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(Topic ID: 217326)

*2nd problem*I screwed up my AC DC premium


By Strummy

2 years ago



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  • 52 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Strummy
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    drive (resized).PNG
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    There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    So today I decided to clean the inside of the lower Playfield window. Like a dumbass I disconnected the connectors on the lower playfield with the game on. Something must have touched and now the cannon is in like a search mode all the time and some of the lighting is not working correctly. Any thoughts? Thanks

    #2 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    So today I decided to clean the inside of the lower Playfield window. Like a dumbass I disconnected the connectors on the lower playfield with the game on. Something must have touched and now the cannon is in like a search mode all the time and some of the lighting is not working correctly. Any thoughts? Thanks

    Not sure if there is a home switch for the cannon, but if there is check it. Lights not working at all? Fuse blown?

    #3 2 years ago

    Most lights are working but some are not flashing. I don't think there is a home switch for the Canon but I am not sure.

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    Most lights are working but some are not flashing. I don't think there is a home switch for the Canon but I am not sure.

    Which ones aren’t working... Inserts, flashers? You likely blew a fuse.

    Is the cannon just moving back and forth? It likely thinks there is a ball in it, check the switch.

    #5 2 years ago

    I did check the fuses and they all seem to be okay. I have a coin taker backbox lighting kit in it and I also have the total Rock concert mod in it. Both only seem to be working partially

    The back box kit is not flashing and attract mode nor is the total Rock concert mod

    #6 2 years ago

    try isolating the problems further. you need to know exactly what is not functioning on both your mods and lights then you can continue to work through it like a flow chart.
    thanks
    Blake

    - does the backbox kit have any power to it?
    - are there any errors showing for the cannon? will it recognize a ball if loaded? im assuming there is a test for both controlling the cannon, firing, and switch test?

    #7 2 years ago

    I have a pro and assume the setup is the same for the cannon - has two switches at least one is an optic (had to replace a few times) also the game has a cannon test option and will show you the switches getting activated so you might be able to narrow the issue down that way

    #8 2 years ago

    Canon switches are not registering. The cannon doesn't know where it is during gameplay or test mode. Some of the flashers are working on the back box kit. Some of the Flasher seem to be working on the total Rock concert mod. Both mods seem to be tied into the games flashers . Is it possible that I blew a transistor near j6. Because when I pull the j6 connector off of the board the Canon stops working and the flashers stop working. So it seems like all of my problems seem to be coming from that location

    #9 2 years ago

    thats good so you have isolated that part. now pull and test or just replace.
    thanks
    Blake

    #10 2 years ago

    also check the opto for registering as well.
    thanks
    Blake

    #11 2 years ago

    Which part are you thinking? I can fix mechanical stuff pretty easily but when it comes to electronics I'm an idiot

    I do have a multimeter but I'm not sure how to test transistors

    #12 2 years ago

    Did you take each fuse out and test with a meter, or did you just do a visual test?

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from ralphwiggum:

    Did you take each fuse out and test with a meter, or did you just do a visual test?

    this would be the first step to take..do that and report back your findings and we will then move on to the transistor

    #14 2 years ago

    So even if all the little red lights on the board are on and the fuses appear to be okay that doesn't mean that they are okay all the time? I will pull them all and check them. Much thanks for all the help guys

    #15 2 years ago

    All fuses pulled in checked

    1526783950132440905797 (resized).jpg

    #16 2 years ago

    I don't think that a loose connector will have exposed contacts that could short on some metal piece.
    Usually the male part is shrouded and the female part poses no risk.

    My guess is you knocked something loose when cleaning.
    Do the mods work by using the little alligator clips to attach to a flasher?
    are they knocked loose?

    Did a cable to the cannon become disconnected ?

    #17 2 years ago

    Something appeared to have touched and shorted. I am 99% sure. Because when I unplugged something from the mini Playfield it fell and touched something in the Canon started to move. I was just doing a switch test and the opto and cannon mechanical switches do not appear to be working

    #18 2 years ago

    honestly if you have the board out and a new transistor handy i would just put in a new one. you can learn how to test them with your mm from youtube vids at anytime. but the end result will be the same amount of work. and yes on your board its easy to tell if fuses are good with the LED display.
    thanks
    Blake

    #19 2 years ago

    The flashers are working in test mode. So would a bad transistor cause both Cannon opto and mechanical switches not to work?

    I'm still not sure which transistor would cause this. I assume it is near j6.

    #20 2 years ago

    Ok...So here's where I stand. I friend suggested that I may have shorted a chip for switch matrix on mpu. I checked for all dead switches. I found these are dead:

    Right ramp switch
    Right orbit switch
    No mini playfield switches work at all
    Cannon opto and mechanical both don't work
    Cannon fire switch not working

    #21 2 years ago

    Is it possible a wire just broke free and everything daisy chained to it isn’t working?

    I would think a short would blow a fuse.

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    Ok...So here's where I stand. I friend suggested that I may have shorted a chip for switch matrix on mpu. I checked for all dead switches. I found these are dead:
    Right ramp switch
    Right orbit switch
    No mini playfield switches work at all
    Cannon opto and mechanical both don't work
    Cannon fire switch not working

    Your drive 4 is out (J1, pin5), and return 11 (J12, pin 7). Pretty sure you have pulled a wire somewhere along the line. Check the green drive wire that runs between all these switches..
    drive (resized).PNG
    And the tan return wires from these ones..
    return (resized).PNG

    #23 2 years ago

    I hate to even think about this ........ but I knew someone else this has happened to on a ACDC Prem. Same exact way. Fried multiple chips on several boards and around 30/40 SMT LEDS.

    He had a buddy local that repaired surface mount stuff and it still took him a month of back and forth and $$$ to straighten the game out. It was extremely frustrating.

    Sorry to hear man. Hopefully not the same situation.

    #24 2 years ago

    I cannot find any wires disconnected. I did test all the LEDs RGB. That all works fine. So it appears that that row is the issue Time Bandit. But if it is not a pulled wire is it a chip or something?

    #25 2 years ago

    how old is the premium? you can call chas at stern and tell him the issue. stern is very helpful when it comes to diagnostic on their machines. give it a shot.

    #26 2 years ago

    Yeah Chaz has been helpful to me in the past. Of course I'm the type of person that wants this thing fixed yesterday! I do appreciate the input that I have gotten on this issue. I am glad that it is isolated to an area now

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    I cannot find any wires disconnected. I did test all the LEDs RGB. That all works fine. So it appears that that row is the issue Time Bandit. But if it is not a pulled wire is it a chip or something?

    See if you have 3V at J1, Pin5. Red probe on the pin, black on ground anywhere.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    See if you have 3V at J1, Pin5. Red probe on the pin, black on ground anywhere.

    This is what I got

    20180520_190441 (resized).jpg

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    This is what I got

    Well I'm pretty sure you're getting a strobing signal from there. The switch drive pulses between 0-4ish volts, so on average you get a percentage of that. On a scope it looks like this..
    503C0CE5-8BF8-4A80-985C-619DC8DE6702 (resized).jpeg
    In this range though, the difference between 2.65V and 3.1V(which is what I get on a working machine) is significant, so there could be a chip problem, but you would need a scope to be sure. The difference may be in our meters.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Well I'm pretty sure you're getting a strobing signal from there. The switch drive pulses between 0-4ish volts, so on average you get a percentage of that. On a scope it looks like this..

    In this range though, the difference between 2.65V and 3.1V(which is what I get on a working machine) is significant, so there could be a chip problem, but you would need a scope to be sure. The difference may be in our meters.

    Interesting. A few people have said that it may be a chip problem. But what does that exactly mean?

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    Interesting. A few people have said that it may be a chip problem. But what does that exactly mean?

    I'm not sure on all the ways a chip problem will manifest. I always thought if it was dead it was dead and you'd get nothing. That's how most things fail. I would think you wouldn't get a strobe signal at all.

    You should probably check all your switch diodes as well. Occam's razor and all that..

    #32 2 years ago

    I spoke to Chaz. He said that transistor Q4 is likely to be my issue

    #33 2 years ago

    I'm not STERN expert,but know well Williams/Bally/DE/SEGA.

    After little investigation from the manual you have Q4 at J1(Switch Columns) for the switch matrix which is 2N3904 and after that go to U1(74LV273).
    2N3904 can be test easy-with DMM

    Connect the multimeter’s positive probe to the transistor’s base lead(middle leg). Connect the negative probe to the transistor’s one time at to left leg after that to right leg.
    After this connect red probe to left black to right.
    And after that red probe to the right leg and red to the left leg.

    You must not have values under .4 or full short .0
    If you have under .4 your transistor is bad and you are lucky.It's cheap and easy for replace.
    To be sure on 100% you can compare the values with the other transistors in switch columns-from Q1 to Q8.They are same and muse have same values
    If not then may be U1 is bad.

    Also trace the connections from J1(5 pin) to U1(9 pin).And from J1(5 pin) to the and of the wire whatever it end under playfield.May be to have broken wire somehow.
    This can be do again with DMM.Get both probes no matter which one ant touch them on each of the begin/and trace.If you have connection you must hear "beep" or .001 or .002 lie values.

    Do this on shut off machine.

    1 week later
    #34 2 years ago

    Q4 was not bad.

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from arakissun:

    I'm not STERN expert,but know well Williams/Bally/DE/SEGA.
    After little investigation from the manual you have Q4 at J1(Switch Columns) for the switch matrix which is 2N3904 and after that go to U1(74LV273).
    2N3904 can be test easy-with DMM
    Connect the multimeter’s positive probe to the transistor’s base lead(middle leg). Connect the negative probe to the transistor’s one time at to left leg after that to right leg.
    After this connect red probe to left black to right.
    And after that red probe to the right leg and red to the left leg.
    You must not have values under .4 or full short .0
    If you have under .4 your transistor is bad and you are lucky.It's cheap and easy for replace.
    To be sure on 100% you can compare the values with the other transistors in switch columns-from Q1 to Q8.They are same and muse have same values
    If not then may be U1 is bad.
    Also trace the connections from J1(5 pin) to U1(9 pin).And from J1(5 pin) to the and of the wire whatever it end under playfield.May be to have broken wire somehow.
    This can be do again with DMM.Get both probes no matter which one ant touch them on each of the begin/and trace.If you have connection you must hear "beep" or .001 or .002 lie values.
    Do this on shut off machine.

    Thank you for this but I'm lost. I'm best with th mechanical aspect of machines.

    #36 2 years ago

    So if Q4 is not bad then U1 must be next suspect.
    Or trace/s between Q4 and U1.Check all possible traces from the connector to U1.

    #37 2 years ago

    Way more simple than either the op or most others are suggesting! Op seems to be more impatient than me(Did not think that was possible, but apparently is), slow down and closely inspect the area where you were working and you will find the problem. You very well might have done additional stuff after the fact, because you started panicking right out of the gate and when you have a sky is falling mentality, more bungles follow.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Way more simple than either the op or most others are suggesting! Op seems to be more impatient than me(Did not think that was possible, but apparently is), slow down and closely inspect the area where you were working and you will find the problem. You very well might have done additional stuff after the fact, because you started panicking right out of the gate and when you have a sky is falling mentality, more bungles follow.

    I wish it was that easy! I have inspected, inspected and reinspected. I can't find anything

    #39 2 years ago

    so the two limit switches for the cannon are ok? like lermods suggested
    I know it's the same setup for the xmen iceman ramp and the crossbow on TWD.

    the disk moves till it hits the cherry switch then it moves back till it hits the other cherry switch. Guess that's what's happening, but the other switch isn't closing.

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from heme:

    so the two limit switches for the cannon are ok?

    No. The cannon doesn't know where it is. Everything is out as depicted in post 14

    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    No. The cannon doesn't know where it is. Everything is out as depicted in post 14

    did you do a continuity check btwn the backbox on the J1 green/ yellow wire and the various switches they are connected to?

    Just looking over the basics again.

    if it's not Q4 then eshhhh. that probably means surface mounting repairs or a new board.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from heme:

    did you do a continuity check btwn the backbox on the J1 green/ yellow wire and the various switches they are connected to?
    Just looking over the basics again.
    if it's not Q4 then eshhhh. that probably means surface mounting repairs or a new board.

    I have continuity there.

    #43 2 years ago

    I found it! I was looking at the wrong Q4! The Q4 I was looking at was on the other board. I can see the black residue on this one and it appears to be fried!

    20180603_223809 (resized).jpg

    #44 2 years ago

    I learned a lot on this one. Thanks for all of the input that everyone gave me.

    #45 2 years ago

    nice dude, congrats!

    #46 2 years ago

    Thanks!

    #47 2 years ago

    Also measure the resistors to Q4.Just for sure.

    1 week later
    #48 2 years ago

    So that blown transistor above was the issue. Big thanks eabundy for replacing it for me!

    #49 2 years ago

    did you check the transistors

    Edit: oops I didn't read the whole thread sounds like you figured it out.

    #50 2 years ago

    So now the game plays great after the transitior was replaced but there is another issue. I have a cointaker deluxe back box kit. The flashers work fine but the rgb lighting doesn't fade and change colors anymore.

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