Monroe Township, NJ
post deleted
(Topic ID: 205939)
Quoted from phillyfan64:Sorry didn’t mean to highjack your restoration thread! I got them rebuilt. Combo of Williams EOS switches with fishpaper taken from the PBR switch. Just like Vid’s guide suggests.
[quoted image]
No problem man I’m glad you got it figured out!
4 weeks later
Quoted from Mathazar:mrm_4 - how did you paint your saucer black....spray, brush, or both? I like the look and before I put down a hardtop on my MH, I'm thinking of painting mine black as well.
Funny story about that... it actually came from an accident I had when I started sanding the arch. There was a piece of the pf splintered at the top and I tried to sand it out and made things worse.
Like most of my ideas, I get frustrated and jump to the extreme. I decided to paint the arch area black and with that decision I painted the saucer too.
To answer your question I did everything with a brush. You cant tell because of the 800 coats of clear. But I did this restoration before knowing airbrushing was better or knowing of waterslide decals. Would love to go back in time and tell myself to do things differently but I’m still happy with this machine.
I love the black saucer look. I say go for it, Arcane is the only one I know that did it after seeing mine, so I say join our club. Just make sure you clear it afterward.
Since my name was mentioned in the previous post, let me tell how I did mine.
After careful sanding of the hole and putting putty wherever it needs to go, I used black Gesso which is acrylic based and is used to prepare artist canvas before painting a masterpiece. The Gesso was applied with a soft brush. The good stuff about Gesso is that it levels perfectly (you may need to thin it with a little bit of water before brushing it), dries with a very deep matte and total absence of brush marks. Of course, as Matt indicated it, you need to clear coat it as it is not solid enough to withstand the shocks of the ball.
Yves
mrm_4 /
Arcane - looking for advice on how to address this. I had really nasty, dirty ball tracks up the shooter and across the arc at the top of the playfield. Between Novus 2 elbow grease, magic eraser, and sanding down with my orbital I got it to he point where it's nice and smooth to the touch, but traces of the ball track are seen as white (plus in some areas where I sanded, it's also a little white). After wiping down with naphtha, it looks much better but after a few minutes of evaporation, it's back to white. Is wiping with naphtha and indication of how it will look after applying clear? Will applying poly help with the coloration?
Here's what it looks like before naphtha and after it evaporates:
IMG_6445 (resized).jpgIMG_6446 (resized).jpgIMG_6448 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mathazar:Here's what it looks like a few seconds after applying naphtha:[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Might want to sand the surrounding areas more to make them match. Or use lacquer thinner on the wood to see if you can get the rest of the top coat off. Maybe even get a blonde-ish colored matching wood stain to see if that would help and just restrain all the barewood.
Honestly the pics with the naphtha don’t look that bad.
I might be the wrong person to ask haha. I freaked out and painted it all. 
2 months later
Sometimes I forget I own this sexy little She-devil. Might be the bourbon but I felt the need to take a few intimate pics.
EF77F4E2-92B8-4103-B400-730E7B74C562 (resized).jpeg4D567856-5D58-4BD7-AACE-9A6ADC7F20FB (resized).jpeg5459685B-31B3-4C63-A667-7C4A510F68CA (resized).jpegE1417FFE-06B5-45DE-9E08-5EEC9615B1B9 (resized).jpeg39157530-77E2-49E7-826B-BA0D3B4403B9 (resized).jpegAE294DFF-479A-4D17-8CBD-46F959A750D8 (resized).jpegQuoted from mrm_4:Sometimes I forget I own this sexy little She-devil. Might be the bourbon but I felt the need to take a few intimate pics.
So, so very nice. That cabinet interior shot is inspirational....someday, I hope my MH can match it. I'm very happy with how my playfield came out, and I also have a brand new CPR backglass, legs, and levelers. I'm working up the courage to re-do my MH cabinet like yours! I'm going to practice by repairing and painting a Bally SS cabinet next month with a Black Jack project I've been working on. If I screw it up no biggie....I bought it non-working for under $100 and have put only about $75 in it getting the boards, power supply, flippers, and everything else working 100%. 
3 weeks later
3 weeks later
Hey I was reading your thread again today. Where did you track down the new cards for inside the backbox? Mine fell apart when I removed them.
Having a hard time finding the Bally apron decals too
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:Hey I was reading your thread again today. Where did you track down the new cards for inside the backbox? Mine fell apart when I removed them.
Having a hard time finding the Bally apron decals too
1 month later
Quoted from mrm_4:Now what in God’s name would I be doing with a sanded down playfield? [quoted image]
You’re at it again! Hard top!
Quoted from mrm_4:Now what in God’s name would I be doing with a sanded down playfield? [quoted image]
Hardtop baby!
Do you have one squirreled away or do you need to wait for Outside Edge to come back online (hopefully next month)? I'm waiting as patiently as I can for them to come back with an EBD...."supposed" to happen later this year.
Post many photos of your process because I’ll be very curious, especially if you paint the scoop, apply clear & do the hardtop
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:Post many photos of your process because I’ll be very curious, especially if you paint the scoop, apply clear & do the hardtop
HoakyPoaky - I've got a few pictures from my MH hardtop install if
mrm_4 doesn't mind me posting them in his thread. It was the first time I'd done anything like this and I learned a lot. I only tore down the topside and while I sanded the whole playfield, I only removed artwork from around the inserts. I cleared the inserts after wet sanding the scratches out, repaired, painted, and cleared the scoop, and applied polyurethane to the bare wood areas on the apron, arch, and shooter lane before laying down the hardtop. After the hardtop was laid down, I needed to dremel out a couple of dozen hardtop holes that didn't align 100%. I completely disassembled and rebuilt the drop targets (including new targets), rebuilt the flippers, put in new CPR plastics and backglass, and converted to LEDs. Extremely satisfied with the results, both in looks and play (man, it's fast now).
01 - Sanding Down Inserts (resized).JPG02 - Sanding Down Inserts (resized).JPG03 - Ball Track (resized).jpg04 - Original Saucer (resized).jpg05 - Saucer Repair (resized).jpg06 - Saucer Painted (resized).jpg07 - Mased for Clearing Inserts (resized).jpg08 - Clearing Inserts and Saucer (resized).jpg09 - Masked for Poly (Wood) (resized).jpg10 - Hartop Test Alignment (resized).JPG11 - Reassembly (resized).jpg12 - Done (resized).jpg13 - Done (resized).JPGQuoted from Mathazar:Do you have one squirreled away or do you need to wait for Outside Edge to come back online (hopefully next month)? I'm waiting as patiently as I can for them to come back with an EBD...."supposed" to happen later this year.
Kind of fell into one.
My buddy @fattdirk called me in an uproar that outside edge had one at the Cleveland show. After some soul searching of about 4 minutes I decided to get it.
Sadly the playfield that I have in the game now has some major ghosting issues with the clear coat. Major bummer but that’s the way it goes sometimes.
I’m excited to be working on my baby again tho 
Hey @mathazar what did you end up using to fill in the wood for the saucer? Plastic wood or some kind of bondo, also what paint and clear did you use? I was considering just 2Xing the saucer gloss black and using Krylon Crystal clear. I like the poly idea for the barewood.
How’s the saucer holding up? My current playfield is beat the clear couldn’t handle the impact of the ball hitting the backside of the hole.
Quoted from mrm_4:Hey @mathazar what did you end up using to fill in the wood for the saucer? Plastic wood or some kind of bondo, also what paint and clear did you use? I was considering just 2Xing the saucer gloss black and using Krylon Crystal clear. I like the poly idea for the barewood.
How’s the saucer holding up? My current playfield is beat the clear couldn’t handle the impact of the ball hitting the backside of the hole.
I used Liquidtex Black Gesso on the saucer, applied with a fine brush. I think I did three coats, then shot it with Krylon Crystal clear. The saucer itself is holding up well after about 200 games, but I must admit the backside of the saucer hole is starting to wear and some very small areas of the original wood is starting to show through there. At the next topside tear down for new rubbers and cleaning (maybe over the Christmas holiday), I was thinking I might touch it up and re-clear it with a different brand rattle can and see if it lasts longer. Or maybe do more than just a couple coats of clear. I'm not brave enough (or equipped) to do 2PAC.
Mathazar That’s why I was wasn’t planning to paint my scoop. I wasn’t sure multiple rattle can clear would be strong enough to withstand 1000s of games played on it. Thanks for the report on your wear. Did you paint black edges around your inserts before laying down the hardtop? I haven’t seen that before.
mrm_4 I’m confused. You’re removing your original & reinstalling a second hardtop on your restore? What do you mean ghosting with the clearcoat?
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:Did you paint black edges around your inserts before laying down the hardtop? I haven’t seen that before.
I did at first - I read on a couple of other pinside posts about hardtop installations that it was best to outline the inserts in black because the hardtops don't always align 100% and you don't want bare wood showing through. I found that after painting around the inserts (and letting it dry for several days), the paint would smear with the first coat of clear. I resanded and started over a couple of times, retrying the process each time (with different paints, different dry times, and different rattle can clear). Never could get it to *not* smear so I just took it off and did a test alignment with the hardtop and while many of the screw holes did not align 100%, the insert alignment was great and I chose not to paint the insert outlines. Came out just fine.
The clear is separating from the playfield on almost every insert and in places that don’t even make sense. My theory is this playfield had a bow in it with the center arched up and as time goes on the playfield levels and the clear is separating. And let’s be honest, I sucked at painting this thing anyways. I didn’t know about water slides. As for the saucer. My issue is the clear cracking not the paint. If you clear the saucer without painting the ball is still slamming into clear coat over and over.
2F828E0F-5F5F-4124-BF70-E15E232562DE (resized).jpegA3261F34-B96C-42C2-ACA3-6ACF4F3ADCC0 (resized).jpegA406BC41-E602-4D31-9A42-DA20CEE1506F (resized).jpegAF1C889D-CACC-438D-98E2-6786E88A2EB7 (resized).jpegC0D74E84-6BBC-4A2E-9C46-0420C59A1285 (resized).jpegF40200C2-8497-4ABA-8AD0-56CAA3EEA0FD (resized).jpegF4DCEA6A-2344-406D-BF8E-A5CAA1F9B310 (resized).jpegThe playfield in the game now will be awesome wall art for the Mata Hari I’ve spent about $1.7 million dollars on, once it’s finished 
Quoted from mrm_4:The playfield in the game now will be awesome wall art for the Mata Hari I’ve spent about $1.7 million dollars on, once it’s finished
mrm_4 that’s a major bummer. I thought you did an awesome job on that. I’ll be following your do-over.
I decided to test something with Ace Hardware’s brand of Enamel. I noticed this stuff has a different feel to it compared to Rustoleum 2X when I was doing my Shangri-La cabinet. It sprays thinner and dries super fast and over all seems to bond better.
So at 4pm after being pissed off at The Browns I painted this board. Super fine mist after super fine mist one minute apart. Probably 15 layers when all said and done. At 7pm I held a pinball at 7 feet off the ground and dropped the ball about 6-8 times.
Notice the wood is dented from the impact but this paint is unscathed. Nothing removed from the wood and nothing on the ball. I’m sold on what I will use for the saucer.
0469E1AB-A226-45A3-9335-2C4A2136057C (resized).jpegD4FD63C4-ED5F-422B-97A2-78C56AE276D9 (resized).jpegCEA0DEB6-1731-4660-AB2C-B6CB0B9CBE28 (resized).jpeg21D871E2-FFC4-4FA2-9D70-142AB1334376 (resized).jpegOr I might just poly this thing as is and leave my own “Black Saucer Club” the more I think about it there’s nothing you can do here for a chewed up saucer on this game short of creating some kind of metal fitting. Which would be a major pain. No matter what the ball is slamming into this and crushing the wood, smashing new clear coat, and removing paint. Another issue is direct hits to the middle cause the ball to smack the plastic arches and bounce into the glass. Decisions.... 
33F8B2E5-F450-4FE8-8794-A92B85B8D79D (resized).jpegQuoted from mrm_4:Another issue is direct hits to the middle cause the ball to smack the plastic arches and bounce into the glass.
I think that is pretty common on Mata Hari, at least it happens pretty frequently on both mine and a friend’s example. I think it may happen more on mine than his, though. What’s odd is that his is set really shallow, while mine is steep. I’d have thought it would be the other way around.
Matt,
I am sorry to hear about your ordeals with your Mata Hari playfield. I wonder if the clear was correctly applied (I seem to remember that you had someone do it for you).
I have not had any issue with mine, although it was painted in many places. I have been using MaxSpray 2K clear coat which seems to be more souple and resilient than automotive clearcoat. I would definitely encourage you to give it a try, if you plane to do it yourself. Plus, doing it at home gives you the freedom to sand to perfection, fill up the inserts and get the perfect playfield you are looking for.
I am a believer in that Max Spray 2K stuff. Also, a lot less expensive than having a professional clear coat if for you.
Yves
Quoted from mrm_4:The clear is separating from the playfield on almost every insert and in places that don’t even make sense. My theory is this playfield had a bow in it with the center arched up and as time goes on the playfield levels and the clear is separating. And let’s be honest, I sucked at painting this thing anyways. I didn’t know about water slides. As for the saucer. My issue is the clear cracking not the paint. If you clear the saucer without painting the ball is still slamming into clear coat over and over.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Ah my bad, I'm getting my restore threads all mixed up. I thought you originally applied a hardtop, but now I see you did touchups & had it cleared originally. Man that is a huge bummer for you. Sorry you ran into so many headaches on this restore. I'll be watching your hardtop application closely
The more I look at how this looks the way that I painted it, the more I wish this was some kind of saucer fitting laying in the hole. It almost appears as if it’s a piece of metal placed over the saucer. 
This would be an amazing mod, to have a thin piece of metal molded to the saucer, adhered to the playfield like you see in my pic and then the hard top installed over top of it.
Still have a little more prep work for the playfield before I lay the hardtop down. Need a new orange insert for the extra ball, gonna clear coat the groove of the shooter lane, and I still need to figure out what I’m doing about the saucer. I took the kick out mech off of the current pf and put it on the replacement pf. The wood is beat down so shallow that the fins and the hammer stick out from the wood. Not sure how bad that’ll impact the play of the game. I’m thinking a single washer between the underside of the pf and the kick out device should be enough to keep the fins and hammer flush.
Is mylar pliable with heat? I’d like to mylar the saucer but due to the odd shape it would need to be several pieces unless I could get it to shape properly. Maybe there is a flexible substitute?
Quoted from mrm_4:Picked up the hardtop today! Thanks for helping me out on this one skypilot
This thing is so sexy in person and the registration is almost dead on. I lucked out.[quoted image][quoted image]
Give me one of those! Can’t wait to order mine
Quoted from mrm_4:Still have a little more prep work for the playfield before I lay the hardtop down. Need a new orange insert for the extra ball, gonna clear coat the groove of the shooter lane, and I still need to figure out what I’m doing about the saucer. I took the kick out mech off of the current pf and put it on the replacement pf. The wood is beat down so shallow that the fins and the hammer stick out from the wood. Not sure how bad that’ll impact the play of the game. I’m thinking a single washer between the underside of the pf and the kick out device should be enough to keep the fins and hammer flush.
Is mylar pliable with heat? I’d like to mylar the saucer but do to the odd shape it would need to be several pieces unless I could get it to shape properly. Maybe there is a flexible substitute?
There’s no solution out there for large saucer protection on these games? Even if there was something to put on the surface of the saucer, it’s probablygoing to interfere with the hardtop laying flat.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:There’s no solution out there for large saucer protection on these games? Even if there was something to put on the surface of the saucer, it’s probablygoing to interfere with the hardtop laying flat.
If something exists I haven’t come across it yet. I wanted to do something like this with mylar but the irregular shape foiled that plan.
927626DD-BE8B-444B-A8DB-4ACFD8D253DC (resized).jpegC54B3F43-F6F2-4308-BBC7-E0D8AA7F1399 (resized).jpegB8D131D1-B08E-485C-AD86-A2BFDAE14FFC (resized).jpegMy Mata Hari kickout area has taken a beating as well. Seems like a thin molded liner/overlay might be a good idea. Sort of a really shallow bowl, but with the bottom open where it needs to be. 3D printing? Just a thought.
A few posts back I drew up a design to completely replace the saucer with 3D print. Just don’t know if I have the stomach to experiment with it
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:I wouldn’t drill a huge hole my field to install a 3d printed saucer. Too scary I’d screw it up.
I’d practice on a scrap piece of ply and dial it in before I did it on a true PF. So I guess it wouldn’t be that bad if I worked out all the kinks before going to town on the real deal
2 weeks later
Ok so the extreme idea of creating a 3D printed saucer went out the window. Just painted it and cleared.
Now I’m hoping I stumbled across a secret weapon. Time will tell but I’m super impressed with this clear enamel I bought from Ace Hardware. I laid down coats by spraying in 2 passes left to right waited 2 minutes and then up and down probably about 10 times. Waited 2 days, wet sanded with 800 grit, then laid down more. I repeated this entire process 3 times.
This clear coat dries super fast and is sand-able the next day. It levels it self REALLY well. Every time I was done spraying I felt terrible wet sanding but I needed to do it to help level the sunken areas in the wood. I just finished it today and I’m happy with it.
I’m gonna let it cure a couple weeks before I install the hardtop. Then when I do my PF swap the week I’m off for thanksgiving, I’ll give it a wax. But after the final coat I’m not sanding or buffing this. Looks good to me.
D73FA51A-5880-44DB-AA6D-890F3BF21255 (resized).jpeg
First coat
7FD3DBC8-653B-42A8-8709-4D0221F5AE54 (resized).jpeg
After wet sanding
6F44D493-A019-47D9-831E-04676F4DEB3A (resized).jpeg
Final coat from today
3AB3D46E-3681-44D1-8AA0-210D7EA0A3CA (resized).jpeg75A897E6-B98E-4F20-9B9B-680E8FE8419F (resized).jpeg203B0C01-2771-4FC7-AF38-CF3A271580AA (resized).jpeg358C84D1-9321-4CEE-A295-A49CB34FFF6B (resized).jpeg14314834-5EA5-4C50-826F-10CB98BFB44D (resized).jpeg46444E3C-20C6-4EE7-87E2-CA79FEA0E968 (resized).jpegF999AC13-CE59-41BF-8721-969828D988B3 (resized).jpeg
Just checking to see how it looks with the hardtop laid on it. EA04F7CD-8F06-481A-8C54-79D5DD628AD7 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from mrm_4:Ok so the extreme idea of creating a 3D printed saucer went out the window. Just painted it and cleared.
Now I’m hoping I stumbled across a secret weapon. Time will tell but I’m super impressed with this clear enamel I bought from Ace Hardware. I laid down coats by spraying in 2 passes left to right waited 2 minutes and then up and down probably about 10 times. Waited 2 days, wet sanded with 800 grit, then laid down more. I repeated this entire process 3 times.
This clear coat dries super fast and is sand-able the next day. It levels it self REALLY well. Every time I was done spraying I felt terrible wet sanding but I needed to do it to help level the sunken areas in the wood. I just finished it today and I’m happy with it.
I’m gonna let it cure a couple weeks before I install the hardtop. Then when I do my PF swap the week I’m off for thanksgiving, I’ll give it a wax. But after the final coat I’m not sanding or buffing this. Looks good to me.
[quoted image]
First coat
[quoted image]
After wet sanding
[quoted image]
Final coat from today
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Just checking to see how it looks with the hardtop laid on it. [quoted image]
Wow....that looks fantastic!!
Quoted from Mathazar:Wow....that looks fantastic!!
Thanks!
I’m telling you, this clear enamel is a god send hiding in plain sight!
Thank god you decided not to drill. I was really concerned for you if that went wrong.
But your saucer looks really impressive. Did you use the same technique on a test piece of wood to check how it holds up to abuse? I’m just curious how this differs from your last attempt where the clear started cracking.
I’m curious how thick that square layer of clear is around the saucer, and if it’s going to cause any issues when laying the hardtop over it since it’s not a completely level surface. Maybe you’re planning on sanding that before permanently putting down the hard top?
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