Quoted from smognote:the guy played sports for a living. when a guy finds a cure for cancer and dies tragically, I will be sympathetic. SORRY
So you are only sympathetic of a person’s death depending on what they did for a living? Get the hell out of here.
Flying in the fog was probably a bad idea, however there are other things that can go wrong. Like my Uncle that was a test pilot after Korea. He was flying a small plane that had been modified to be longer and hold more people. Witnesses said they just saw the wings come off.
The original poster tscottn has it 100% correct. Yes, NTSB investigation and process will ensue but it's pretty clear what happened here. I'm a 737 Captain and have been flying since 1990 with over 20,000 hours... the first thing that went through my mind when hearing of the news was the OP's exact summation. Completing the mission and human factors are very real threats we train to recognize, recover, and improve upon as pilots. Unfortunately, those threats are magnified in the corporate/VIP world.
Total “ pilot in command” time may have been a factor, especially when flying IFR. If you don’t trust your instruments, vertigo can take over and that’s not good. Having said that, nothing is more important than safety and prudence when adverse weather is in the mix regardless of experience. Sometimes as a pilot, you just don’t fly.
Quoted from wrb1977:So you are only sympathetic of a person’s death depending on what they did for a living? Get the hell out of here.
Sympathetic enough to reflect for a moment but not enough to dedicate all of this media attention to. It's only basketball.
They're out there interviewing relatives of the others that died just to keep the story hot.
Quoted from slicknick13:They're out there interviewing relatives of the others that died just to keep the story hot.
"if it bleeds, it leads" - TV journalism
Quoted from Atari_Daze:"if it bleeds, it leads" - TV journalism
Don Henley's song "Dirty Laundry" comes to mind.
Quoted from rai:Has this been discussed.
Are you talking about it circling or the fact it had no TAWS ?
For the circling pretty sure that was when the aircraft was told to just hold due to traffic. I'm no pilot but pretty sure a very common situation.
Quoted from Fizz:Question for the OP, or any other pilots on this thread. Why do helicopters seem to often (or maybe always?) fly with just one pilot?
I'm not a pilot, but in my industry, EVERYTHING has redundancy to avoid a single point of failure taking the system down.
It would seem to me that in a helicopter, the single most important element requiring redundancy would be the pilot.
Everyone seems to be assuming that pilot error caused this crash. Maybe that's true. But what if the pilot suddenly had a stroke/heart attack/whatever? Or even if it was pilot error, if there was a second pilot, maybe that pilot would have said, hey man it's too foggy today.
I know the same argument could be made for cars, buses, etc. But for air travel it just seems weird that the pilot is non redundant in helicopters.
I flew helicopters for 20 years in the military as a test pilot. Flown all over the world and in every kind of weather/environment. Helicopters are expensive to operate. Why one pilot, cost! The helicopter is expensive. The pilot, maintenance and insurance, expensive. It’s just not a cheap form of transportation. Operators do everything they can to reduce cost. I think the average cost of a medivac flight is around $11K.
Having a second pilot/crew member does reduce risks and accidents. The two pilots/crew members are more likely to discuss options and make less risky decisions. In the military you will have an accident investigation board, just like the NTSB/FAA go through all of the records and try to figure out all of the contributing factors to an accident like this. I have been on a few boards. It’s not fun investigating your friends and having to say they made a mistake. You will always find multiple contributing factors to an accident. Lack of training. Over confidence. Taking unnecessary risks. Consistently breaking rules/regulations, etc.
I have been scared more times than I can remember. Flying in bad weather. Flying in bad weather at night using night vision goggles or unaided. Bullets being shot at you. When you are under pressure to complete the mission, you are very vulnerable to making deadly mistakes. Especially when you are single pilot and have no one to question your decisions.
I have lost a lot of friends to helicopter accidents both in combat and during training. When a helicopter crashes, it is amazing the forces that are at play. When you see a titanium blade spar snap like a toothpick, you know the forces during the accident were substantial. And if it catches fire, well, jet fuel is very flammable for a reason!
Someone once said that a helicopter is made up of a thousand parts all trying to go in a thousand different directions at the same time. And helicopters do not naturally like to fly. You have to make it go where you want it too. When something goes wrong, you have to respond immediately to the emergency or end up in a worse situation than the first.
For me, I can remember my first flight by myself. Flying a fully manual TH-55 was more fun than anything I have ever done before. Using both hands and both feet to keep the aircraft under control. It only got better after that flight. Modern helicopters are a blast to fly.
Medivac pilots/crew take a lot of risks to help someone else. They get very little credit for the dangers they face daily. Power lines everywhere, antennas, lousy landing sites, etc. When the weather is bad and someone crashes their car, the pilots go out in that same bad weather to help save someone else. Many never come home.
To all those medivac pilots out there, keep your head on a swivel and keep up the good work. Fly safely so you can live to fly another day!
104_0450 (resized).JPGFrom what I've discerned from watching the NTSB briefing and other materials the flight was completely normal up until the final bit. At the end the pilot gained altitude to try to rise above the fog and then suddenly the heli entered a leftward dive at high velocity (2000 ft per minute) and into the hillside.
So the question is why did the dive occur? Some have stated that this can happen due to pilot confusion in the fog, but with a pilot this experienced, including being an instructor for IFR and VFR flight, and with this much knowledge of the area, that seems less likely to me. I think there is still a possibility that a mechanical malfunction or pilot health issue could be at fault here.
Maybe someone "in the know" can comment on the why/how the pilot could enter a rapid dive in this circumstance?
Quoted from LukyDuck:I flew helicopters for 20 years in the military as a test pilot.
Thank you for your military service and for your thorough post. It is great to be able to get this kind of information from someone with your experience.
I do wonder if the people making the decisions to operate flights with only one pilot due to cost, have fully accounted for the cost of the extra risk that this choice entails.
Of course, the most important part is the risk to life.
But just this one single crash is going to cost the industry a lot of money. The lawsuit settlements of the victims alone will probably go into the hundreds of millions.
The NTSB investigation and cleanup efforts will cost big money.
And the most expensive part for the industry is the possibly unmeasurable, but very real, fact that the entire nation (and world) are now laser focused on the dangers of flying in helicopters.
All of this money could pay for a lot of Co pilots. And, of course, that would not stop every crash from happening, but if it can increase safety overall, it will reduce the number of crashes.
Our uncle Donny was a commercial pilot with air Canada and retired in the 90s. He was scared shitless of helicopters for some reason. I asked him why and he said because when a chopper goes down it goes straight down and if a plane is going down he can most likely try and find a field, road, etc for a emergency landing. I found it odd but kind of makes sense. Either way a horrible way to go out.
RIP to all the families involved.
Quoted from Fytr:From what I've discerned from watching the NTSB briefing and other materials the flight was completely normal up until the final bit. At the end the pilot gained altitude to try to rise above the fog and then suddenly the heli entered a leftward dive at high velocity (2000 ft per minute) and into the hillside.
So the question is why did the dive occur? Some have stated that this can happen due to pilot confusion in the fog, but with a pilot this experienced, including being an instructor for IFR and VFR flight, and with this much knowledge of the area, that seems less likely to me. I think there is still a possibility that a mechanical malfunction or pilot health issue could be at fault here.
Maybe someone "in the know" can comment on the why/how the pilot could enter a rapid dive in this circumstance?
You have asked the exact same thing I have been wondering about. There is a lot of information and facts about this situation that have come out, including from reputable sources like NTSB. It seems to be presented as factual that it was going downward at 2000 ft/min. But then it stops there. As far as I can figure out, that is not a normal descent rate. So why was it doing that? No one is saying. I presume this will be figured out at some point.
Quoted from Fytr:From what I've discerned from watching the NTSB briefing and other materials the flight was completely normal up until the final bit. At the end the pilot gained altitude to try to rise above the fog and then suddenly the heli entered a leftward dive at high velocity (2000 ft per minute) and into the hillside.
So the question is why did the dive occur? Some have stated that this can happen due to pilot confusion in the fog, but with a pilot this experienced, including being an instructor for IFR and VFR flight, and with this much knowledge of the area, that seems less likely to me. I think there is still a possibility that a mechanical malfunction or pilot health issue could be at fault here.
Maybe someone "in the know" can comment on the why/how the pilot could enter a rapid dive in this circumstance?
As Thermionic previously stated, the most likely cause is that he was flying in the fog/clouds and developed vertigo. It is very easy to lose your sense of right side up vs down when you lose your visual reference and your internal senses are telling you something else. This is something that every pilot can encounter when flying in the clouds, fog or at night.
Below is a good explanation:
"Vertigo is a false sense of movement, causing confusion, disorientation—and, eventually, incapacitation. According to the FAA, vertigo and spatial disorientation (SD) contribute to 15 percent of accidents, typically at night or in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). Most are fatal, and experienced pilots are not immune. The U.S. Air Force investigated 633 crashes between 1980 and 1989 and referenced SD in 13 percent. Non-instrument-rated pilots have a life expectancy of less than three minutes in IMC, probably because of SD.
Positional sense in space occurs from combining visual and gravitational input, a properly functioning inner ear, and proprioception—brain feedback from nerve receptors. Ever induced a “dead arm” from lying on it? Other than looking, you have no idea where it is. That is failure of proprioception. Your inner ear plays a big role in vertigo. Inboard of your ears is a complex system of three semicircular canals oriented in pitch, roll, and yaw planes. Specialized cells sense movement of fluid inside the tubes and transmit information to your brain. That’s how theme park simulators trick you into believing you are upside down, or, when aboard a stationary train and another train beside you starts to move, why it creates confusion.
Initially pilots experiencing vertigo/SD acknowledge conflict between sensations and instruments; the disconnect then blurs—and finally, incapacitation follows with nausea, visual disturbances, muscle spasms, and panic. Different flying maneuvers provoke insidious, yet compelling and specific, forms of disorientation. Unlike other in-flight emergencies such as cockpit fire or catastrophic engine failure, the spatially disoriented pilot does not perceive there is anything wrong. The aptly named graveyard spiral occurs after a bank; feeling the nose drop, the pilot pulls back to initiate a climb or reduce perceived rate of descent. A tighter turn ensues that magnifies the effect and leads to a stall, overstressing the aircraft or flying into the ground.
The leans occurs after a routine turn with sudden transition to level flight provoking a feeling that one is turning the opposite way. The pilot therefore turns back to the original bank, attempting to correct to a perceived proper orientation. If a pilot turns his head out of the plane of rotation while executing a turn, perhaps looking down at a chart, a rolling sensation may occur and, depending on orientation, erroneous pitch, yaw, or roll inputs may result.
Another illusion convinces pilots they are inverted after a high-performance climb. After leveling off, a lightness in one’s seat is felt while contemporaneous seat-back pressure, caused by continued acceleration, induces continued pitch increase, eventually transitioning to the sensation of inversion."
Pilots are taught to transition to instruments when encountering vertigo and to trust their instruments. Imagine that your senses are telling you you are right side up and your instruments are telling you are in a bank diving at a high rate of speed. It is hard to ignore your body and trust your instruments. You spent a lifetime trusting your senses. The correct thing to do is follow your instruments, level the aircraft and start gaining altitude. Altitude is your friend in a helicopter.
When the pilot flew into the fog, started circling in order to locate his position on the ground he most likely started to encounter vertigo or SD. He did not realize how close he was to the hills and entered into an unknown dive/bank that he was unable to recover from or even realized before the aircraft hit the hillside.
Its happened to me and every other pilot I know. It is a scary feeling when you are as close to the ground as this pilot was. You have to recognize it quickly and climb to safety. Having a second pilot might have prevented this accident as the second pilot might not have been encountering vertigo and realized that they were in a dire situation. The second pilot, as they were taught, would take the controls from the first pilot and place the aircraft in a safe flight envelope.
Many times during my career I have had to take the controls away from my copilot because they did not recognize the dangerous position they were in. With that said, there were times I was flying and my pilot in command took over the controls. There is nothing more scary than watching your rotor blades start hitting a stationary object or the ground coming in your direction faster than you planned.
Quoted from LukyDuck:As thermionic previously stated, the most likely cause is that he was flying in the fog/clouds and developed vertigo. It is very easy to lose your sense of right side up vs down when you lose your visual reference and your internal senses are telling you something else. This is something that every pilot can encounter when flying in the clouds, fog or at night.
Below is a good explanation:
"Vertigo is a false sense of movement, causing confusion, disorientation—and, eventually, incapacitation. According to the FAA, vertigo and spatial disorientation (SD) contribute to 15 percent of accidents, typically at night or in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). Most are fatal, and experienced pilots are not immune. The U.S. Air Force investigated 633 crashes between 1980 and 1989 and referenced SD in 13 percent. Non-instrument-rated pilots have a life expectancy of less than three minutes in IMC, probably because of SD.
Positional sense in space occurs from combining visual and gravitational input, a properly functioning inner ear, and proprioception—brain feedback from nerve receptors. Ever induced a “dead arm” from lying on it? Other than looking, you have no idea where it is. That is failure of proprioception. Your inner ear plays a big role in vertigo. Inboard of your ears is a complex system of three semicircular canals oriented in pitch, roll, and yaw planes. Specialized cells sense movement of fluid inside the tubes and transmit information to your brain. That’s how theme park simulators trick you into believing you are upside down, or, when aboard a stationary train and another train beside you starts to move, why it creates confusion.
Initially pilots experiencing vertigo/SD acknowledge conflict between sensations and instruments; the disconnect then blurs—and finally, incapacitation follows with nausea, visual disturbances, muscle spasms, and panic. Different flying maneuvers provoke insidious, yet compelling and specific, forms of disorientation. Unlike other in-flight emergencies such as cockpit fire or catastrophic engine failure, the spatially disoriented pilot does not perceive there is anything wrong. The aptly named graveyard spiral occurs after a bank; feeling the nose drop, the pilot pulls back to initiate a climb or reduce perceived rate of descent. A tighter turn ensues that magnifies the effect and leads to a stall, overstressing the aircraft or flying into the ground.
The leans occurs after a routine turn with sudden transition to level flight provoking a feeling that one is turning the opposite way. The pilot therefore turns back to the original bank, attempting to correct to a perceived proper orientation. If a pilot turns his head out of the plane of rotation while executing a turn, perhaps looking down at a chart, a rolling sensation may occur and, depending on orientation, erroneous pitch, yaw, or roll inputs may result.
Another illusion convinces pilots they are inverted after a high-performance climb. After leveling off, a lightness in one’s seat is felt while contemporaneous seat-back pressure, caused by continued acceleration, induces continued pitch increase, eventually transitioning to the sensation of inversion."
Pilots are taught to transition to instruments when encountering vertigo and to trust their instruments. Imagine that your senses are telling you you are right side up and your instruments are telling you are in a bank diving at a high rate of speed. It is hard to ignore your body and trust your instruments. You spent a lifetime trusting your senses. The correct thing to do is follow your instruments, level the aircraft and start gaining altitude. Altitude is your friend in a helicopter.
When the pilot flew into the fog, started circling in order to locate his position on the ground he most likely started to encounter vertigo or SD. He did not realize how close he was to the hills and entered into an unknown dive/bank that he was unable to recover from or even realized before the aircraft hit the hillside.
Its happened to me and every other pilot I know. It is a scary feeling when you are as close to the ground as this pilot was. You have to recognize it quickly and climb to safety. Having a second pilot might have prevented this accident as the second pilot might not have been encountering vertigo and realized that they were in a dire situation. The second pilot, as they were taught, would take the controls from the first pilot and place the aircraft in a safe flight envelope.
Many times during my career I have had to take the controls away from my copilot because they did not recognize the dangerous position they were in. With that said, there were times I was flying and my pilot in command took over the controls. There is nothing more scary than watching your rotor blades start hitting a stationary object or the ground coming in your direction faster than you planned.
Thank-you for this thorough response.
Quoted from dirkdiggler:Our uncle Donny was a commercial pilot with air Canada and retired in the 90s. He was scared shitless of helicopters for some reason. I asked him why and he said because when a chopper goes down it goes straight down and if a plane is going down he can most likely try and find a field, road, etc for a emergency landing. I found it odd but kind of makes sense. Either way a horrible way to go out.
RIP to all the families involved.
An oversimplification that isn't really true..
The plane can only do that if they maintain lift... so they likely lost power, but not aerodynamic control. Helos can 'auto-rotate' and achieve the same thing under similar constraints.
Planes can drop like rocks too..
Quoted from LukyDuck:I flew helicopters for 20 years in the military as a test pilot.
Thank you for your military service LukyDuck - and to everyone else on Pinside who has served as well. You guys are invaluable to our country.
Quoted from o-din:they showed the movie Groundhog Day three times!
That seems completely appropriate.
Quoted from xian222:OP: I want to set the record straight...by making pure assumptions with absolute certainty. Smh
Agreed. The arrogance in the OPs thread title is interesting for sure. Through his experience there is a very good chance he is correct. But, setting the record straight implies that he is refuting something that has yet to be determined through the ongoing investigation. I appreciate the OPs knowledge, however, mechanical failure, structural failure of the airframe, or the pilot having a medical emergency are also all potential causes of the accident that I’m sure are being investigated.
Quoted from wrb1977:The arrogance in the OPs thread title is interesting for sure.
I think your word "arrogance" is just flat out wrong. Reread the OP's original post. He states that he is traumatized by the events that have transpired. I do not think he is being arrogant what so ever 
QSS
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:I think your word "arrogance" is just flat out wrong. Reread the OP's original post. He states that he is traumatized by the events that have transpired. I do not think he is being arrogant what so ever
QSS
I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word “arrogance”. I was referring to the title of his thread and not the content of his post. First, when the OP says he wanted to set the record straight that implies that there is a “record” to set straight. The investigation is ongoing and no factual information or “record” has been released, so at this point in time there is no official “record” to set straight. Second, when the OP says he wants to set the record straight, this implies that he is refuting the evidence and wants to tell his side which would differ from what the official investigation found. The official cause of the accident is still a ways out. I have no doubt he is very upset and sympathetic of the accident and probably is right about what happened. How he approached the subject without being involved first hand, was presumptuous and arrogant as he does not know what really happened as do any of us. I don’t think the OP is a bad person at all, I appreciate his insight, I just feel he was pushing his opinions off as fact.
Quoted from wrb1977:I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word “arrogance”. I was referring to the title of his thread and not the content of his post. First, when the OP says he wanted to set the record straight that implies that there is a “record” to set straight. The investigation is ongoing and no factual information or “record” has been released, so at this point in time there is no official “record” to set straight. Second, when the OP says he wants to set the record straight, this implies that he is refuting the evidence and wants to tell his side which would differ from what the official investigation found. The official cause of the accident is still a ways out. I have no doubt he is very upset and sympathetic of the accident and probably is right about what happened. How he approached the subject without being involved first hand, was presumptuous and arrogant as he does not know what really happened as do any of us. I don’t think the OP is a bad person at all, I appreciate his insight, I just feel he was pushing his opinions off as fact.
When I first read the title " I want to set the record straight" I too thought that the OP was being arrogant. Once I read his post I realized his title might have been a little misguided but his insight as to what happened was bang on....... his aviation experience and his take on what went down was right on the money .....in my opinion. His interpretation of the accident and his subsequent "venting" was what I found authentic and genuine. Time will tell if the OP was correct and the investigation into the crash will reveal the facts. It will reveal if the OP was correct or not. I saw though his title and I was able to sympathize with his venting and sadness of the tragic events.
QSS
Quoted from wrb1977:I have no doubt he is very upset and sympathetic of the accident and probably is right about what happened. How he approached the subject without being involved first hand, was presumptuous and arrogant as he does not know what really happened as do any of us. I don’t think the OP is a bad person at all, I appreciate his insight, I just feel he was pushing his opinions off as fact.
Another armchair fighter pilot.
But he did have first hand knowledge with the transcripts and flight data that he got to review. Do you have access to any of that? Didn't think so. So yes, he is more involved and his HIGHLY educated "opinions" on the subject are no less fact than what the so called investigations will reveal.
Can't you find something else to be offended about?
Quoted from vdojaq:But he did have first hand knowledge with the transcripts and flight data that he got to review. Do you have access to any of that? Didn't think so.
He was just reading the publicly available data.. same as anyone else.
Quoted from vdojaq:Another armchair fighter pilot.
But he did have first hand knowledge with the transcripts and flight data that he got to review. Do you have access to any of that? Didn't think so. So yes, he is more involved and his HIGHLY educated "opinions" on the subject are no less fact than what the so called investigations will reveal.
Can't you find something else to be offended about?
Yes, we all do. They were almost immediately available on YouTube. Last I checked, there is no conclusion yet regarding what caused the pilot to make that hard left bank in the final moments of the flight. OP claims to be telepathic and know exactly, beyond any doubt, what the pilot was thinking. That's nearly absurd as you claiming the OP's opinion as fact.
Quoted from Fizz:I'm not a pilot, but in my industry, EVERYTHING has redundancy to avoid a single point of failure taking the system down.
It would seem to me that in a helicopter, the single most important element requiring redundancy would be the pilot.
Kobe was taking lessons from this guy. Kobe was the co-pilot.
Quoted from flynnibus:He was just reading the publicly available data.. same as anyone else.
I would be very inclined to think he would have more data available to him than the average Joe.
Quoted from xian222:Yes, we all do. They were almost immediately available on YouTube. Last I checked, there is no conclusion yet regarding what caused the pilot to make that hard left bank in the final moments of the flight. OP claims to be telepathic and know exactly, beyond any doubt, what the pilot was thinking. That's nearly absurd as you claiming the OP's opinion as fact.
Hey, if that's your take man you should consider yourself lucky to have such issues to take measures with.
Quoted from vdojaq:Another armchair fighter pilot.
But he did have first hand knowledge with the transcripts and flight data that he got to review. Do you have access to any of that? Didn't think so. So yes, he is more involved and his HIGHLY educated "opinions" on the subject are no less fact than what the so called investigations will reveal.
Can't you find something else to be offended about?
I wasn’t offended about anything. I may be wrong, maybe the OP can clarify, but the full investigation (or so called investigations as you call it 
) conducted by the NTSB will reveal findings that will be more fact than the opinions provided by the OP. Seems like you have an issue with those conducting the official investigation? There is a reason that the final report in accidents like this can take a year or more. Once again, and I’ll go slow for you @vdojaq, I believe the OP probably is right, I do not think I know more than him nor do I think I know what happened, he just came across that he knew what happened and at this point that has not been determined. I am not an armchair fighter pilot, and no I do not have access to any first hand knowledge. I only brought up other possible causes as I have absolutely no idea what happened! Just pure speculation like the rest of us. And I’ll go slow for you yet once again...
I. Was. Not. Offended.
I. Appreciate. His. Insight.
Quoted from spfxted:Kobe was taking lessons from this guy. Kobe was the co-pilot.
Did they state somewhere that Kobe was indeed sitting up front as a co-pilot?
If so, wouldn't that take out the medical situation as he would have been able to help the pilot - unless he was new to flying.
Quoted from wrb1977:I wasn’t offended about anything. I may be wrong, maybe the OP can clarify, but the full investigation (or so called investigations as you call it ) conducted by the NTSB will reveal findings that will be more fact than the opinions provided by the OP. Seems like you have an issue with those conducting the official investigation? There is a reason that the final report in accidents like this can take a year or more. Once again, and I’ll go slow for you vdojaq, I believe the OP probably is right, I do not think I know more than him nor do I think I know what happened, he just came across that he knew what happened and at this point that has not been determined. I am not an armchair fighter pilot, and no I do not have access to any first hand knowledge. I only brought up other possible causes as I have absolutely no idea what happened! Just pure speculation like the rest of us. And I’ll go slow for you yet once again...
I. Was. Not. Offended.
I. Appreciate. His. Insight.
Calling him(O.P.) out as presumptuous and arrogant seem to dictate otherwise.
Quoted from 3pinballs:Did they state somewhere that Kobe was indeed sitting up front as a co-pilot?
If so, wouldn't that take out the medical situation as he would have been able to help the pilot - unless he was new to flying.
I was told that there are 2 positions up front and almost certainly Kobe was in the co-pilot seat.
Quoted from vdojaq:I would be very inclined to think he would have more data available to him than the average Joe.
He has experience and training in the subject matter - he was not an insider or privy to unreleased details. He even said it in the OP for those who understand what he was referencing. You can find much more streamlined versions of the same theories in the news articles I linked... from other trained pilots.
The whole 'shut this down' tone and leaping to conclusive conclusions is what rubbed people wrong. Yet some apparently... took it as 'oh, case closed!'
Quoted from spfxted:I was told that there are 2 positions up front and almost certainly Kobe was in the co-pilot seat.
Wow. If that's true then there's a chance that Kobe was actually flying when it went down.
Quoted from PismoArcade:Didn't know that....thanks.
Screen Shot 2020-01-30 at 11.27.38 AM (resized).pngQuoted from spfxted:I was told that there are 2 positions up front and almost certainly Kobe was in the co-pilot seat.
I'm usually pretty good at figuring out when people are joking around on the forum, but in this case, I'm not sure. Are you just messing with us or is this real?
I'm guessing if this were true it would have been highlighted in the news reports.
Quoted from bssbllr:I do believe flying by helicopter is safer then by car.[quoted image]
Yeah, flying by car is not safe at all.
Am I the only one who doesn't care at all. Didn't know him, don't watch basketball and feel nothing.
Quoted from Hazoff:Am I the only one who doesn't care at all. Didn't know him, don't watch basketball and feel nothing.
It's not just him man...show a little empathy! Multiple generations of at least four different families were lost in one tragic accident. They are all human beings with family members who loved them. It's normal not to be all broken up inside when you didn't know them personally. However, death touches us all at some point and time.
Quoted from Hazoff:Am I the only one who doesn't care at all. Didn't know him, don't watch basketball and feel nothing.
Nope. Plenty of people have said this, and always do whenever a celeb dies. Thanks for joining in. Next time please mention the troops or some other dead people who are more deserving of attention, it adds some color to it.
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