The Mandalorian (Pro)
Stern, 2021Hello all,
New comer here. Somehow i have it in my brain that i can build a Mandolorian(ish) pin from the ground up. Up to and including things like creating custom PCB's, Hand wound coils, controllers, etc.
Now, i do have a degree in electronics engineering (haven't used it in 30 years though), i have a 3d printer, laser cutter, various electronics testing equipment, etc.
So now i ask the elders.... Can you guide me and keep from the common pitfalls?
Thanks
-Grumpy
Quoted from grumpyeguy:Up to and including things like creating custom PCB's, Hand wound coils, controllers, etc.
You can also fell a tree and mill the wood yourself for the cabinet!
Quoted from EricHadley:Would be A LOT cheaper to just buy a Mandalorian from Stern.
It's not really about saving money. It's more about the satisfaction that would come from building it.
Quoted from grumpyeguy:It's not really about saving money. It's more about the satisfaction that would come from building it.
Ah, well go for it then. Me, I’d rather play pinball than spend all the time winding coils and stuff.
You sound like you do not currently own a pinball machine. I would first get an older game and just clean it, you need to know what goes into a pinball machine
I would then build a virtual machine, Visual Pinball, Future Pinball, ate both great free programs that enable you to shape a playfield and program some rules
If you want a challenge building something look for posts about people building Star Gazers and Quicksilvers. They buy another classic Stern solid state pin (78-84), buy a reproduction playfield, backglass and wiring harness. Source the missing playfield mechanisms, repaint the cabinet, etc.
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:What’s your real account name? You don’t just join and say your gonna build from scratch. Sus.
Lol sorry, that's exactly what happened. I've been kicking this idea around for years (since i was in college for electronics engineering). 1992. T2 had me amazed and sparked the interest.
I started doing some research recently and saw the virtual machines as PopBumberPete mentioned, downloaded and installed it, but it didnt have the same feel. Admittedly it was on my PC and not in a cabinet, but without the flashing lights, the rumbles of bumpers, and all the things that make a pinball machine a pinball machine.
I see that you can add those components to make it more real, but at that point, why not just build the real deal.
But i do see the appeal to the virtual ones. You can more easily change the play-field if you get bored of the game. It's just that something about a monitor as the play-field just feels wrong. Maybe i should find someone who has one built and try that before i cast judgement.
At this point it's looking like a consensus, yes i have lost my mind. 
the benefit of making this virtual (at first) is ease of which you can make modifications
you have to do so much work, just to get a game with working flippers, if you decide to move a pop bumper a little to the left on a real game, you have to start again
Quoted from PopBumperPete:the benefit of making this virtual (at first) is ease of which you can make modifications
Ok, let me ask this, have you guys played on a virtual with all the bells and whistles? Does it compete with a traditional?
Quoted from grumpyeguy:Ok, let me ask this, have you guys played on a virtual with all the bells and whistles? Does it compete with a traditional?
no, and i am not suggesting that
you build a house, you make a plan. you want a circuit board, you need to draw it out first. you want a cabinet, you will need to take measurements
building a virtual game is free , tweeking the game takes minutes, not hours
you asked for the pitfalls to be pointed out, I am suggesting ways to avoid wasting money
sure, once you have made a virtual game, you can then make it out of wood, all the shots will be lined up, and you will have given the project a lot of thought
PopBumperPete sorry, I completely mis understood what you were suggesting. That makes sense now. Thanks
If there is anything the community has learned about pinball manufacturing in recent years, it's that "pinball is hard".
Quoted from finman2000:If there is anything the community has learned about pinball manufacturing in recent years, it's that "pinball is hard".
Yes, you can spend $60 million, try to do it yourself and end up in bankruptcy, sued by the SEC, and indicted by the Feds. EZ PZ.
Quoted from grumpyeguy:Hello all,
New comer here. Somehow i have it in my brain that i can build a Mandolorian(ish) pin from the ground up. Up to and including things like creating custom PCB's, Hand wound coils, controllers, etc.
Now, i do have a degree in electronics engineering (haven't used it in 30 years though), i have a 3d printer, laser cutter, various electronics testing equipment, etc.
So now i ask the elders.... Can you guide me and keep from the common pitfalls?
Thanks
-Grumpy
JPOP can be your mentor. He'll come over and help you put the game together after lots of Starbucks and trips to Michaels for foamcore and hot glue.
Homebrew is a lot of work but it’s fun and rewarding. Use pinballlife for parts. Watch pinballmayhem YouTube channel. Read the homebrew threads. P3 or Fast boards. MPF or skeleton game.
What sclpunk said. Do not wind your own coils or make your own controller boards. Sure you could do it, but if you really want to scratch build a game you want to make it easy on yourself I’m some respects. It’s a huge undertaking if you’re wanting to do a modern style pin. There is a great reason why pin companies have teams of people doing each title with specific focuses.
If you don’t already own pins and aren’t familiar with all the parts and hardware I’d really start there. Try a restore first maybe. Most people underestimate the work involved, myself included.. as I enter year #4 And have more years to go. I thought it would be a lot less time. If I hadn’t owned and restored a few pins beforehand I would have been in over my head
Making a virtual pinball is a different thing. i have one with nudging and analog plunger and a big enough screen. no coils etc. i love my virtual pinball but it is just not the same than a real one.
and building a real machine is a whole different experience as well. understanding and making all the mechs work is the cool stuff you don't have with a virtual pin.
With a virtual pin you will have most of the tinkering on the software side. getting it all to work on the correct monitor etc..
There’s already a lot that goes into building and trying to finish a game. Why make the easy things, like buying off the shelf coils and pinball controllers, difficult? There’s plenty to keep you busy…
Quoted from grumpyeguy:It's not really about saving money. It's more about the satisfaction that would come from building it.
I like the cut of your jib. It’s not going to be easy, but it can be done. Not everyone can build a house or a car, but if you have the right skill set and tools, then it absolutely can be done. I’ve done a complete rebuild of an F-14 game when I first got into pinball, and I’ve also build a full size virtual pin from scratch. IMHO, you will learn more from working on a real machine then you will from virtual pin. With that said, the geometry layout for the shots is incredibly precise and you could waste a lot of wood to get it just perfect. I’d suggest a mandolorian playfield from stern if you can, that would be a great starting point. As mentioned you can get the electronic controller boards from 3rd party makers and speed up your build immensely, but if you want to design your own pcb’s then there’s nothing stopping you.
This will get expensive real fast. Back to my build a house analogy, it’s easier to build a house and buy a furnace for it, then to build your own furnace.
I built a Seawitch from scratch starting with nothing but a beat playfield and backglass. Since then it has turned into a multi-game platform that will be able to run any Bally or Stern standard playfield from 1977 to 1986.
It is a blend of Bally, Stern and Data East parts.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/seawitch-from-scratch-allentown-edition
After I'm done with the list of playfields I'm working on I'd like to take a crack at my own homebrew with the whole mess being run with a -35 MPU with custom rules via Nano plug in module and Dick Hamill Bally/Stern OS.
Best wishes on your pinball journey! This is a great forum for help and guidance.
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Try to be as forward thinking as possible. There are plenty of variables in building a machine and just like with our own personal health, the most important are "lifestyle."
Lifestyle in making a pin from scratch = planning, sourcing and allocation of various parts from different vendors (you won't find everything you need from just one place), organization, and leaning into friends when you run into a road block.
I highly recommend Fusion360, AutoCAD, Eagle and Netfabb. Mission Pinball Framework is open source and well documented. FAST boards are on the pricier side but have some excellent feature sets I consider worth it.
Make a pin in virtual pinball or future pinball software (it does help)... just know real life physics will be much different and there will be plenty of changes made to the whitewood to get it to shoot properly.
Online resources like Mission Pinball and Pinballmakers have plenty of Fusion360, SOLIDWORKS, and DXF files for common parts.
Calculate your needs for wire. I underestimated and need to wait when I was making excellent progress. Wirebot.xyz has 18 and 22 awg in solid and striped (in a rainbow of colors).
Get coreldraw or similar to, at the very least, make masking guides and keylines for the artwork.
Looking forward to seeing what you do.
gdonovan I just took a walk through your thread. Yup.. That is plenty to keep a person busy. There are good lessons there. (nice choice in solder btw)
Everyone else, thanks for the feedback. I was under the misguided assumption that i could just do something like a playfield overlay and all the shotwork, bumper placement, etc would be done already and all i would have to do is route/drill the wood to match. I now agree it's probably not worth doing it all from scratch. (though i may still do parts from scratch here and there just so i know i can do them, or have a back up)
The reality is that you'll never do it. Please use my skepticism to encourage you to get it done and prove me wrong.
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:The reality is that you'll never do it. Please use my skepticism to encourage you to get it done and prove me wrong.
I mean......this is my current fuel to get my butt moving back on my Voltron project........that and the fact that a GZ Premium costs like 9k. Wife told me to buy the GZ over trying to pick the project back up. Literally told me I *won't* do it. 
If I'm going to spend 9k either way.......might as well go towards something that will benefit me in other areas too, as the skills I need to pick up to do Voltron would.
Quoted from Mbecker:It wasn’t clear to me — are you wanting to create a stern mando from scratch or your own design mando or your own design ‘similar to’ mando??
I suppose my own design with the major elements from the original
This originally started as me wanting to do T2 or adams family, until i saw the mando.
I know there are overlays for t2, and i figured that would give me the playfield layout, i have yet to find them for the mandolorian. So if i want this, it looks like im going to have to do the design myself. Which i admit is probably above my head. The wiring, troubleshooting, programming, etc i think i will be fine (not to say that i wont need some help though).
I'll probably start acquainting myself with the vpin table design tools tonight.
Is there a relatively easy way to get the table design into something like fusion360?
Quoted from grumpyeguy:I suppose my own design with the major elements from the original
This originally started as me wanting to do T2 or adams family, until i saw the mando.
I know there are overlays for t2, and i figured that would give me the playfield layout, i have yet to find them for the mandolorian. So if i want this, it looks like im going to have to do the design myself. ?
you are not going to find an overlay for The Mandalorian
Overlays are a in a copyright grey area, you can make an overlay for playfields that have completely lost their art, due to age
i do not think there are overlays for any game built in the last 20 years
Thanks PopBumperPete That explains it. I worked for Mattel for a while, so i have a minor understanding of IP infringement/theft.
Since you have a mix match of manufacturers in your game, are there gotchas to watch out for? For instance Stern uses X voltage while bally uses Y which means 2 different voltage power supplies, or one game controller uses 3.3v logic which would call for level shifting.... Things like that.
If you want to move forward, you need to look at what is available for the hobbyist today rather than 30yo tech
I think that people are using Arduino to run their games
You may wish decide how far you wish to go with certain features and then platform choices will fall into place.
If planning on a fairly simple game, the Bally/Stern "platform" is well known and sound can be as easy as a wav file or mp3 player.
Looking for a complex game, there are several robust aftermarket choices but with the associated price tags.
Quoted from grumpyeguy:Thanks PopBumperPete That explains it. I worked for Mattel for a while, so i have a minor understanding of IP infringement/theft.
If building for your personal use, not really an issue. Planning on selling a few copies? Expect the C&D letters to fly.
Take a look at the homebrew section of pinball life. You’ll probably either end up with a 48 or 70v high voltage for coils off a psu and a separate 12/5v one for logic and other odds and ends. Yes you can do something simpler with arduinos, relays, etc.. but if you’re shooting for a modern complex pin I still would push you hard towards fast or multimorphic boards— and then join the associated slack channel. Coding is way way easier with MPF unless you’ve got a solid python skillset. There’s an active forum for mpf as well. That said - it’s not exactly a cakewalk.
I understand your desire. For years, I thought of designing my own game. I have all the tools from restoring a car and building wood/shed projects. I did research the options. I found I was over my head for quite a while. I would recommend as others here have to rebuild a project pin first. That will educate you on the electronics involved vs the mechanical parts. I chose a theme I could relate to and also find a relatively inexpensive model. I would avoid EM machines, they look prehistoric under the hood. I went with a Bally/Williams WPC machine. The aftermarket industry sells lots of parts that you won't want to spend your time making, unless you are a machinist with associated tools. You can buy blank boards from DumbAss and build them yourself, by sourcing the necessary electronic components and soldering them all on, following a schematic. Yes buy a manual with the WPC or whatever schematic or download one from IPDB. Know there are known mistakes in the manuals. Building your own wiring harness is another treat (actually 3 or 4 harnesses). Wiring and Building connectors with a Molex tool and pins is a fun time to kill weeks of fun.
Just for an exercise, download the parts list from a known game. Then log onto Marcos Specialties for the same game. Addams Family for example. Then start totaling the costs of all the parts you need. Then find out than many parts are one offs and not stocked. Then go on Ebay and try and find that elusive part. Then Google the part # and find it in Australia or Argentina or Germany or UK. That is what I have been doing, price is not in the equation anymore.
I have decided to out source the cabinet and back box to Virtual Pin. Cheaper and quicker, but will buy the plain wood version, that is already cut to the right size, instead of re-inventing the wheel.
It is a fun journey though.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Winding your own coils would like making your own nails to build a house.
I chatted with a guy at the NW pinball show a few years back who made his own automated coil winding machine, as well as making the 'spools' for the coils. He had the machine at the show and was making some as I watched and chatted. It was seriously impressive and cool.
If you have the inclination, skill and time to do any of the things that are needed to build a pinball machine go for it for those things. If you want to learn new things as well this is a great medium to do so. I've learned a lot and had a lot of fun doing the homebrews I have (and currently working on) even though I have yet to 'finish' any of them.
To the original post: give it a try. Things take time. If you enjoy the process more than the result, its 100% worth diving into anything. Even if you don't finish it, you might have fun working and learning. I built an entire game 100% from scratch with 0 off the shelf parts / electronics. Massive timesink of endless nights for a couple years. Depends what your goal is? Pinball designer? DIY-er? Or you just don't want to drop $8000 on Baby Yoda?
If you’re really passionate about a home brew then go for it. I’d definitely recommend digging through all the home brew threads here and on the forums for the specific controllers and software like mpf.
It’s going to be a long process that involves multiple disciplines and it won’t be cheap. But if that is the type of challenge you’re looking a home brew will deliver it.
Here is a link with lots of information. That really helped me on how to get started.
https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
like others wrote, it is definitly a hard thing to do, and there are cheaper hobbies out there, but it is very rewarding. so if you like tinkering, go for it.
Quoted from RyanStl:Mikey not likey, then
Mikey like Mando! Mikey no likely DIY Mandoy like pinbally
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