(Topic ID: 262725)

I should not have done it.


By Markim

5 months ago



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  • 170 posts
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  • Latest reply 56 days ago by pinzrfun
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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There are 170 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
#1 5 months ago

I bought a 1975 Bally Miss Universe Bingo at a auction un-tested. Darn these things are heavy. Anyways, got it in the basement and powered it up. Lights up and balls play but that was about it. It came with a can of contact cleaner so I let her have it. Probably the wrong thing to do because it now does not respond to the coin switch and it always has the tilt light lit. Can anyone help me with what the machine do when powered up? Does the tilt light not supposed to be on right after power up. I have taken a look at the tilt and bobber switches and the appear to be open. Thanks Mark

21
#2 5 months ago

Yes, they are very heavy.

Sorry, no technical input here. I just wanted to agree that they are very heavy.

27
#3 5 months ago

Contact cleaner is a great way to start a fire in an EM.

15
#4 5 months ago

If hosing down the entire game with contact cleaner didn't work, I don't know what will!!!

Maybe topping it off with a few cans of WD-40?

#5 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

It came with a can of contact cleaner so I let her have it. Probably the wrong thing to do...

Read this warning here about using contact cleaner in EM games:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#lube

That was NOT a good first move.

There are some Bingo gurus on here that can walk you through how to get things going again but I am not one of them. All I can say guessing is what gets people hurt or worse!

#6 5 months ago
Quoted from Gotemwill:

Read this warning here about using contact cleaner in EM games:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#lube
That was NOT a good first move.
There are some Bingo gurus on here that can walk you through how to get things going again but I am not one of them. All I can say guessing is what gets people hurt or worse!

Yeah.... but it came with it.

#7 5 months ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Yeah.... but it came with it.

Ha! I did have an old man proudly offer me a can of contact cleaner with a game I hauled out of his basement. I told him thanks I have plenty at home already.

#8 5 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Ha! I did have an old man proudly offer me a can of contact cleaner with a game I hauled out of his basement. I told him thanks I have plenty at home already.

Good answer!

#9 5 months ago

I don't know what could be; at least appearance wise, worse than this. But... it apparently had no ill effects, and is what these guys normally do!

#10 5 months ago

Looking for a pioneer. Anyone ever tried HVAC coil cleaner? It’ll definitely get rid of the nicotine stains, dust and dirt.

#11 5 months ago

Put games on the Bingo counter and see if it will play. Maybe the coin switch is messed up.
If it powers up............. use this link to help you T/S the bingo.
Go to 'how things work" to explain how the Bingo works.
Then others should be able to help you.
http://bingo.cdyn.com/

#12 5 months ago

Vic Camp knows a lot and is or was, the best player in the USA. He is on Pinside

#13 5 months ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

Yes, they are very heavy.
Sorry, no technical input here. I just wanted to agree that they are very heavy.

That's funny...

Bingos... ugh... I know some techs who won't even work on them they are such a bear.

#14 5 months ago
Quoted from Budman:

Vic Camp knows a lot and is or was, the best player in the USA. He is on Pinside

The bingo triumvirate: Vic Camp, Jeffrey Lawton, and Nick Baldridge. Honorable mention to Dennis Dodel. Of course Bingo Butch and his son Mike, as well.

#15 5 months ago

I freely admit messing up with the contact cleaner. Normally read up a bit on such things. Well, not going to use it again. I did not have power applied when spraying and waited hours to turn it back on to mitigate any fire risk. I just went and reseated all the head unit to play field connectors and now I am not seeing a tilt after power up. I press the coin switch and hear a noise in the head unit but nothing else happens. None of the line or reset switches work when pressed and the credit counter is zero. No play ball is lifted.

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#16 5 months ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

Put games on the Bingo counter and see if it will play. Maybe the coin switch is messed up.
If it powers up............. use this link to help you T/S the bingo.
Go to 'how things work" to explain how the Bingo works.
Then others should be able to help you.
http://bingo.cdyn.com/

Thanks how would I add games?

#17 5 months ago

Manually add games to the Credit counter.

#18 5 months ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

Manually add games to the Credit counter.

How do you do that. I have not worked on these before.
Thanks Mark

#19 5 months ago

Looking at the Replay Meter from the back of the machine locate the coil on the right-if memory serves me right (It is mounted facing down) and push the plunger up to add credits. If the game had been just powered on it should immediately run the credit(s) back off. Locate the Anti-Cheat relay and push the armature down. The coil hold circuit should then lock the coil in. Then go back and add credits as described.

#20 5 months ago

Manually actuate the plunger to step it up to put credits on the counter.
I never use the coin slot to play games, but that's just me.
See photo...... @ Red arrow.

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#21 5 months ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

Manually actuate the plunger to step it up to put credits on the counter.
I never use the coin slot to play games, but that's just me.
See photo...... @ Red arrow.[quoted image]

So I tried press the plunger and I must have a mechanical problem as the metal step gear which rotates the counters seems locked in place. Also when I pressed the coin switch the coin counter would rotate one position for every coin entered which it no longer is doing.

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#22 5 months ago

BINGO = HEAVY

#23 5 months ago

Can you activate the plunger with the game powered off?

#24 5 months ago
Quoted from 29REO:

Can you activate the plunger with the game powered off?

No I tried. Not sure what is holding it from turning.

#25 5 months ago

Have you tried manually activating the start relay to bypass the normal process to get it going and see if that will get anything running? It's the third switch from the top of the bank of four on the right side of the head, just a bit higher than the replay register.

#26 5 months ago

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#27 5 months ago

Beautiful looking machine. I hadn't worked on a bingo yet but got some great info from "Clay's guide" with pinball machines.

He has a couple videos with an introduction to the assemblies inside.
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#empartsvideo

different kinds of stepper units
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#emsteppersvideo

I would imagine they will all need some attention

I would guess possibly the credit counter (step-up step down stepper) is at maximum & there is a decrement plunger you can operate

#28 5 months ago

I would guess possibly the credit counter (step-up step down stepper) is at maximum & there is a decrement plunger you can operate
..........................................
The picture in post #15 shows the Counter at 0000.
You can move the counter both Up and Down. Maybe you are moving it in the wrong direction!
Just a thought.

#29 5 months ago

If the coil on the right doesn't increment the counter, try the coil on the left.
Miss Universe is a bit unusual - it's the only production bingo that is 3 balls, and the only production game with 18 holes.

Basic startup - there is an anti-cheat relay in the head that pulls when the start relay is actuated. Start relay should actuate when the coin switch is pressed. If the start relay is pulling, but the anti-cheat relay does not pull (tilt remains lit) then the replay reset relay is locked on. The replay reset relay and the start relay should both power the 120V motors in the head (mixer at the top of the back door and control unit in the middle of the head bottom).

If those motors are not turning when the start relay is actuated and the replay reset is not locked on (or if it is and the motors are not turning), then you have either a connection problem for your 120V line at the jones plugs or you have dirty switches. Yes, despite the contact cleaner. Perhaps the cleaner allowed crud to flow into the switches in question, causing more of a problem.

Now that I've seen this I'll be checking in. I'm always heartened to see the bingo folks post in threads regarding fixing games, especially for new folks. I'm sure we'll all have you up and running soon. Best advice: be patient, lots to learn.

#30 5 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If hosing down the entire game with contact cleaner didn't work, I don't know what will!!!
Maybe topping it off with a few cans of WD-40?

Just go with cans of whipped cream

#31 5 months ago

WoW......... lots of 'Negative comments" .

#32 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

So I tried press the plunger and I must have a mechanical problem as the metal step gear which rotates the counters seems locked in place. Also when I pressed the coin switch the coin counter would rotate one position for every coin entered which it no longer is doing.[quoted image][quoted image]

So I removed the credit counter assembly and it was gummed up and would not turn. Used some alcohol to clean it up a bit and some dry lubricant and it is now working. I added some credits but I don’t have a ball to shoot probably because of the tilt light is on. I can pull out on the tilt contacts and a ball will be delivered but tilt is still lit so the game does not play. I have looked at all the tilt switches and the are open. Any ideas?

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#33 5 months ago

Yes, please check your anti-cheat and start relays. Those switches govern most of the startup logic. The anti-cheat makes the tilt lite illuminate even if the game is not physically tilted.

#34 5 months ago

And if you haven't seen this site, please check it out: http://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally/miss_universe/

It contains all of the paperwork (manual and schematics) for the game, which should make troubleshooting much, much easier. Thanks to baldtwit for his tireless efforts to provide this info to us all.

#35 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

So I removed the credit counter assembly and it was gummed up and would not turn. Used some alcohol to clean it up a bit and some dry lubricant and it is now working. I added some credits but I don’t have a ball to shoot probably because of the tilt light is on. I can pull out on the tilt contacts and a ball will be delivered but tilt is still lit so the game does not play. I have looked at all the tilt switches and the are open. Any ideas?[quoted image][quoted image]

There could be some tilt switches you aren't aware of. Check the back of the head, check the coin door, check the bottom of the cabinet. To make it even more confusing, some of these, like the one on the bottom of the cabinet, will be normally closed, not open. Most will be normally open though.

Sounds like you are making a little progress, which is a shock to me!! I can't imagine taking on a bingo as my first EM project - you sir are a bold individual!

#36 5 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

If the coil on the right doesn't increment the counter, try the coil on the left.
Miss Universe is a bit unusual - it's the only production bingo that is 3 balls, and the only production game with 18 holes.
Basic startup - there is an anti-cheat relay in the head that pulls when the start relay is actuated. Start relay should actuate when the coin switch is pressed. If the start relay is pulling, but the anti-cheat relay does not pull (tilt remains lit) then the replay reset relay is locked on. The replay reset relay and the start relay should both power the 120V motors in the head (mixer at the top of the back door and control unit in the middle of the head bottom).
If those motors are not turning when the start relay is actuated and the replay reset is not locked on (or if it is and the motors are not turning), then you have either a connection problem for your 120V line at the jones plugs or you have dirty switches. Yes, despite the contact cleaner. Perhaps the cleaner allowed crud to flow into the switches in question, causing more of a problem.
Now that I've seen this I'll be checking in. I'm always heartened to see the bingo folks post in threads regarding fixing games, especially for new folks. I'm sure we'll all have you up and running soon. Best advice: be patient, lots to learn.

Thanks for the additional information. I fixed the credit counter problem with cleaning and lubrication. So this I where I am. I am a complete newbie on this btw.

Machine off
Manually add credits via plunger
Turn on machine.
Lights up and credits get removed from counter and tilt light is lit. No motor or further relay noise at this point
Press the coin switch and hear clicking noises but no ball is delivered to shoot. Tilt still on.

I can get a ball delivered if I putt the tilt contacts in the head towards me. Shoot the ball and ball will fall in hole and nothing else happens.
Thanks

#37 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

Thanks for the additional information. I fixed the credit counter problem with cleaning and lubrication. So this I where I am. I am a complete newbie on this btw.
Machine off
Manually add credits via plunger
Turn on machine.
Lights up and credits get removed from counter and tilt light is lit. No motor or further relay noise at this point
Press the coin switch and hear clicking noises but no ball is delivered to shoot. Tilt still on.
I can get a ball delivered if I putt the tilt contacts in the head towards me. Shoot the ball and ball will fall in hole and nothing else happens.
Thanks

its a bingo, shouldn't there be like 15 balls in there?

Are all the required balls in the machine?

#38 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

Thanks for the additional information. I fixed the credit counter problem with cleaning and lubrication. So this I where I am. I am a complete newbie on this btw.
Machine off
Manually add credits via plunger
Turn on machine.
Lights up and credits get removed from counter and tilt light is lit. No motor or further relay noise at this point
Press the coin switch and hear clicking noises but no ball is delivered to shoot. Tilt still on.
I can get a ball delivered if I putt the tilt contacts in the head towards me. Shoot the ball and ball will fall in hole and nothing else happens.
Thanks

Also, when turned on;
Anti cheat relay pulls down when the coin switch is activated. I think it is the same as manually activating the Start coil. Motor turn for a bit and then shut off.

#39 5 months ago

There should only be three balls installed.

Some EM bingos have 8. Some solid state games have 10 or more. But Miss universe has 3.

Anti-cheat and start pulling are good signs. The motors turning also good.

The tilt relay is dropping out. I'm guessing you are holding the coin switch for more than a fraction of a second? There are anti cheat capabilities in the coin circuitry to prevent coins on strings or slugs welded to rods.

Try strumming a bit faster or just push start relay manually (it should do the same thing) and observe. If tilt trips then you may have something plugged in incorrectly, tilt Bob set improperly, etc.

#40 5 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There could be some tilt switches you aren't aware of. Check the back of the head, check the coin door, check the bottom of the cabinet. To make it even more confusing, some of these, like the one on the bottom of the cabinet, will be normally closed, not open. Most will be normally open though.
Sounds like you are making a little progress, which is a shock to me!! I can't imagine taking on a bingo as my first EM project - you sir are a bold individual!

Thanks, I will check Tilt switches again. My wife bought this at an auction because she thought it looked “fun”. So now I have it in my basement I might as well try to fix it. Like most things- keeps swinging the bat and eventually you may get a home run.

#41 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

I have looked at all the tilt switches and the are open.

I'm not a bingo guy, but on the Bally EM pins, the tilt switch on the coin door needs to be closed for the game to start. bingopodcast, did the bingos work the same way?

#42 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

Thanks, I will check Tilt switches again. My wife bought this at an auction because she thought it looked “fun”. So now I have it in my basement I might as well try to fix it. Like most things- keeps swinging the bat and eventually you may get a home run.

There is a lot to learn with these Bingos. Take your time; after you fix one, you will be looking for another one
or two. I know........I have 12 of them!
Enjoy the 'learning process".

#43 5 months ago

And congratulations for getting this far! Bingos are not easy machines to work on, but I applaud your courage in tackling this!

#44 5 months ago

A word of caution about contact cleaner. Not only can it catch fire, but you can make a bomb out of it as well. Years ago, an idiot where I worked sprayed contact cleaner in an electrical panel. Closed the panel, threw the knife switch, and promptly blew the door about 40 feet across the warehouse. He was very lucky he was not standing in front of the panel when he threw the switch.

#45 5 months ago

Ah, just checked the paperwork - I forgot this game had a kumbackey. It's a keyhole mounted on the left side of the cabinet. There is a switch stack that actuates as the lock turns. That thing is super annoying and likes to get out of whack easily (since you are intended to hit it with a lock cam).

Examine those switches -carefully-. Look on the schematic at C-12.

Almost every game I work on with a kumbackey - that little unit needs attention. Interesting idea - if the bar couldn't or wasn't able to pay out a customer, they would make an IOU and upon the customer's return, they'd use the key to rack up X games on the game before turning them loose. In practice, I think most of the keys to those units were 'lost'. I've run across a few that still had them, though!

#46 5 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

There should only be three balls installed.
Some EM bingos have 8. Some solid state games have 10 or more. But Miss universe has 3.
Anti-cheat and start pulling are good signs. The motors turning also good.
The tilt relay is dropping out. I'm guessing you are holding the coin switch for more than a fraction of a second? There are anti cheat capabilities in the coin circuitry to prevent coins on strings or slugs welded to rods.
Try strumming a bit faster or just push start relay manually (it should do the same thing) and observe. If tilt trips then you may have something plugged in incorrectly, tilt Bob set improperly, etc.

Thanks again. Yes it has 3 balls in the game. I tried to operating the coin switch as you said and using the start relay. The tilt light remains on. Once a game is tilted what clears the tilt normally? The bank of contacts on the left side of the door appears to have a motor attached to it that would spin. I have never seen this move.

#47 5 months ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

There is a lot to learn with these Bingos. Take your time; after you fix one, you will be looking for another one
or two. I know........I have 12 of them!
Enjoy the 'learning process".

Thanks, at this point I think one Bingo will do me. I think....

#48 5 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There could be some tilt switches you aren't aware of. Check the back of the head, check the coin door, check the bottom of the cabinet. To make it even more confusing, some of these, like the one on the bottom of the cabinet, will be normally closed, not open. Most will be normally open though.
Sounds like you are making a little progress, which is a shock to me!! I can't imagine taking on a bingo as my first EM project - you sir are a bold individual!

All the ones I have found looks to be sitting open. The plum bob is not touching.

#49 5 months ago
Quoted from Markim:

The bank of contacts on the left side of the door appears to have a motor attached to it that would spin. I have never seen this move.

This happens when the shutter (the board that traps the balls) is open. There is also a switch down at the bottom of the motor that, when lifted, will force the motor to spin (runout switch). You can try lifting this to make sure 50V goes to the motor.

Your 50V fuse is working, so I'd check the kumbackey switches myself.

Anyway, you can see the motor on the schematic at A-11. There are only a handful of switches in the path. If your shutter motor did not / does not move or is stuck closed, try manually opening it, then try again.

#50 5 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

This happens when the shutter (the board that traps the balls) is open. There is also a switch down at the bottom of the motor that, when lifted, will force the motor to spin (runout switch). You can try lifting this to make sure 50V goes to the motor.
Your 50V fuse is working, so I'd check the kumbackey switches myself.
Anyway, you can see the motor on the schematic at A-11. There are only a handful of switches in the path. If your shutter motor did not / does not move or is stuck closed, try manually opening it, then try again.

When I manually hit the start relay the shutter in the playboard does open allowing the balls to drop from the play area. The trip bank motor that is on the left side of the back door does not spin the shaft that goes to all those trip bank blade switches. The motor armature will spin and lift when the start relay is activated but will not spin the plastic shaft. I cannot manually spin the shaft. I think the motor transmission is locked. Anyone seen this one before and can recommend a fix. I’m guessing that this assembly should spin totally around when a coin is inserted.
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