(Topic ID: 325695)

I was wrong about Toy Story 4 - what a great pin - initial thoughts

By PanzerFreak

18 days ago


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  • 399 posts
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  • Latest reply 43 minutes ago by zaphX
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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There are 399 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
#1 18 days ago

Mods please delete and or lock this post. I tried having a discussion about what I liked about a game but then as in the past with JJP related threads was ridiculed, and even personally attacked multiple times. Theres a reason why WOZ was the first game to have a club thread created for it and that’s been on full display here.

#2 18 days ago

I have to admit I am really enjoying mine, I got it on trade as well + cash for a Stern machine I had listed. It is well made and the light show is impressive. I figured I could always sell it so thought I'd play it for awhile, but it is a pretty fun game so it will stay around for awhile.

I was going to order a CE but the reviews were so terrible I changed my mind. Odd how it got so much hate, guess I'll have to play them first in the future because I really don't know why this title garners so much hate, other than its high price tag (which I think we can thank the flippers for that).

#3 18 days ago

I figured these posts would start soon enough... I can tell you everyone that has bought one is loving it and I get comments like this alot from those who weren't maybe expecting a great game for whatever reason (podcast rants, pricing complaints). Ya, we sell them so we're biased but I can't stress how much we've seen the same thing on other games over and over - notably POTC with the stupid spinning disc debacle that amounted to jack squat in terms of the game being amazing. It actually led to the game run being prematurely cut short which is why you can't get one for less than $ 20,000 which is sad. Regardless I think TS is a great quintessential Lawlor game, and a typical great over the top JJP package which speaks for itself. Is the price high ya - that i'll give you - but seems like everything is anymore too unfortunately. Time will tell but I've seen this before on games that get beat up up front then end up being highly sought after soon enough... I get multiple emails every single week with people looking for WOZ, Hobbit, POTC, WW, and we have none to sell. Anyway - glad you're loving yours ! We have TS LEs in stock and I think 1 or 2 TS CE preorder spots if anyone is interested ! : )
Joe / [email protected]
PinballSTAR Amusements

#4 18 days ago

I gotta admit I enjoyed it a lot when playing it at the show here in CO a few weeks ago... Enough to own one? Probably not, but that speaks more to the machine cost and competition with other titles than the game itself. FWIW...

#5 18 days ago

That's the great thing about pinball. Two different people can have completely different views on any game. As long as you enjoy it and feel you have received value equivalent to what you paid, all is well in the world. I have played it many times but never in a home environment. So far, it has not pulled me in. Having it at home may change that but I don't see that one coming home just due to the price. I'm sure I'll play more on location. My opinion on games has changed many times after a lot of plays. Enjoy your new game!

#6 18 days ago

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong.

#7 18 days ago

Still waiting for one to be put on location near me to give it a flip. You would think with Flipside, Pinball Jones, Lyons arcade, Tilt, Stella's and a few others near me there would be one on location but for some reason no dice according to the pinballmap.com. With such a hit on their hands you would think it would kill on location right?

12
#8 18 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Toys / Mechs

Pop up jump ramp (not evening mentioning the entire landing area that is very well done with RGB lighting)
2 pop up Benson posts
Spinning disk
Pop up character mech
Physical kickback (not virtual...)
Drop target
Physical ball lock
10" LCD

12063974 (resized).jpg
#9 18 days ago

Nice to hear you like it. Pat Lawlor does not make many bad layouts and had fun playing it.
For me, TS4 simply misses the mark with its value proposition relative to prior JJPs and other pins at this new price point.

#10 18 days ago

"I was wrong about Toy Story 4 (what a great pin). Initial thoughts."

aka

"Let's get a thread going to start selling these damn things."

27
#11 18 days ago

As far as pinball is concerned the game itself is okay. When you throw the price into it, it becomes an entirely different argument.

Personally I don't really feel the story in this game while playing, I just see and hear a lot of dumb carnival stuff and Tom Hanks' brother

26
#12 18 days ago

I think the game is great, except for the price. It’s easily $2,000 more than it should be.

#13 18 days ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

"I was wrong about Toy Story 4 (what a great pin). Initial thoughts."
aka
"Let's get a thread going to start selling these damn things."

I guess I don't conflate the two from someone like the OP.

From a distro, or a "unbiased" review podcast who's actually a distro, then absolutely yeah I can see your point.

-5
#14 18 days ago

Hitting that jump ramp seems like such a non-event, and it's supposed to be the big thing. But at least you can get to the wizard mode during a fifteen minute cigarette break.

#15 18 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong.

I ate a lot of pizzas and ice cream during the pandemic so that works.

#16 18 days ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

Hitting that jump ramp seems like such a non-event, and it's supposed to be the big thing. But at least you can get to the wizard mode during a fifteen minute cigarette break.

i knew you would post this!! man you are the ultimate JJP troll!! did jack bang your wife or something???? even at 3k this would still be to deep for your pockets.

#17 18 days ago

I put a few games on Toy Story two weeks ago at Game Terminal Nashville. I enjoyed it a lot! I didn't understand the "ramp" until I finally hit it and the ball when up and into the circus area. That was cool.

I don't understand the hate out there. Other than the price.

#18 18 days ago

Game is good. Everyone gravitates to it in my game room. I'm glad I have it. Yes it was way too much money. Everyone agrees on that point.

#19 18 days ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

Hitting that jump ramp seems like such a non-event, and it's supposed to be the big thing. But at least you can get to the wizard mode during a fifteen minute cigarette break.

Of course it's a non event in that video, you can't even hear the game lol! I don't care how cool a toy is it's going to see lame when you can't even hear the audio from a poor audio recording at a bar with people screaming. My goodness.

Now check out the video below, where for one you can actually hear the audio, when Joe Katz hit's the Duke Kaboom shot a few times. Huge difference, very eventful. The video also shows JJP's attention to detail where the Duke Kaboom animation and audio changes each time the ramp is hit multiple times in a row.

#20 18 days ago

It’s an approachable, fun pin. It got hate from three angles. The price (understandable), JJP haters who hate anything JJP, and insecure macho men who felt threatened by another kid/family theme entering their manly hobby.

#21 18 days ago

It also got hate for being TS4 with unbeloved Forky and Gabby, instead of the whole franchise. That mattered too for the online hate mob and not so much when you're playing the game in person.

16
#22 18 days ago
Quoted from jackd104:

It’s an approachable, fun pin. It got hate from three angles. The price (understandable), JJP haters who hate anything JJP, and insecure macho men who felt threatened by another kid/family theme entering their manly hobby.

First angle I agree with, but the other two are: 1) lack of mechs / overly big tablet, and 2) Toy Story 4 and not the first three movies (or franchise as a whole).

The whole “insecure macho men” thing is 100% not true because virtually all of us were ready to jump on a Toy Story pin UNTIL it was revealed.

#23 18 days ago

I’m sure this will wind up like DI and WWCF. If you can get past the theme, the game itself is well done. I still want to play one before judging it.

#24 18 days ago

It’s a total blast to play. Although the resale value is down so was the Hobbit when I bought that new.

Anyway I plan on keeping the game so far 450 enjoyable plays. I have the PL JJP trifecta and love and play them all. Cheers

#25 17 days ago

Really bad timing for JJP with 12k and 15k price points with Stern premiums at 9k. You can list mechs all day but TS4 had to be perfectly executed to be widely accepted at 3k over comparable pins and with no real link to the heart and soul of the TS franchise (TS1). The new Mando topper, despite being sold out (heard that before) is getting praise and hate. The frustration is the $2k price point and an unimpressive build. I think TS4 will win over some hearts, but not as many people will be eager to own one until the market corrects to the perceived value. At that time, it will get some more love.

#26 17 days ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

I think the game is great, except for the price. It’s easily $2,000 more than it should be.

Yep. Enjoyed playing it at Pintastic, and given how there were always people waiting for their turn in the "Extra Ball Lounge" even at 4am and the positive chatter around it, so did lots of people. Instantly approachable game that's fun to shoot, and I don't know a thing about Toy Story. But they shouldn't have gone for the 20% price bump. Bad timing.

#27 17 days ago

Couldn’t agree with the OP more! My wife and I were able to pick up a TS4 CE at a discounted price. Apparently though, we suck playing it! In approximately 100 games, we have not hit wizard mode…seriously?

#28 17 days ago

Pat Lawlor does not miss.

There isn't a single one of his games that doesn't have something that makes me go "oh wow that was fun".

This one is no different.

-11
#29 17 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

When Toy Story 4 was officially revealed there was a lot of disappointment on Pinside. The game initially didn't appear as loaded both feature, mech and code wise compared to past JJP pins. There was also the odd choice (well it was by choice or forced by Disney) to tie the theme only to Toy Story 4. Also, there was a big backlash against the huge price increase rightfully so. I agree with the backlash against the price as we've reached insanity levels in pricing but JJP isn't the only one charging all time record high prices (looking at you Stern). Would I personally pay $12.5k - $15k for a Toy Story 4? Probably not, everyone's pinball budget is different, and I personally would never spend $12.5k - $15k on any pin. I had a chance to trade a Ghostbusters premium for a NIB Toy Story 4 CE so that's how I was able to get the game.
Now here's what I'll say about actually owning a Toy Story 4 (a CE) and playing it. The game is just as fun as past JJP pins and in many ways more enjoyable. Gasp! Feature and mech wise I would actually put Toy Story 4 up against a majority of modern pins and say it has a similar or greater count of mechs and toys. Double gasp! How?
Below is a list of the toys and mechs in Toy Story. Now if you compare that amount of items to modern pins that's actually a fairly loaded game. Then why does it seem like Toy Story doesn't have a ton in it? It's because when the game is not in use you don't actually see most of the mechs being used. That's it pure and simple. The jump ramp, Benson posts, character mech, and spinning disk are all below or leveled with the playfield. When in use though those are actually very interactive items, especially the jump ramp and pop up posts. Other games have their toys and mechs more exposed but that's not really the case with Toy Story. Take Bond premium / LE for example, there's more going on mech and feature wise in Toy Story then that game. With all of that being said I still wish the 10" LCD was an actual physical toy as there's already a 27" screen on the backglass. Also, those cheap little character figures are also fairly cheesy when you realize JJP typically puts at least one custom mold in their games.
Toys / Mechs
Pop up jump ramp (not evening mentioning the entire landing area that is very well done with RGB lighting)
2 pop up Benson posts
Spinning disk
Pop up character mech
Physical kickback (not virtual...)
Drop target
Physical ball lock
10" LCD
Other features
4 pop bumpers
JJP RGB hot rails
The other area of concern has been code. Now this is an area I went back and forth on a lot. I usually want that crazy impossible wizard mode in a pin even though I never get to it, that always equals value in my mind. Here's the thing though, as Pat Lawlor said most final wizard modes just mindlessly dump all the balls onto the playfield and that's it. That's not the case with Toy Story's wizard mode, there's multiple stages within it, unique detailed animations, unique light shows, and there's even two separate paths for it. In other words far more effort and thought went into Toy Stories wizard mode then what see in most pins. Has anyone actually seen Somewhere over the Rainbow in WOZ? Minor spoiler but the mode itself is rather bland just like with most wizard modes. Actually reaching the wizard mode in TS4 isn't a simple task but it is more feasible compared to most pins. I don't think that's bad thing when there's plenty of other stuff going on in the game (see below).
Besides what I mentioned about the wizard mode the game itself has I think 5 multiball modes, 11 carnival modes that are objective based, and a mini wizard mode. There's also plenty of depth within some of those modes such as completing carnival modes to earn character bonuses which then impact the entire game.
Anyway just wanted to mention some things about Toy Story 4 and how much fun I've been having with the game. The CE is easily the most impressive looking pin I've ever owned (damn that topper is cool and heavy). It's easy to bash a game when you never actually play it, or get caught up in bashing it with others. Toy Story like all pins needs to be actually seen in person and played to properly give it a fair shot.
[quoted image]

The primary colors do pop, but looking at that almost completely empty play field really says it all. Glad you’re happy with your purchase. A thread like this might help your resale value a little. Know you don’t like keeping shallow games for too long. Plus you’re a mech man and hate mechless games, so how long will TS4 stay for you?

-5
#30 17 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

The primary colors do pop, but looking at that almost completely empty play field really says it all. Glad you’re happy with your purchase. A thread like this might help your resale value a little. Know you don’t like keeping shallow games for too long. Plus you’re a mech man and hate mechless games, so how long will TS4 stay for you?

Not sure what you mean by empty playfield. Did you see the points below I mentioned from the original post? Many of these items you can't see as they are under or flat on the playfield and then activate while in use. Also I don't find the game shallow at all, mentioned a few things about depth in the original post.

Toys / Mechs

Pop up jump ramp (not evening mentioning the entire landing area that is very well done with RGB lighting)
2 pop up Benson posts
Spinning disk
Pop up character mech
Physical kickback (not virtual...)
Drop target
Physical ball lock
10" LCD

Other features

4 pop bumpers
JJP RGB hot rails

#31 17 days ago

Im excited to get my CE this Wednesday. Hate to say it .. but with all the hate it was getting it probably forced Pat Lawlor into Retirment. He was like Im not dealing with these self-proclaimed pinball wizards anymore.

#32 17 days ago

I really love to see threads like this; the more good games out there the better!

#33 17 days ago

reply fail

#34 17 days ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Hate to say it .. but with all the hate

hate.gif
27
#35 17 days ago

A positive thread about Toy Story pops up so distributors can have some hope around this cash grab of a game. Then you realize it’s the typical new TS owner experience - game is great! Can’t believe how much fun it is! Well worth the trade for a game people actually want for a game no one wants.

Then a few weeks later it gets dumped on to the market, with the other 20 that are sitting there.

Pretty bold though to try and claim this game is packed with toys (including the LCD??) and that people just don’t see them. That’s truly the biggest joke of this thread.

If you buy TS right now, prepare to lose money. If you buy one new from a distributor, be prepared to lose a lot of money.

#36 17 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I’m so happy that a positive thread about Toy Story pops up so distributors can have some hope around this cash grab of a game. Then you realize it’s the typical new TS owner experience - game is great! Can’t believe how much fun it is! Then a few weeks later it gets dumped onto the market, with the other 20 that are sitting there.
Pretty bold though to try a claim this game is packed with toys (including the LCD??) and that people just don’t see them. That’s truly the biggest joke of this thread.
If you buy TS right now, prepare to lose money. If you buy one new from a distributor, be prepared to lose a lot of money.

If you buy one new and plan to sell it in a month, agree, plan to loose money. but plan for that with most major purchases like this. With prices from Stern and JJP where they are, gone are the days of buying a NIB, trying it out and then flipping it. FWIW, I've had my TS4LE for several months and I have no regrets. It's a blast to play, rules are plenty deep for me and my kids like TS4 better than TS1-3 any way, haha.

#37 17 days ago
Quoted from arcadenerd925:

If you buy one new and plan to sell it in a month, agree, plan to loose money. but plan for that with most major purchases like this. With prices from Stern and JJP where they are, gone are the days of buying a NIB, trying it out and then flipping it. FWIW, I've had my TS4LE for several months and I have no regrets. It's a blast to play, rules are plenty deep for me and my kids like TS4 better than TS1-3 any way, haha.

So I'm not talking about selling in a month. In fact, you actually might save some of the loss if you did sell next month. The bottom on this game is low and it will continue to drop even more so in a year. The loss will continue to increase. The market has clearly spoken on this game and although new owners might try to convince themselves otherwise (or others that are happy with the game and will just keep it as is) - neither changes the incredible tanking this game is going through.

Unless JJP pulls the plug on this mess, it's a ticking timebomb. Anyone jumping in at this point though - that's on them. All of the shills have been exposed at this point (trying to sell what they could - get as many suckers as possible) but the community knows what's going on.

#38 17 days ago

I know I didn’t care for it at first when I saw it either! I did get to play it at HAG over the weekend and have to say, I changed my mind! It’s a great table! It really is one that looks bad until you play it! Is it the best table out there? No, of course not! Would I have any problem having it in my small collection? Not at all! Now I will agree on one thing, that I think the price is too high! Are they going to make a “Pro” equivalent eventually? If so I could see getting it! I just think for the let’s say 14, I would rather have a Godzilla and something else than just this! If it was 7, I could see picking it up.

#39 17 days ago

So delt I’m thinking your complaint is since the NIB price is so high it’s not a pin you can flip like others. You seem to be obsessed with people that buy it. I say what business is yours on how we spend our money.

I wouldn’t be surprised down the road you buy it because the family wants it.

Cheers

#40 17 days ago

I really enjoyed toy story. My kids like it too. I’ll be a buyer when the price is $7500-8500

#41 17 days ago

HATE HATE HATE!!!

buck.gif
#42 17 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

So I'm not talking about selling in a month. In fact, you actually might save some of the loss if you did sell next month. The bottom on this game is low and it will continue to drop even more so in a year. The loss will continue to increase. The market has clearly spoken on this game and although new owners might try to convince themselves otherwise (or others that are happy with the game and will just keep it as is) - neither changes the incredible tanking this game is going through.
Unless JJP pulls the plug on this mess, it's a ticking timebomb. Anyone jumping in at this point though - that's on them. All of the shills have been exposed at this point (trying to sell what they could - get as many suckers as possible) but the community knows what's going on.

I think you and I can both agree prices are nuts right now, but I think thats probably about it, lol, which is fine. I buy games I think are fun, I don't buy them because I think they'll increase in value later. I'm fully aware if I sell my TS4 in 5 years I will more than likely loose a chunk of change on it, but I don't see it as a loss, to me, that is the cost of ownership, I enjoy my games and will take what the market dictates when the time comes to sell.

You're right, there are clearly shills for all MFG's that have some kind of skin in the game, but that is to be expected and is why I usually ignore those oppinions for the most part.

#43 17 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

So I'm not talking about selling in a month. In fact, you actually might save some of the loss if you did sell next month. The bottom on this game is low and it will continue to drop even more so in a year. The loss will continue to increase. The market has clearly spoken on this game and although new owners might try to convince themselves otherwise (or others that are happy with the game and will just keep it as is) - neither changes the incredible tanking this game is going through.
Unless JJP pulls the plug on this mess, it's a ticking timebomb. Anyone jumping in at this point though - that's on them. All of the shills have been exposed at this point (trying to sell what they could - get as many suckers as possible) but the community knows what's going on.

pepesilvia.jpeg

-1
#44 17 days ago

The TS4 haters who point to the high price relative to the “lack of depth” have no defense for their position when games with much less depth are continually selling for over $14k…so if these haters were to be believed, TS4 CE’s would drop more than $3k over the long run even though the scarcity would increase…haters aren’t too smart….

#45 17 days ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

The TS4 haters who point to the high price relative to the “lack of depth” have no defense for their position when games with much less depth are continually selling for over $14k…so if these haters were to be believed, TS4 CE’s would drop more than $3k over the long run even though the scarcity would increase…haters aren’t too smart….

willis.gif
14
#46 17 days ago

A lazy playfield design + a bizarre mishandling of the Toy Story license + a lack of toys on a pin called Toy Story + a screw-the-customer price tag...

Are any of those not true? If even one is true, it would be bad. But all four is a pinball train wreck.

#50 17 days ago

Prices have retracted a bit from their height on games overall, however flippers were pricing games where jjp has them at now so I’d rather them receive it.

Also Jjp CE’s and Stern LE’s have been selling in minutes, so it’s smart to take that into account on their part. I’ve got examples of Stern LE’s that are ten plus years old still worth 15k with thousands of plays on them.

I mean first be grateful to have another choice to buy from in jjp and be glad again to not see them fizzle away in 5-10 years because they sold themselves short.

Also I’m enjoying the game. My son thinks it sucks. Wife’s not a fan as well but guess what? It ain’t going anywhere anytime soon.

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