(Topic ID: 109332)

Project: 1958 Gottlieb Double Action

By wayout440

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 77 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

doubleDA.jpg
IMG_20150425_080104359.jpg
IMG_20141112_153327564.jpg
IMG_20150610_163537702.jpg
IMG_20150610_163528236.jpg
refin.jpg
image-1.jpg
pf.jpg
serial.jpg
IMG_20141205_041709177.jpg
retouch.jpg
IMG_20141115_100539700.jpg
IMG_6343.jpg
IMG_6341.jpg
fender.jpg
Sinbad26.JPG
There are 77 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
15
#1 9 years ago

This is a 1958 Gottlieb Double Action woodrail, that has certainly seen better days. Being a solid state guy, I have only worked on my United Encore Shuffle bowler - but this is something way beyond that. It needs some serious TLC, electrically, mechanically, and cosmetically. A winter project for sure. Many thanks to Jeff and RocketlandCoinOp for delivering it to my backyard en route to Chicago!

The playfield is decent, and should clean up nice. So far all I found out is the transformer seems to be working. I can't be certain that I can make her a beautiful player once again, but I will give it a go.

IMG_20141112_150233068_HDR.jpgIMG_20141112_150233068_HDR.jpg

#2 9 years ago

Was all the wood painted green?

#3 9 years ago
Quoted from Carl_694:

Was all the wood painted green?

This is as I received it. As you can see from the pic, the backbox frame is still wood. The rails and lockdown bar are painted green. The side rails have some damage, so I have yet to decide if I will be able to repair them and refinish them, or if I need to come up with replacements. It's a shame it was painted - but it is what it is. I should be able to refurbish the lockdown bar.

#4 9 years ago

Congrats on your first wood rail. Just stripping and refinishing the wood trim would be a huge improvement. Even if you left the missing chunk near the lock down bar. On these old timers it can pass for character if you can live with that. The play field looks like it will clean up fine.

#5 9 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Congrats on your first wood rail. Just stripping and refinishing the wood trim would be a huge improvement. Even if you left the missing chunk near the lock down bar. On these old timers it can pass for character if you can live with that. The play field looks like it will clean up fine.

Thanks for the tips. Overwhelmed I don't know where to begin. What I know for certain is I will leave the cabinet painting for the warmer months. I really know I want to strip this playfield and clean it up, but not sure if that is the place to start. She doesn't work yet, so I was contemplating maybe getting her working first. Anyone have a "process" of steps they do to restore EM projects?

#6 9 years ago

That playfield looks like my Gottlieb Gladiator. Good luck with the restoration. these old pins are fun to play and worth the effort to save.
Let us know how it turns out.

Brian

spirit 7613.JPGspirit 7613.JPG Sinbad26.JPGSinbad26.JPG
#7 9 years ago

For this example I would start with the mechanical/functional first.

My best advice is to go through the game mechanicals in a methodical fashion and be patient as you go. By mechanicals I mean the relays and mechanisms. Your goal is simple:
1. Check setup and wipe on all of the switch contacts. Lightly file the points on each switch.
2. Inspect for wiring defects as you go - loose wires, broken or bent solder tabs, etc.
3. Inspect, clean, and lube where necessary all mechanisms - flippers, slingshots, steppers, score reels. You are looking for smooth and proper operation.

I approach the game in three sections:
1. Head
2. Playfield
3. Main relay board.
Pull each out onto the workbench and give each undivided attention to get through it. On a 70's 4 player EM I can get through all of the relays and mechanicals in about 5 hours with this method. For this game, appearing to have as much exposure as it has, along with the potential for the greases they used in this era that can gum up solid, you will probably need more time.

I would gauge gameplay before I went whole hog on the cosmetic restoration. You may find Double Action to be only an average player.

Good luck.

Mike O.

#8 9 years ago

Mike O. that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! I'm more interested in the journey than the gameplay. I have no idea how long I would keep it.

So another question: I know I have it plugged into an outlet, that if I pull in one of the main relays manually the lights come and the score motor spins continuously. I assume this is at the least, because I have to get all the mechs/relays/solenoids unstuck. As soon as I release it, everything is off. There is no GI. Also there is no power switch that I see on this game. So what is the normal action on these era of games?...do you just plug them in and the GI should come on, but only if everything is working? My old shuffle alley lights up when I turn on a switch, so this seems odd to me.

#9 9 years ago

On Gottliebs, prior to the addition of a power on/off switch, they 'powered up' by inserting a coin. Then there's a 'knock-off' switch mounted on the bottom cabinet board (near the score motor) where slapping the bottom of the cabinet would knock off the power (needing to be 'coined up' again to turn it back on).

#10 9 years ago

Congrats,

Welcome to the wonderful world of EM's. Hit us up with more questions as you move through the process as we are here to help.

#11 9 years ago

Thanks, folks. I'm great with solid state, but with EMs it's like learning how to walk again.

Quoted from DirtFlipper:

On Gottliebs, prior to the addition of a power on/off switch, they 'powered up' by inserting a coin. Then there's a 'knock-off' switch mounted on the bottom cabinet board (near the score motor) where slapping the bottom of the cabinet would knock off the power (needing to be 'coined up' again to turn it back on).

That's some great info right there. Knock-off switch. "Knock it off!" Would have taken me a while to figure that one out.

#13 9 years ago

Thanks, dasvis. I forgot about that one.

Spent about an hour and a half in the backbox getting my hands dirty (literally, they were FILTHY) cleaning and freeing up some steppers. I have a feeling most of my problems are going to be down in the cabinet, which I should be able to get started on over the weekend.

Let the fun begin. Lots to do.

#14 9 years ago

pm sent

#15 9 years ago

i like it better green!

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from freddy:

i like it better green!

LOL. Maybe if the backbox frame was green to match.

nah. It needs to match my Fender:

fender.jpgfender.jpg
#17 9 years ago

Looking forward to more pics! Love the woodrails too!

#18 9 years ago

Great machine! I restored one of these in 2011 and it's still with me. I love playing it. Here's some info on the work I had to - hope it helps. http://www.petesgameroom.net/doubleaction/

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from peclark:

Great machine! I restored one of these in 2011 and it's still with me. I love playing it. Here's some info on the work I had to - hope it helps. http://www.petesgameroom.net/doubleaction/

Yes, I saw that in a Google search. You did a very nice job. It looks interesting to play. For me, this one is more about the journey through the project than anything else. I needed something really inexpensive to work on over the winter. I will focus on the innards and playfield over the winter, and when warmer weather arrives in the spring I should be able to get the paint and exterior finish work on the cabinet done outdoors.

I know most prefer single player but as the sign says "It's more fun to compete". I also like the artwork on it, too - which also not considered as desirable like other games of the period.

#20 9 years ago

Thanks! I'm with you - I often like restoring more than I like playing. This was a local craigslist find, for 100 bucks (that said - for the condition I realized it was in when I got home I might have spent too much). I vowed to myself I wouldn't spend too much money on this one just to see how I could do with a minimal investment.

The gobble hole on this machine is a maddening feature to me. It's very counterintuitive to my other pinballs. As far as I can tell, the quickest way to a high score is to try to get both the progressive lights up to 50, and then lose the ball in the gobble hole for 500 points. If you can do this 5 times, you're doing pretty good!

The main problem areas I had with this machine were dirty switch contacts, especially on the score motor. Many of the switch stacks needed to be tightened as the bakelite spacers had shrunk. This was also true of the relays in the back box - in that they were dirty and the arcing had oxidized the contacts quite a bit. Lots of switch cleaning and adjusting. The connectors between the back box, cabinet, and playfield needed lots of wire brushing as well. Common theme I guess, most of my issues were with corrosion and oxidation on switch contacts, relays, and connectors.

#21 9 years ago

Pete Clark,

That's one heck of a restoration you did on that Double Action.

I notice you list your location as Lenexa, KS. I'm actually typing from work in Lenexa and live in Overland Park. Looks like you are somewhat new to the area.

If you get a chance stop by Pizza West in Shawnee at K7 and Johnson drive for the 3rd Saturday monthly league. Lots of great games, players, and collectors. Tomorrow is this week's date. Hopefully we will see you there some time.

Pizza West is very family friendly with great food to boot.

Mike O.

#22 9 years ago

Here's the relays in the bottom of the machine. I had some labels missing as well, but I think I was able to identify them correctly. Hope this helps!

IMG_6341.jpgIMG_6341.jpgIMG_6343.jpgIMG_6343.jpg

#23 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

LOL. Maybe if the backbox frame was green to match.
nah. It needs to match my Fender:

fender.jpg 21 KB

that fender would look good with a little color! LOL!

#24 9 years ago

Hey Mike, thanks for the kind words!

Pizza West sounds great - I'll try to make it over there. My brother is in town visiting this weekend, but maybe I can make it next month. I'm better at fixing the games than I am at playing them, so hopefully you guys have a novice league or something like that!

#25 9 years ago

If your playing skills aren't up to your standards it's still a good place to meet several of the local pinball folks.

Erik, whose games are at PW, is a wizard at SS game repair and he is making great strides on EM repair. I play and fix games. Others have their own skill sets.

The rules are $5 entry, double elimination in winners bracket, usually double elimination in losers bracket, and winner of losers bracket plays winner of winners bracket. Top half of finishers at least get their $5 back.

Give it a shot. With your skill set would love to meet you. There would be lots to talk about.

#26 9 years ago

Sounds good, I'll put it on the calendar so I don't forget. Looking forward to meeting you.

#27 9 years ago

I was able to put some time into this over the weekend. I've got the score reels resetting at least, but only if I hold the start button in. Otherwise, I basically get only only a 1/3 turn of the score motor, then she's all off. Some other things must not be happening and I am starting to feel like I've been over the same old ground a few times cleaning and inspecting relays and switch contacts. Anyways, starting to learn my way around in this machine. Schematics are supposed to arrive today, and may help with the next "digging in" session. It would be great if I could get it to at least boot up. The Gottlieb reset sequences that I have found online seem to vary a bit and none appear to be exactly the right one for this game.

IMG_20141115_100539700.jpgIMG_20141115_100539700.jpg
#28 9 years ago
Quoted from peclark:

Here's the relays in the bottom of the machine. I had some labels missing as well, but I think I was able to identify them correctly. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the pics. I noticed in the pictures it looks like the 115V relay contacts appear to be permanently together. Is this what should be done to keep the game on or avoid this relay burning up? I cleaned and adjusted mine, although the paper was burned off it does seem to be working.

#29 9 years ago

First boot!!!!

#30 9 years ago

Success! Now, turn on the bells!

Looking good!

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from jodini:

Success! Now, turn on the bells!
Looking good!

Just ordered them from The Pinball Resource. The only parts that were raped from the game
Just gotta have 'em!

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Just ordered them from The Pinball Resource. The only parts that were raped from the game
Just gotta have 'em!

Too bad the 5" bells are NLA from Pinball resource.
Look here if you need a 5-incher.
http://timesavers.com/search.html?q=bells&go=Search

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Too bad the 5" bells are NLA from Pinball resource.
Look here if you need a 5-incher.
http://timesavers.com/search.html?q=bells&go=Search

The big one down in the cab? Yeah that one is in there. Thanks for the link!

#34 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Thanks for the pics. I noticed in the pictures it looks like the 115V relay contacts appear to be permanently together. Is this what should be done to keep the game on or avoid this relay burning up? I cleaned and adjusted mine, although the paper was burned off it does seem to be working.

Yep, that's exactly right.

#35 9 years ago

Great job! You are already getting through the hardest part. Not necessarily the most time consuming, but the most important. They gotta run right and these 50's games can be temperamental depending on the life they lived.

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

Great job! You are already getting through the hardest part. Not necessarily the most time consuming, but the most important. They gotta run right and these 50's games can be temperamental depending on the life they lived.

Certainly this one has seen a hard life. But now that it will reset and the power will stay on I should be able to get everything working eventually. I am going to switch gears and tear down the playfield since I am itching to get that cleaned up and working. If I can get that looking pretty, there will be even more motivation to do the rest.

#37 9 years ago

Thank you for restoring and being care taker of another great machine. Pinball will not die on our watch!

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from Peppers:

Thank you for restoring and being care taker of another great machine. Pinball will not die on our watch!

Probably the nicest thing anyone has said to me on Pinside. Thank you.

#39 9 years ago

I just love to see more unplayable machines getting restored and put back into circulation. If it was not for people with skills like yourself and countless other Pinsiders, we would soon end up with no playable older machines. That is a future to scary to dwell on. I do my best to cheer on the real hero's of pinball =)

#40 9 years ago

I like this saying Peppers which I think encapsulates your message "Let me be judged not on what I do but what I leave"

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from jodini:

Success! Now, turn on the bells!
Looking good!

Jingle my bells!

#42 9 years ago

One annoying thing is the ball release in the trough vibrates loudly. I'm not sure that it is the coil, or the mech it is operating that is making the racket, or both. In fact, I am not sure that it is supposed to be staying in during the course of a game, but I think it is. If someone could tell me about that. I have read that the coil stop can be the cause. Or the bracket. Either way, I need to figure out how to quiet that sucker down.

#43 9 years ago

Look to the alignment of the coil plunger to the stop. Both could be worn to the point that they don't contact square and you will get buzzing.

Replacement parts are available from Pinball Resource.

#44 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

On Gottliebs, prior to the addition of a power on/off switch, they 'powered up' by inserting a coin. Then there's a 'knock-off' switch mounted on the bottom cabinet board (near the score motor) where slapping the bottom of the cabinet would knock off the power (needing to be 'coined up' again to turn it back on).

Thks for the tip DF. I had no idea of this function on my Rocketship. I note the slap needs to be fairly defined under the switch to propel the rod which opens the switch. It seems an odd logic to 'switch a switch'!

#45 9 years ago

No lack of things to do here. Decided to put on a little music this morning and work on some more topside retouching.

retouch.jpgretouch.jpg
#46 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

No lack of things to do here. Decided to put on a little music this morning and work on some more topside retouching.

retouch.jpg 318 KB

I have found when you have pins-'there is never a lack of things to do'

#47 9 years ago

First playable game. Still a lot of tweaking and a ton of cosmetic work, but nice to be able to bat the ball around a bit.

#48 9 years ago

You are to be commended on your efforts. You earned that first game.

#49 9 years ago

I'm enjoying your posts, nice job on getting her going!
Don't neglect your Mav now

#50 9 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

You are to be commended on your efforts. You earned that first game.

Thanks. When I first got the game in the basement, I certainly had some doubts. It looked horribly trashed.

Quoted from the4horse:

I'm enjoying your posts, nice job on getting her going!
Don't neglect your Mav now

Thanks. Mav is good - It's Pinbot now that may be sick. I had some family over playing over the holiday and the displays when haywire at some point. I haven't had the time to check that out yet.

Some quick questions:

- How is the flipper alignment supposed to be on the games of this era? Inline with the sling faces or should the tips be slightly up for instance?
- My left and right advance pop bumper caps were burned through. I filled these with epoxy, and painted white they just look ok, illuminated you can see a big dark spot in the center. To get them right I think my only option is to replace them. I don't think I'll be able to locate exact replacements. Any suggestions or alternatives?

IMG_20141205_041709177.jpgIMG_20141205_041709177.jpg
There are 77 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-wanted-a-project-and-i-got-one and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.