kiddie theme.. you paid way too much and will lose money on it..

I also see the flip side, those that feel the need to go after anyone who doesnt like the same thing as they do are just as annoying.

Sorry but those who dont like it, arnt going to buy it, somone that can afford to drop 12-15k cash on a toy probably understands depreciation and the risk of loss (and is probably OK with it). If demand does continue to flatten out, JJP will make as many more as they are comphy and then move on to the next title and life will go on.

Enjoy re-hashing the same argument over and over and over and over and over again. I am going to play some pinball.

#92 1 year ago

Nice, you finally made it to the Acceptance stage. Congrats PanzerFreak.

#93 1 year ago

Panzer was doing just fine before he started to go coil counting.

Why can't he just say he likes the game, and say why? Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and if you think Toy Story is super fun to play, hey, good for you, enjoy it. That's what pinball is supposed to be all about.

But going all in on that list just made it all look kind of sad. I know it's his instinct to endlessly harp on "toys" and "features;" 10 years of nonstop JJP toadery will do that, and it's all he's ever brought to any game discussion. But it's a losing fight on this one. You aren't winning any "comparison" arguments these days by touting all of the toys, mechs, etc. that you are finding on the last few JJP releases.

You have to change your strategy depending on your battle, any great general will tell you that!

-1
#94 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Panzer was doing just fine before he started to go coil counting.
Why can't he just say he likes the game, and say why? Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and if you think Toy Story is super fun to play, hey, good for you, enjoy it. That's what pinball is supposed to be all about.
But going all in on that list just made it all look kind of sad. I know it's his instinct to endlessly harp on "toys" and "features;" 10 years of nonstop JJP toadery will do that, and it's all he's ever brought to any game discussion. But it's a losing fight on this one. You aren't winning any "comparison" arguments these days by touting all of the toys, mechs, etc. that you are finding on the last few JJP releases.
You have to change your strategy depending on your battle, any great general will tell you that!

You are lying through your teeth about everything you wrote. Better read your own reply again. If you and others are allowed to go on and on about why you hate the game then you need to also be cool with others saying why they enjoy it.

Crazy, I made a thread saying what I liked about the game as I too was very down on the game at first, until I actually played and now own one. I wasn't going into a coil counting debate so just stop, I never mentioned anything about coil counts. I simply listed toys / mechs and how most of them are under the playfield when not in use which does make the game appear a bit empty compared to when they are used. That's it Crazy, why do you have to attack and insult me over that?

Your attacks on me and other Pinsiders are not just limited to this thread. I remember when you pulled this same crap when I was simply mentioning how part of the reason I enjoy the Hobbit so much is because my Uncle and I, who I mentioned has since passed way, saw all the movies together. You went low then just as you are doing now. Again LOW and now you are trying to spread more lies.

I don't care about winning any arguments as I know yourself and a few others on here will never like JJP games and clearly hate the company. It's the same old crap from you and those few others for years. This thread was made to provide some thoughts about enjoying a pinball machine and of course you had to come in here and be rude.

#95 1 year ago

Give me a fucking break with this stuff Panzer. I'm not "attacking" or "insulting" you personally, nor am I doing anything particularly rude. You've been calling me a "stern fanboy" and worse for years so stop pretending your shit don't stink. You are calling me a "liar" because I think it's silly to boast about pop bumpers?! How's that for a "personal attack?"

You are making a silly argument and I'm calling you out on it. I'm not the one who decided to hinge my entire existence and persona on JJP's high coil counts.

#96 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Give me a fucking break with this stuff Panzer. I'm not "attacking" you personally, nor am I doing anything particularly rude. You've been calling me a "stern fanboy" and worse for years so stop pretending your shit don't stink.
Stop being a snowflake. You are making a silly argument and I'm calling you out on it. I'm not the one who decided to hinge my entire existence on JJP's high coil counts.

Yes you are attacking me personally. You are not calling me out on anything Crazy as I never once mentioned a thing about coil counts. I listed features of the game for the purpose of realizing that most of the toys and mechs in Toy Story are under the playfield. That's it! Why do you have to keep going on about this?

Also, I've bought multiple NIB Stern's over the years so your argument again holds no merit. Stern makes fun pinball machines and I'll continue to buying them.

Finally, not did I once say why Toy Story 4 is worth $12k - $15k. As I mentioned multiple times the days of value comparing are long gone as these NIB from both Stern and JJP have reached insanity levels.

#97 1 year ago

Man, dragging your dead uncle into this, once again, is FUCKING LOW.

If I'm ever that desperate to "win" a pinside argument, somebody shoot me.

#99 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Man, dragging your dead uncle into this, once again, is FUCKING LOW.
If I'm ever that desperate to "win" a pinside argument, somebody shoot me.

No, what is low is you not allowing someone to simply praise a pinball machine after they mentioned how my uncle and I saw and enjoyed the movies together. You couldn't help yourself then and had to be condescending and rude just as you are now. That's low.

#100 1 year ago

I just read the original post, is this the owners thread or a price pump thread?

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