Congo was ridiculed on RGP when I bought it around 2002. A few times I did think: “People don’t like this game; maybe I should sell it.” I’m glad I held onto it. Th only rating that matters is your own.

I do not pay any attention to the top 100, it is not an accurate poll because of too many variances. The problem I have with it is number one- lots of ratings have become old and have not been updated, including mine making them useless. Opinions change with time, the more games you play the more your personal top 100 changes. Second is number of votes required to make the poll. I have brought this up before but I believe a minimum of 100 votes is needed to make the list. The new released games will skew the poll because of the honeymoon stage and not having a minimum number to qualify for the top 100. Take the top 100 with a grain of salt, it helps show some popular titles but it is all subjective. When I first joined Pinside I would look at top 100 all the time, I don't think I have looked at it in years now. I have my own top 100 in my head, and I guarantee it is different from anyone else's top 100.

rankings are like the horoscope;its fun when it matches up with your day or game in this case......but you dont live your life by it and you dont build your collection by it.

TNA is a better game than TWD.

The only top 100 that matters to me is “my” top 100, reading other pinheads thoughts, opinions and reviews is interesting, to see what others think compared to me but ultimately the only reviews that should matter are your own, the top 100 is just another fun feature pinside offers.

Still laughing at the idea of the top 100 being “kind of a big deal.”

It’s brilliant marketing on the part of pinside but incredibly
Lame marketing whenever anybody else tries to invoke it when selling a game. It brings a lot of people to pinside but I think most people ignore it and/or groan when used car salesman types try to use it to sell games.

I’ve never looked at it. Not once.

The reviews should expire over time. Then you get a notification that your rating is expiring and you can approve it again or adjust your rating. It's crazy that MM is the top game still. I think there are so many games that are much better. It was rated in a vacuum back when it was the best. I know I've been super pumped about games in the past and grew tired of them quickly.

Buy what you want and play what you want ! Throw out ratings

I couldn't agree more that an overhaul of the top 100 should be considered. The evolution of pinball has advance w/ technology & how does one compare an early solid state machine w/ a Jersey Jack or even a modern Stern title? As Pinside does have a separate category ranking for EM's, there should be a breakdown in terms of early solid state verses DMD titles. How is it possible that Quicksilver or Eight Ball Deluxe are ranked higher than Mustang or even Baywatch? Yes those titles are classics, but in terms of advanced technology, the top 100 is a mismatch & mixture of cats verses dogs. Early solid state/alpha numeric titles should be segregated from DMD/LCD titles!

It's pretty simple many of us like Quicksilver and EBD a lot more then Baywatch and Mustang. Advanced technology does not just make a game better.

Do we really need 10 different top 10s just so that everyone can feel like their games are ranked high enough.

Why else would I own them unless they were perfect 10s? Seems silly to spend a couple grand on a toy that has flaws, don't you think?

Don't they pull out the "all 10" scores anyways, figuring they're bogus?

Sure.....

So let’s say your neighbor was moving and offered you a wheel of fortune for $800 and you buy it.

Game is instantly a 10, right? Perfect in every way, or else why would you own it?!

Just need a toggle in the rankings list that allows you to filter and re-rank the list for games that have more than “x” ratings. This why the user can digest the data the best way they see fit.

I find it strange that you have such strong opinions about the top 100 list and then you also find it strange that other people have such strong opinions about it as well.

Also, cars. Because cars. Always cars.

It’s a valid discussion point for a Pinball forum. Don’t worry about all the Sh** talkers. Their response, in itself, proves its valid and interesting enough to comment on.

It's not strange at all. There are lots of pinsiders that do the same thing. Buy a game, it's perfect and it's a 10 because they now own it. Rinse and repeat. I'm not sure how so many games that are so different are all perfect but whatever floats your boat.

Most of us see this as someone trying to influence the ratings to improve the ranking of whatever they own. Many of the games you rated also do not have close to 1000 reviews. Did you wait 6 months to rate GB or did you rate it a 10 shortly after purchasing? If you didn't wait you are contributing to the problem that bothers you.

The Pinside 100 isn't perfect. But looking at the list the top 5 are all great games so maybe it works to a degree.

Great, so why did you start this thread then? You seem to be bothered by the fact that TNA is currently ranked higher than TWD. Are the people who ranked TNA not entitled to their opinions as well?...or should only people who rank GB a 10 be previledged enough to have a say?

It's funny that the topic of the Top 100 came up because this was just discussed while playing the new Houdini at a friend's house last night. The new Houdini already ranks as number 33 on the Top 100 with only 20 ratings/votes. Is this game really a number 33 game? Only time will tell. Having some way of holding off on a game making it to the Top 100 until it has more ratings, or has been out in public for 6 months, wouldn't be a bad idea. This would help ensure that a game really appeals to the mass population rather than a small sampling of people.

I'm using Houdini as an example because it is my understanding that only 40 of these games have made and delivered, so not many people have actually played the game yet. I'm NOT saying anything bad about the game at all, and I'm not saying it doesn't deserve to be ranked at number 33, I'm just saying that I might agree that it's to early to see it in the Top 100.

For example, there was a time early on when AC/DC came out that it ranked in the top 3 (if my memory serves me correct) on the Top 100 list, it may have even hit number 1 for a brief period of time. As of today, AC/DC has 1,130 ratings on Pinside, which is just 2 short of the 1,132 ratings for Attack from Mars, which came out back in 1995. That being said, I think it's safe to say AC/DC has settled in to the spot on Top 100 where it belongs, which is the number 9 spot rather than in the top 3.

For me, I don't really care where games rank on the Top 100, in fact, I never look at the Top 100. I buy games that my family and I enjoy playing. I'm only responding to this thread because another person that was playing and enjoying Houdini last night mentioned how high the game already ranked in the Pinside Top 100.

With that being said, I think I'm going to go play a game of Avengers LE Hulk...which didn't even make the Top 100.

Agreed. This like asking which baseball player is the greatest. Ruth? Aaron? Bonds? (Steroids aside....) They are all from different eras but they were all great players. When I rank a game I try to compare it against what was available in that era. I believe if somebody is interested in an early solid state game, they likely are trying to get a feel for how it compares with its peers. Nobody is trying to decide between Fathom or LOTR when they are trying to decide on a game for their game room. That’s where I think a games rating has value. I would place more value on the individual rating as opposed to its place on the list.

In regards to rating a game a 10, I don’t think there is a perfect game out there. I would ask the OP to stack rank his collection. If he can do that and pick games in it he would rather keep if he had to and some he would be willing to let go if he had to, then he’s not being honest with his ratings.

New games generate the most interest and the most internet searches.

These games come up on the top 100 and drive people to pinside.

Doesn’t take a genius to figure out there’s really no incentive to change the current system.

Funniest thing in this thread is the fact that someone ranked GB a 10

This is where the “out of 10” ranking breaks down. You might own a Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche; all three are a “10 out of 10” in your mind, but one of them is better then the others for whatever reason (mileage, top speed, seat warmer) and should therefore be ranked higher.

To say that multiple pins are a 10 out of 10 is possible, but you will always choose one to play over the other, making it better. People ranking games should be forced to choose individual rankings for each game. Not all games can be a 10 out of 10 and players need to decide what one is better.

Maybe if a player ranks one game the exact same as another game that they’ve ranked, then pinside could force them to pick the better of the two; adding a modifier to their 10 out of 10 rank.

Just throw out ratings by a Pinsider with that pin in their collection. Easy way to eliminate a large portion of the bias.

Next, suspend, or at least hide, the ratings for a 3 year or so probationary period when a new game is released. This would neutralize a good portion of the "hype voting".

I find that newbies love rankings and veterans hate them. I’m new to this one so I appreciate having a consolidated suggestion of where to start learning. But in my other hobbies I resent average-based lists for favoring standard, inoffensive titles over ones that take risks and stand out.

I’ve seen other communities address this by giving each user a top list. Veterans seemed to prefer top list count over average rating, since, to OP’s point, it was less volatile. You might give a new game a perfect 10, but would replace one of your favorites? And the game on the most top lists might have a 7.0 rating if it has depth you can’t appreciate in an hour on location.

There’s a lot of good reasons listed here already as to why Top 100 lists are flawed, here or otherwise. I personally have 3 critiques of bias in the rankings.

1 - Some people game their ratings to keep their favorite pins up top or sabotage pins they don’t like in reviews. You can see this in low ratings with few or no comments or ranking trends of certain Pinsiders. It was much more apparent between Williams and Stern games prior to the new games from JJP and the other manufacturers.

2 - Then there are the favorites in manufacturers where people seem to join teams based on who made the game. For example the Williams snobs, Stern haters and/or apologists, Spooky lovers, JJP lovers and/or haters, or any combination of vice versa. This is the one that makes the least sense to me but you can see the team sport aspect brought to light in numerous threads.

3 - New games are judged very quickly and the reviews often aren’t updated. Some games get super high ratings during their honeymoon period and appear in the Top 100 super high at first, until sometimes swatted down by the first or second group’s ratings to counter balance the over inflated rankings of those who they believe to be noobs. Others with a slow coding start like TWD have a difficult time ever recovering in the rankings, despite becoming awesome games. Same just recently with BM66 and perhaps in the future with GotG for all we know. Though all are probably doomed to never rank much higher. Fair or not, early poor code haunts games lifelong in the rankings, which is a good reason, along with the honeymoon period, to have a 12 month period after release before ratings can be made.

The same with TNA - is it really number 17 with only 80 reviews and a limited number of games made? Maybe so maybe not. It’s too early to say along with Houdini. Maybe a certain number of games need to ship or a year since the first game shipped before it truly belongs in the ratings.

I support a waiting period on all new games. Let's do this folks!

Might I suggest a separate voting pool for games either in production or less than 1 year from first date of production.

Wait... so if the ranking are just opinions then why are you complaining about the rankings being too opinionated? I’m confused by the logic.

This is a great idea, perfect time of year for it. Let the pinball March Madness begin. They should do it annually, would be great for the site. Require a small donation to open the brackets, maybe give it a bit of status so you can get a tag as a voting member.

I rated MMR before I bought it, based on location plays. Could not take back my vote since I became an owner.

I don’t like the current system but I think if you release a consumer product unfinished it deserves to be reviewed as such.

Think a better way, would be they would have to write at least XXX characters on why they rated a game a certain way. This would get rid of a lot of jaded votes. Not sure how they would filter out if someone just wrote aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
If you gave the game a 10, why is the game perfect in every way... they must write an additional XXX characters.
if a game is a 1, why is this game such a POS...they must write an additional XXX characters.

It'd be better if it had at least 100 votes to show up in the rankings, 15 seems to be way to low. what happens is 15 of the people who bought it first give it 10's, that pisses people off who have games they think should be rated higher, so they give it 1's. If it waited till it was around 50 or 100 votes then that would allow a less biased community to judge the game since it hasn't been posted higher or lower then another game.

I'm aware that there is a filter, but who uses that?

Personally, I don't really care. I have games all over the list and some that aren't even on it. It more entertaining then anything else.

Yeah, the top 100 the way it is is really depressing.

I mean I've been losing so much sleep over it these dark circles around my eyes may never go away.

The top 100 is fake. Everybody rates machines they own higher, to increase their value. If people have expensive machines, they even take the time to give bad marks to other machines. I would not be surprised if the people running the site have agreements with pinball manufacturers in order to push new titles up the rankings.

If it’s any consolation, only use the ratings that were added/edited in the last 6months and TWD is ranked higher than TNA.
Interestingly, the list doesn’t change a whole lot in general though. I thoI’ll got the top couple would change, but MM and AFM are still 1 and 2. Actually they are like 1-5 because it separates out the different models

Games that are ranked the most times are usually the best.

Nothing's perfect. It is what is I use it as an guideline
I enjoy reading the comments. Especially games I own because can agree and disagree easily.

This is a great idea and makes sense in so many ways and would help reduce the issues below.

Games come out with unfinished code and bugs
Many buyers want to pump and dump games

I think they should have a grace period as you mentioned of 4 months. Feedback and ratings under grace period will show up under preliminary and only count during the grace period. Once the grace period is up, a thread announcement should happen and ratings start at that point, preliminary ratings would still be readable, just wouldn't count. Ratings will be little more in line with reality and reflect a complete game, not hype or bugs. Manufactures can view ratings to get an idea of issues and are incentivized to complete games within 4 months

Way too many troll ratings by DBs

How about requiring people to reaffirm their ratings every 2 yrs or they drop off?

Especially the non comment ratings

It’s just a popularity contest, not the electoral college.

Maybe add a filter checkbox selection where you chose from the following options:

- show raw ratings data (default)
- ignore ratings of 1.0s and 10s
- ignore ratings older than 2 years old
- ignore new machines under 6 months from release

This would make most people happy.

This won’t work. People will just rate games as 9.9 to of 10

A popularity contest between coin operated machines and the people these machines own.