(Topic ID: 211362)

I think the top 100 should be revamped!


By imagamejunky

1 year ago



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  • 186 posts
  • 93 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by pipes
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 185 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
    #1 1 year ago

    Not trying to start some heated discussion about which pin is better here..

    In my opinion there should be some kind of “probationary” period before a game can be listed on the top 100. To me it’s ridiculous that a brand new game that has only been out for a minute (example- TNA) could some how be ranked higher than a fantastic game with a few years on the market (example- TWD). Come on!!??

    How about this... the ratings are saved in a database and then once the game has reached 6 months or 1 year THEN the ratings are approved for the top 100?
    Or maybe require a minimum number of ratings before it’s posted?

    Junky

    #2 1 year ago

    I am pretty sure Twd had to climb quite a bit to get that high in the rankings. It probably started really high, then settled in fairly quickly where it belonged. Over time, the game was improved, and it climbed up to where it is now. Tna has been out long enough to have fallen if it was terrible. I have never played it, but see posts about it being good regularly. That is probably a pretty accurate rank for it right now.

    55
    #3 1 year ago

    It’s better if you just don’t look at the top 100.

    -2
    #4 1 year ago

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    #5 1 year ago

    Well games like TNA, Houdini, Big Lebowski don’t even have 100 ratings and they’re beating out great games that have hundreds or over 1000 ratings. Houdini only has 20! Seems skewed to me.

    #6 1 year ago

    Who cares about the rankings? Seriously. It doesn't do anything or amount to anything.

    -7
    #7 1 year ago

    I think it matters to some. Some people consider the ratings when figuring value.

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from imagamejunky:

    Not trying to start some heated discussion about which pin is better here..
    In my opinion there should be some kind of “probationary” period before a game can be listed on the top 100. To me it’s ridiculous that a brand new game that has only been out for a minute (example- TNA) could some how be ranked higher than a fantastic game with a few years on the market (example- TWD). Come on!!??
    How about this... the ratings are saved in a database and then once the game has reached 6 months or 1 year THEN the ratings are approved for the top 100?
    Or maybe require a minimum number of ratings before it’s posted?
    Junky

    Maybe the people that rated TNA higher then TWD actually think it's better. Seems like you are just bitter and don't want anything you own bumped down a spot.

    The reviews of new games are important to many as it can be valuable info on how the game is being received and if it is something someone may want to purchase or seek out to play. Overtime the fluff and hate reviews all balance out so it doesn't matter.

    16
    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from imagamejunky:

    I think it matters to some. Some people consider the ratings when figuring value.

    I don't know one single collector in my area that cares about the rankings at all, even when selling. Market sets the price, not some arbitrary number.

    #10 1 year ago

    FYI, Jersey Jack used the rankings of their games as a talking point during this year's Expo.

    So, yeah, it's a kinda a big deal.

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    Maybe the people that rated TNA higher then TWD actually think it's better. Seems like you are just bitter and don't want anything you own bumped down a spot.
    The reviews of new games are important to many as it can be valuable info on how the game is being received and if it is something someone may want to purchase or seek out to play. Overtime the fluff and hate reviews all balance out so it doesn't matter.

    Not bitter. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
    Good conversation point I think.

    #12 1 year ago

    Yeah, ratings are a pretty big deal in my opinion too. I agree there should be a thing like # number of ratings till shown on the top 100. Some people might not find it a big deal but it does matter to some people.

    20
    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from dirtbag66:

    FYI, Jersey Jack used the rankings of their games as a talking point during this year's Expo.
    So, yeah, it's a kinda a big deal.

    You can't possibly rate every game you own as perfect 10 then act like the ratings are valid or that they are a big deal.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    You can't possibly rate every game you own as perfect 10 then act like the ratings are valid or that they are a big deal.

    Don’t forget to mention that he has given other games a rating of 1 lol.

    I think party zone was the worst game I’ve rated. I’d have to look honestly. I think I gave it a 6.5 lol. No game is a 1

    EDIT: I actually rated gorgar as the worst game. I gave it a hair over 6

    14
    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from jmountjoy111:

    Don’t forget to mention that he has given other games a rating of 1 lol.
    I think party zone was the worst game I’ve rated. I’d have to look honestly. I think I gave it a 6.5 lol. No game is a 1

    If someone thinks a game is a 1 I'm fine with that. But when your entire collection is a perfect 10 you are not being realistic with the ratings anyway so it's bizzare to me that someone like that would complain about them. Imagamejunkie and dirtbag66 own 6 games, all perfect 10's. Couldn't be improved in a single way.

    #16 1 year ago

    While I personally disagree with some of the rankings in the Pinside Top 100, and I don't let them control my personal opinions of games, I nevertheless agree that Pinside's formula for calculating the rankings is overly simplistic and would benefit from some rethinking to try to smooth out the effects of the "new game" phenomenon and to prevent outlier ratings from skewing the aggregate rating unfairly.

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from jmountjoy111:

    Don’t forget to mention that he has given other games a rating of 1 lol.
    I think party zone was the worst game I’ve rated. I’d have to look honestly. I think I gave it a 6.5 lol. No game is a 1

    My ratings are skewed like that, too. No Perfect 10s, and no 1s.

    Games will settle out over time: as more people play the games, the more varied the rating numbers will be.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from spiroagnew:

    My ratings are skewed like that, too. No Perfect 10s, and no 1s.
    Games will settle out over time: as more people play the games, the more varied the rating numbers will be.

    I think I rated medieval madness a 10. I have never owned it and don’t have it on my wishlist cause I can’t afford it so it’s not realistic for me to put it on there lol but it is the one game I think is just perfect. Of course everything is personal opinion but I still think all pinball is fun at the end of the day. I do not like party zone at all. But if it was the only game I had I’d play the crap out of it. I can’t go to 1 on anything. Opinion of course.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from dirtbag66:

    FYI, Jersey Jack used the rankings of their games as a talking point during this year's Expo.
    So, yeah, it's a kinda a big deal.

    Anything for the almighty dollar.....

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    If someone thinks a game is a 1 I'm fine with that. But when your entire collection is a perfect 10 you are not being realistic with the ratings anyway so it's bizzare to me that someone like that would complain about them. Imagamejunkie and dirtbag66 own 6 games, all perfect 10's. Couldn't be improved in a single way.

    I don't think you got my point.
    So let's say 10 people rate a new game that's only been out for 1 week at a perfect 10. Should that game now be number 1? Above AFM and MM?
    And I don't see how I personally rate games as a relevant point here. If I feel certain games are a 10, well that's my opinion. That's what ratings are. Opinions. And my perfect 10 vote is just ONE vote.

    Seems like I ruffled some feathers here. Not my intent

    #21 1 year ago

    If I were to modify the rankings one suggestion I would make...

    Separate them by era.

    We have the em top 100 and then the top 100. How about the ss top 100 or the alphanumeric top 100 or the dmd top 100? I personally don’t like early solid state games. Tons of people do though. I’d like to see the rankings without those and I’m sure others would like to see them without dmd games.

    16
    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from imagamejunky:

    Not bitter. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
    Good conversation point I think.

    It would be a conversation point worth some merit if these were not your collection and ratings, lol.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/imagamejunky/collection
    https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/imagamejunky/ratings

    serious LOL!

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from imagamejunky:

    I don't think you got my point.
    So let's say 10 people rate a new game that's only been out for 1 week at a perfect 10. Should that game now be number 1? Above AFM and MM?
    And I don't see how I personally rate games as a relevant point here. If I feel certain games are a 10, well that's my opinion. That's what ratings are. Opinions. And my perfect 10 vote is just ONE vote.
    Seems like I ruffled some feathers here. Not my intent

    I get it. I’m not sure how to fix it other than wait for the game to settle. I thought raise the number of approved ratings from 15 to something else but some games are so rare it take years to get 15 rankings so I’d hate to raise the number limit.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from imagamejunky:

    I don't think you got my point.
    So let's say 10 people rate a new game that's only been out for 1 week at a perfect 10. Should that game now be number 1? Above AFM and MM?
    And I don't see how I personally rate games as a relevant point here. If I feel certain games are a 10, well that's my opinion. That's what ratings are. Opinions. And my perfect 10 vote is just ONE vote.
    Seems like I ruffled some feathers here. Not my intent

    No feathers ruffled at all. I don't think you are getting the irony though. You are jobbing the ratings by inflating the scores on whatever games you own. So it's not like anything about the ratings are valid. The ratings of new games settle out over time. Why does it matter if a new game is rated higher then AFM or MM? If it's not better it will work itself out over time.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    It would be a conversation point worth some merit if these were not your collection and ratings, lol.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/imagamejunky/collection
    https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/imagamejunky/ratings
    serious LOL!

    LMAO! I got to admit. That is pretty bad.

    #26 1 year ago

    You can use the Custom tab under the Top 100 and select early SS, or whatever date range you want. You can even change the list to only include games with over 100 rankings.

    Quoted from jmountjoy111:

    If I were to modify the rankings one suggestion I would make...
    Separate them by era.
    We have the em top 100 and then the top 100. How about the ss top 100 or the alphanumeric top 100 or the dmd top 100? I personally don’t like early solid state games. Tons of people do though. I’d like to see the rankings without those and I’m sure others would like to see them without dmd games.

    -3
    #27 1 year ago

    I see your point jgentry. And I rate games how I feel. Whether I own(ed) them or not. If I LOVE a game, I give it a 10. But once again. My vote is just ONE vote, so it doesn't hold much weight when 1000 other people vote differently.

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from imagamejunky:

    To me it’s ridiculous that a brand new game that has only been out for a minute (example- TNA)

    just some devils advocate here >>>curious how long you want a probationary period?

    TNA started delivering in Sept of 2017; 6 full months ago and 80 games out the door of which many are on route and prominent collections where seriously thousands of people have played it now.

    Prior to that a whitewood was at numerous shows and loved by many people; hence why it even went to production.

    I mean... just come out and say that you are more concerned with Pinside ratings because you want to protect the value of your collection hence you rate your collection all 10s, and dont like that some of your collection does not rated higher so it will be worth more.

    If you want a probationary period then probably only right to ask the same for incomplete code games...

    this is all laughable and honestly the silliest of all the "fix the ratings" threads that come up every so often.

    #29 1 year ago

    "just some devils advocate here >>>curious how long you want a probationary period?"

    Not sure

    "I mean... just come out and say that you are more concerned with Pinside ratings because you want to protect the value of your collection hence you rate your collection all 10s, and dont like that some of your collection does not rated higher so it will be worth more."

    That's 100% inaccurate

    "If you want a probationary period then probably only right to ask the same for incomplete code games..."

    I agree

    "this is all laughable and honestly the silliest of all the "fix the ratings" threads that come up every so often."

    I'm glad I made you laugh. Pinball is supposed to be fun

    #30 1 year ago

    I think you can get the list you're looking for OP. In the Custom tab, you can set things so that only games with 100 ratings will be displayed. Though I think TNA is getting pretty close to 100 ratings, last I check it had 97. Unfortunately, many honest reviews have been flagged. TNA seems to have more flagging going on then any other game.

    #31 1 year ago

    It’s just a list, man. The balanced reviews and my friends’ opinions mean 100 times more to me than those rankings. I could make a killer collection out of games that aren’t on the top 100. Many wise people have.

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    It’s just a list, man. The balanced reviews and my friends’ opinions mean 100 times more to me than those rankings. I could make a killer collection out of games that aren’t on the top 100. Many wise people have.

    A lot of the games I truly love aren't in the top 100. I'm ok with that.

    #33 1 year ago

    7C509B6B-B932-45B9-9FCF-ED959E570FCF (resized).jpeg

    15
    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from imagamejunky:

    In my opinion there should be some kind of “probationary” period before a game can be listed on the top 100. To me it’s ridiculous that a brand new game that has only been out for a minute (example- TNA) could some how be ranked higher than a fantastic game with a few years on the market (example- TWD). Come on!!??

    I’m not trying to pick a fight here but I’d argue that if you only give games you like a 10 that’s WAY worse than the bump a new game gets. The rating system allows someone to rate a game in 16 categories!!!

    You’re telling me that rating a perfect 5 in 16 catagories makes any sense? That is completely gaming the rating system to skew your favorites higher.

    Whether you meant to or not, you are skewing the ratings with a bunch of perfect 10s.

    -1
    #35 1 year ago

    When someone rates a game and that number happens to be a 10 then what’s the problem with that? I have no problem with this as long as it’s your honest opinion. If a 10 makes a game worth more in resale then maybe I should have rated Millionaire a 10 before I sold it.

    #36 1 year ago

    The rating itself is not the important point.
    The comments, why someone rates like this or that is for me an indicator about the "character" of a pin and if it fits to my view of "a pin with alot of fun to play".
    When i read these points in other comments too, i see a validation and it helps for my next choose a bit.
    So, if you hide the ratings, you hide the comments.
    For me would it not be helpful.

    #37 1 year ago

    I personally enjoy the ranking. I check it every Monday to see what‘s changed. Sure it‘s wierd to see a new game suddenly appear in the top 10 or even at No. 1, but it also intrigues me how in the ensuing weeks it drops down. It seems to work itself out. And sure it‘s irksome that my favorite games aren‘t ranked higher. But it‘s fun to ponder and discuss why that is. I also enjoy reading the comments. And sure I‘d like to have a few more knobs to adjust on the customized rankings - like not counting ratings without a comment, or not counting ratings above x or below y. Like Pinside, the rankings are good fun.

    #38 1 year ago

    I tried the custom rankings and I still couldn't get the rankings I wanted for my collection.

    #39 1 year ago

    I might just rate every game the op has a 1 to balance out his 10. As he says It's just one vote right?

    #40 1 year ago

    I really don’t care. I learned the hard way that others opinions on pinball machines is useless. Just because a bunch of people on here love STTNG doesn’t mean you or your family will want to play the crap out of it. You have to love the game too, unless you only buy games you think will have good resale. That being said, it would be easy for Pinside to implement a minimum vote number prior to being put in the top 100. Similar to a minimum number of at bats before counting your batting average in baseball. That way one “10” rating doesn’t put you at number 1.

    On the other side of the argument, if you look at IPDB top 100. No other game can crack the top 10 because there are tens of thousands of votes. A new game, no matter how good, will never catch up. This is why ratings systems are so flawed. It’s near impossible to rate “the best of all time” of anything.

    #41 1 year ago

    It all corrects itself in the long run. Heck, for a few years when there were little to no other choices just about every new Stern release was hitting top three within a week of its release before dropping well out a couple of weeks later. Even with owning and playing all three extensively, I will readily admit that having a title like B:TDK edging out AFM and TZ even for a couple of weeks is just absurd and not to be given serious consideration.

    The only people that rankings negatively affects are those who are easily influenced in their purchasing decisions by short term hype.

    #42 1 year ago

    I'd be interested to see a critic top 100. Honestly I don't trust the opinion of 80% of the pinball community because their regular game play is on machines that are less than 10 years old. And you have dopes that give 10s to every game they own or like.

    I'd also say you have to service the games to get a true sense of their value and ranking.

    11
    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from sulli10:

    LMAO! I got to admit. That is pretty bad.

    Lol, OP is the last guy that should have started this thread.

    GB and SW are a 10?.....OP, you’re part of the reason why the rankings are complete BS.

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from dsuperbee:

    Who cares about the rankings? Seriously. It doesn't do anything or amount to anything.

    Quoted from GreenMachine19:

    I really don’t care. I learned the hard way that others opinions on pinball machines is useless.

    Quoted from davideokills:

    Honestly I don't trust the opinion of 80% of the pinball community because their regular game play is on machines that are less than 10 years old. And you have dopes that give 10s to every game they own or like.

    You know what I hate more? All those "which game should I buy between these and these..." shitty threads...

    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    You know what I hate more? All those "which game should I buy between these and these..." shitty threads...

    LOL, the three most started threads on Pinside;
    a) the pricing of pins is too expensive and I’m not paying it
    b) the rankings are complete BS and I ignore them
    c) which one of these expensive highly-ranked pins should I buy?

    #46 1 year ago

    When I was a kid my friends dad was chosen to be 1 of 6 judges for our local diving competition. After every dive the judges would raise their cards. Diver one's scores 5,6,6,5,5, and a 10. Next diver 6,6,7,6,7 and a 10. The crowd Gasped! Diver three 5,4,4,5,4, and you guessed it...a perfect 10. I had never seen so many people laugh their asses off in all my life. Every dive a 10. Luckily by the 6th diver they brought out the cane and saved him from further embrassing himself and his family and from ruining the futures of those young divers lives. Some people just shouldn't count in the world of judgement. Toss the 10's, this is ludicrous.

    #47 1 year ago

    When I first got into pinball, I did use the top 100 to make a list of games I was interested in buying. If a game was on Pinball Arcade (virtual) and in the top 100, that was a double bonus. Now, I could care less about the top 100. Experience outweighs the list every time. Absent of that experience, the list is at least something. That being said, lots of collectors use it to pump their own collections. I have seen multiple owners threads that ask the owners to submit ratings. But when you think about it, maybe the purchase of the game was because they loved it so much.

    #48 1 year ago

    I rate the top 100 a 1

    -1
    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from BudManPinFan:

    LOL, the three most started threads on Pinside;
    a) the pricing of pins is too expensive and I’m not paying it
    b) the rankings are complete BS and I ignore them
    c) which one of these expensive highly-ranked pins should I buy?

    And what about those "best of" threads:
    1) "pin1 vs pin2";
    2) "which are the best ( put a number) games from a period or from a manufacturer..."

    #50 1 year ago

    Here’s how it works.
    1) a new game comes out --> hype boys and early buyers rate it a 10. (They want their new game to be the best)
    2) everyone sees a new game jump up the ranking without many reviews, so they rate it a 1, knee jerk reaction, even if they haven’t played it. (Why should some unknown new game be better then their old classic pin)
    3) more people play the game over the next year or two and they begin to give it proper railings. (Usually rating it lower then what’s in their collection, after all my games are the best).
    4) the game receives new code, gets improved, but no one adjusts their original score. (Once rated is good enough)

    Rating games on a 1 - 10 metric is a horrible idea because it’s to simple to give a game a 10 just cause.

    I propose a new “over, under” metric with an algorithm in the background that totals the results. Compare two games and choose what one is better. That way it would be impossible for one person to rate multiple games as a perfect 10. It would force people to choose what game is better and worse. You would also not have multiple games rated all as 1.

    Just scrap the entire top 100 list and run a campaign for a month or two, to have people re-rate any game that they played.

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