(Topic ID: 82462)

I think I just ruined my clearcoat UPDATED :)


By flashinstinct

5 years ago



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  • 43 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by flashinstinct
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

So I was doing my second coat of clear after my first one. Mid throught the second pass my gun clogged up for 2 seconds and spattered a gizzilion dime size air pockets in the clear. Needless to say I think I have a shitload of sanding to do but is there a way I can sand down without going too far and secondly is there some other adjustment I can make so that the gun doesn't clog up? bigger needle maybe? Should I use higher grit to bring down the clear?

I am really bummed out.

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#2 5 years ago

If you are using a conventional set up, ie a gun and air compressor. Most times when a gun spits, the air pressure dropped to low or you have the hair feed on the gun too low. The gun needs pressure to force enough air through the fluid cap to atomize the material. Spitting can also be caused by material viscosity. Too thick, it will be hard to atomize the material. I'm assuming you are using a catalyzed product? If so, be sure you're not working past its pot life where its starting to cure. Conventional guns are tricky, too much air, not enough product you get sugaring. Too much product, not enough air the product won't atomize properly and will spit.

#3 5 years ago

I'm using a turbine 3 stage. So air is continous. Maybe opeh up to valve more at the tip of the gun. Can these be fixed anyways?

#4 5 years ago

Strain the mixed clear when loading in cup?

#5 5 years ago

Yes, that's why you have an air regulator at the gun. You should have a fluid valve too. Strike a balance between air and fluid. Some material data sheets will give suggested air settings.

#6 5 years ago

Also, test for a bit on a sheet of cardboad before the real thing.

#7 5 years ago

Of course I can't see it from here, but it looks like it could be dried clear trash that shot out.

When you are done with a batch of clear, are you running a cup of Lacquer Thinner through the gun, then cleaning the neck joint with a brush?

How much material was left in the cup when this happened?

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Quoted from flashinstinct:

is there a way I can sand down without going too far

Since the trash looks like it's clear material, just block sand to make it flat, open any air bubbles with an Xacto tip and shoot again.

You can even fill air bubbles with an eye dropper before you shoot.

#8 5 years ago

Dang - I feel for you. Keep us posted how it works out.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Since the trash looks like it's clear material, just block sand to make it flat, open any air bubbles with an Xacto tip and shoot again.

I run a full 400cc of lacquer throught the gun at the end take off the nozzle tip off, the needle and unscrew the tip, I ran a brush throught the opening.

I did however mix the clear in the same cup as the old clear. Didn't think much of it. There was dry clear in the bottom.... could that have something to do with it?

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I did however mix the clear in the same cup as the old clear. Didn't think much of it. There was dry clear in the bottom.... could that have something to do with it?

Only if you didnt strain the clear when you were putting it in the gun. Sand it smooth and it should be ok

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

There was dry clear in the bottom.... could that have something to do with it?

Yep, that will do it.

The 'heat' of the new clear will often lift thin dried sections from the mixing cup.

Buy disposable plastic cups from the paint dealer, or clean your cup COMPLETELY every time.

Don't just use *any* plastic cup you have lying around. Many plastics will react with the clear.

#12 5 years ago

You could use 500/600 grit to knock it down level depending on how heavy your original coats were and then reclear it again with 2/3 coats..... Good luck...I paint cars everyday for a living and clearing is always the nerve raking part

#14 5 years ago

We'll those are two things I've just learned not to re-do. Now onto the elbow grease tomorrow to try and fix this thing.

#15 5 years ago

I wouldn't call that ruined. You did however make more work for yourself. Use a nib block, and carefully sand and you should be OK.

#16 5 years ago

for mixing I use cheap $1 glass measuring cups. Mix it up,and use lacquer to clean up the glass cup with the gun. works like a charm and lacquer thinner doesn't effect the printed measuring graphics. I'm fairly amazed that a $1 measuring cup can have the printing hold up like it does. It's been 9 years, and none of the art is missing.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from LEE:

I wouldn't call that ruined. You did however make more work for yourself. Use a nib block, and carefully sand and you should be OK.

I've done a serach on the internet for nib block and not getting one hit in canada....???? Could you find that at Lowes or Home Depot?

#18 5 years ago

Use a sanding block with 600 grit. Won't take long to level it out.

#19 5 years ago

You should be able to get a nib block from where you bought your clear (or any auto body supply shop).

#20 5 years ago

The good news is....after 3 hours of sanding 80% of the marks are gone. Bad news...still about anohter 2 hours of sanding to get it all out.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yep, that will do it.
The 'heat' of the new clear will often lift thin dried sections from the mixing cup.
Buy disposable plastic cups from the paint dealer, or clean your cup COMPLETELY every time.
Don't just use *any* plastic cup you have lying around. Many plastics will react with the clear.

That is a great tip. I learned this the hard way too. You have to use the mixing cup that is sold at the clear coating body shop. They don't react.

I do think this is material in his clear. I threw away a gun that had this problem. Was learning that generous amount of Lacquer thinning needs to be used in the cleaning process and pre process to not have material feed into the clear.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

for mixing I use cheap $1 glass measuring cups. Mix it up,and use lacquer to clean up the glass cup with the gun. works like a charm and lacquer thinner doesn't effect the printed measuring graphics. I'm fairly amazed that a $1 measuring cup can have the printing hold up like it does. It's been 9 years, and none of the art is missing.

I don't take this chance anymore. I pitch the cup. Yes you can clean it but why risk it on a potentially 500-1500 dollar playfield ? Plus the Lacquer thinner probably cost 12-25 cents to clean it and time. It is already close to 1 dollar.

#23 5 years ago

how would you risk a playfield? Everything is fixable. You use your cup on your gun over and over. If you can clean that good, why can't you clean a glass measuring cup worth a shit? in 9 years never had it be a problem.

3 hours of sanding? what the hell grit are you using? Should be using 400 grit. With a block, should take you 30 min total and then you should be ready for the next layer.

#24 5 years ago

I was told to use 600.....is 400 too harsh? Hell, if I can use 400 it will save me a lot of time and elbow pain.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

how would you risk a playfield? Everything is fixable. You use your cup on your gun over and over. If you can clean that good, why can't you clean a glass measuring cup worth a shit? in 9 years never had it be a problem.
3 hours of sanding? what the hell grit are you using? Should be using 400 grit. With a block, should take you 30 min total and then you should be ready for the next layer.

Neo,
Relax alittle. We are talking about a couple of dollars and a plastic cup. I am talking about the mixing cup, the plastic one the body shops give me when I buy clear to mix in. I don't keep them and clean them. For 1 they are free with clear but for 2: I would not risk clear drying in there flaking off and ending up in the next mix. That is all.

The crap when on the side of anything is very hard to see especially little spots that are dry.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I was told to use 600.....is 400 too harsh? Hell, if I can use 400 it will save me a lot of time and elbow pain.

I am no expert yet but I would say no as long as you are going to put another layer on. I use 320 between layers and have never had a problem.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

Neo,
Relax alittle. We are talking about a couple of dollars and a plastic cup. I am talking about the mixing cup, the plastic one the body shops give me when I buy clear to mix in. I don't keep them and clean them. For 1 they are free with clear but for 2: I would not risk clear drying in there flaking off and ending up in the next mix. That is all.
The crap when on the side of anything is very hard to see especially little spots that are dry.

I wasn't being agressive in my statement. I just use words like shit and ass and colorful accent words. I wasn't angry or anything.

#28 5 years ago

Clear is very sticky, make shure the tip is clean, I always over clean my guns, I would stick with 600 change paper when it clogs.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from crlush:

Clear is very sticky, make shure the tip is clean, I always over clean my guns, I would stick with 600 change paper when it clogs.

thanks for the advice

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I wasn't being agressive in my statement. I just use words like shit and ass and colorful accent words. I wasn't angry or anything.

All good Neo. I get it....

#31 5 years ago

Flash, thanks for posting! I want to clear my own pf's and your posts of the experience help a noob out. Hope you get your clear fixed. Post updates

#32 5 years ago

Remember to strain your material, Its cheap insurance.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Remember to strain your material, Its cheap insurance.

Oh believe me by the time the next batch of clear goes in my gun it will be triple distilled. Gonna finner than the best vodka out there LOL. I'm still going to be very nervous applying the next coat. I just for additional insurance, I'm going to run 600cc of lacquer thinner through the gun before I shoot.

On a side note, does anyone know which mask to us when spraying.... I got a P100 mask but can still smell the fumes, I added a p95 mask over each cartridge which is better but I can still smell the stuff. It's not good for the lungs so I just wanted to know what you guys use.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

just for additional insurance, I'm going to run 600cc of lacquer thinner through the gun before I shoot.

Blow out (dust gun/blow tip) all fluid passages of that before loading with clear.

Quoted from flashinstinct:

does anyone know which mask to use when spraying...

Go to your local auto paint supplier and get the proper size/fitment and the type of paint approved for what your spraying. Most likely 3M, SAS or Norton should be what they carry.
The paint/clear Msd sheets should recommend what minimum specs. it should be. (respirator approved for material)

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I just wanted to know what you guys use.

Not cheap but(beats dying from isocyanates) what i use for big refinish jobs. amazon.com link »

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

On a side note, does anyone know which mask to us when spraying.... I got a P100 mask but can still smell the fumes, I added a p95 mask over each cartridge which is better but I can still smell the stuff. It's not good for the lungs so I just wanted to know what you guys use.

Isn't P100 just the type of respirator cartridge rather than an indicator of what protection it will give?
What you need will depend on the type of clear you are shooting. Check manufacturers recommendation.

You're right, it definitely isn't good for the lungs.

Andy

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

On a side note, does anyone know which mask to us when spraying.... I got a P100 mask but can still smell the fumes, I added a p95 mask over each cartridge which is better but I can still smell the stuff.

Pin-It is spot on! Supplied air is the best way to go with clears, they are mostly a super-glue aerosol. Deadly is no exaggeration. Just make sure your system pulls in air from a clean location far from your spray work. Will pay for itself ((someday -- maybe)) with the lack of consumables.

For short duration tasks most folks use the lesser protective twin canister half face mask then add eye and skin protection.

Respirator filters have a P,R,N letter designation indicating the filtering material resistance to oil mist; P is proof = totally resistant. R is less so and N is not. The numbers represent levels of filtration 100 is the old HEPA standard of 99.97% @ 0.3 microns. The numbers 99 and 95 are indicative of 99% and 95%.

Filters reduce particulates and mists but do not stop fumes, vapors and gasses. To reduce these you need a cartridge. As opposed to a filter which mechanically stops the particles a cartridge has materials (usually activated charcoal) that bond with the contaminant. Different cartridges for different fumes/gasses. For organic vapor solvents the cartridge is usually marked OV and color coded black or yellow (also reduces acid gasses). To extend the use of OV cartridges esp. during spray operations a "P" pre-filter can be used in front of the OV. For painting a P95 pre is good but with clears a P99 or P100 pre is advisable if made for your mask. Use brand specific. Another choice is the Combo cartridge (typically magenta/yellow) which puts a P100 in front of a OV as a single unit -- but a bit more money but way less than lungs.

OV's have a life span dependent upon how much crap they pull out of the air passing through -- way more than just the solvent in use if other volatile material is in the shop (gas cans, wd40,crud cutter). When not in use take them off the mask and store the OV in a ziplock, consider a new one after four to eight hours of use or when you notice any warning properties (smell, taste, etc.). Store the mask in a separate ziplock.

The product SDS (aka the old MSDS) should give cartridge recommendations. Most folk use the terms filters and cartridge interchangeably, including some manufactures.

#38 5 years ago

i'd use 600-1000 grit before you respray?

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

On a side note, does anyone know which mask to us when spraying.... I got a P100 mask but can still smell the fumes, I added a p95 mask over each cartridge which is better but I can still smell the stuff. It's not good for the lungs so I just wanted to know what you guys use.

Masks don't really work, because the cartridges in them only last 6 hours or so when they are exposed to the air. To really be protected you really need a suit with air supplied to it. I did the cartridge thing at first too, and if you can smell it, your breathing it.

Was all fun and games until I passed out in the shower one morning and had a mini seizure. Then it was time to invest in real equipment. You can't half ass it when working with auto clears. If you don't have the right equipment to protect your eyes and lungs, you will kill yourself in a very short period of time. Vapors stick to anything wet like a magnet. So your eyes and lung walls, pull it in like a tractor beam on the death star.

3 weeks later
#40 5 years ago

Well after a few days here and there throughout the month I've managed to fix all the problems that plague my playfield. It came with tough lessons learned and sore elbow muscles.....note to self...

Here are the lessons learned
1. When applying frisket to the playfield....make sure you mask enough of it and tape around all the edges of the wax tape (I had acrylic paint seep through an opening that wasn't even .5 inches and it sprayed black all over the playfield under the wax sheet and onto newly laid acrylic...needlesss to say that I had to repaint that section.)

2. Get a good exacto knife with a good grip so you can achieve nice curves and be more precise...The cheap once cut no problem but they are a bitch to handle and reek havoc on your wrist tendons...

3. GET A GOOD Respirator. Smelling lacquer thinner fumes is not a good thing.

4. Take your time. I found that when spraying my clearcoat I was sweeping too fast which in turn caused some pencil poin canvities here and there. Slow and steddy is the way to go.

5. DO NOT USE THE SAME CUP TO MIX YOUR CLEAR. Or if you are using the same cup...make sure it glass and that it is ultra clean. To be sure run your mix through a sifter.

6. Don't wait to long before you sand (do it after 24 hours). Clearcoat becomes incredibly hard after 2 weeks = more elbow grease to sand down the problems.

7. Add a small dab of dishsoap to the water when you wet sand...makes it alot easier.

8. Enjoy your hard work and reassemble your playfield.

Anyword of wisdom, I'm about to paint the cabinet???

Note: the stuff inside the putting green area is actual clear that I have to cut out. It's real thick.

#41 5 years ago

That looks great! Nice Job. I am going to look at a NGG this weekend. If I get it I will have to do some repair to the playfield before I clear coat it. There is some damage under the slam ramp and to the trap ready insert on the left side (half is missing). Did you have to repair anything on yours before you clear coated it? I haven't been able to find any of the inserts online yet. Do you or anyone else know a source for the inserts?

#42 5 years ago

That came out great! These tips and your problems have actually become really helpful for others wanting to tackle a clear job. I've always wanted to tackle this, but obviously hesitant. Fantastic tips here!

Thank you!

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from ita47:

That looks great! Nice Job. I am going to look at a NGG this weekend. If I get it I will have to do some repair to the playfield before I clear coat it. There is some damage under the slam ramp and to the trap ready insert on the left side (half is missing). Did you have to repair anything on yours before you clear coated it? I haven't been able to find any of the inserts online yet. Do you or anyone else know a source for the inserts?

I tried forever to find insert decals...and they don't exist. You can however create your own. Their is a thread on here that talks about how to do it but I can't remember where it is.

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