It's so tiring to hear opinions on the game being priced too high when they sold 1,000 in one day.

Did not! they still have LE's left

wheres that reserve that you had promised me? I waited all day that monday and never heard from you till I seen in a thread that you tried to contact us but I never got one phone call or PM or email. did you really have all them machines or were you pulling my leg?

what did the last couple BBB's go for?

It's still a $4k toy. Sure you'll get to tell all your friends and family you finally have a MM, but seriously, how is eight thousand dollars a good deal for a pinball machine?!?

I say this with all sincerety and respect for you guys' opinions.....where can I sign up for an LE?

I'm convinced Steve Ritchie could fart in a bottle and sell 1,000 units to the pin community for no less than $5-per at this point Strike while the iron is hot.

Very interested! Is it limited to 1,000 units?

Whenever I fart in a bottle, it smells like bum.

PPS sold out within 6 hours, now some of the distributors might have a few left here and there as well as dupe orders are now being cancelled to free up units for the wait list which these will be gone in no time flat.

And no doubt there might be some smaller sellers that may have a few units for they weren't as popular as JJP or Automated and Twisted etc.

Is the fart bottle mirrored glass?? If so I'm in!

nope!!!!! PPS took pre orders from people with no deposit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the same people put a deposit at a distributor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LEAVING PPS WITH A BUNCH OF WORTHLESS TWICE COUNTED PRE ORDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FACT!!!!

Wow, I'm sorry didn't know you work with Rick, becasue Rick did state differently in another thread (FACT).

BTW, all the cap lock "characters" and "!!!" in the world still doesn't mean "FACT"

Even still how many people were there that did that vs people dying to get a spot. It's not an issue.

then why is pps sending out emails asking for deposit for the pre orders still?

you are right they will sell the pre orders that come come back and I am very happy to have a LE and think rick doing this is awesome just tired of hearing it was sold out in a hour

If they weren't sold out, they wouldn't have a waiting list. Read his statement.

A list where if any dupes arise they are now offering it to these folks on the waiting list.

yes they have a waiting list and they are giving the pre orders to people on the list as people do not pay for them but the fact is they did not collect on the pre orders at the time and many people went to jersy jack or twisted and got in line leaving a worthless re order with pps

LOL, they are! (JJP, PPS, and others...)

No, they had to pay $10,500 for a reimported beater.

I don't think too many are saying it is a 'great deal' or even a 'good deal' at this price. However, I think most people feel it is a reasonable price to have a NIB machine that is considered one of the best of all time, and that previous to this announcement they would not be able to touch for close to double that. I would certainly take an MMR for 8K over most, if not all, of the Sterns that are 5K to 8K. Obviously the price point is reasonable enough that they were able to sell out in a awfully fast amount of time, even if there are double orders, etc. And yes, maybe there are some double orders, and deposits missing, so maybe it was not 3 hours or 6 hours, etc., but the reality is there is clearly more then enough demand at that price for them to sell them all.

The big question now is wether the machine that gets produced is up to the quality expected. I have confidence PPS will deliver a quality product, if they don't, well, they will have zero chance of producing and selling another machine after it. They have a lot at stake.

As far as profit. Keep in mind they are not the "assembler" of the game, so there is another business that needs to make a profit on the work, so it is not that all of the upside goes to PPS, but they are the ones taking the risk, and they also have to earn something on the investment in the license.

PM sent.

Most sellers will have PDI bottles while Pinball Sales will have Invisiglass bottle (sorry, only with a JJP logo).

Not sure how people can even argue about the price of MMR. Demanding better speakers and more upgrades? Come on! Even if it cost 2k to build and selling for 8k. They have the rights to do this. I pay $100 for a designer shirt that cost what? .50 over in China? Look at that mark up. If I told you last year that I could get you a NIB MMR for 10k how fast would it have sold? Just a bit sick of seeing people wanting more and more trying to justify “less wires is a lower cost so I want better speakers” attitude. End rant...

They could at least give you the courtesy of a reach around while they're ramming you up the rear with the sale price

Do you have any other opinions on the subject, or is this it? I've read your iterations of the same point for the last few days, ad nauseam.

You think it's too expensive. Got it.

You and I balance each other out, so it's a wash

WOW!!! People want to get the most bang for their buck and that sickens you. Just because you don't possess any sense to spend your money wisely, doesn't mean the buyers of MMR should be so cavalier with their money.

I'm just disappointed that they didn't charge MORE for the game.

I was really looking to spend $10,000, not a measly $8,000.

Where does this come in? How do you know how I spend my money?

I understand getting the best bang for your buck. But to expect that on a MMR?? Come on man does your comment even make sense? So a pair of upgraded speakers and some extra fancy BLING will justify spending 8k on a MMR? Thats getting a good bang for your buck? Now that just might be the most foolish statement of 2013 Honch. There is no bang for buck with MMR or MM or CC or AFM. If they were only going to make 100 and that was it for 10k I bet there would be no complaints.

I would think being able to afford an $8000 toy is evidence that you've managed your money reasonably well.

Whether jjp, stern, or pp - they're all business in business to make profit. Nobody does this to break even. And when you're adding things up don't forget planetary has to pay licensing costs as well. I'm not saying these games are too much or too little simply that a bunch of business guys figure 8000 is the sweet spot where they can make money providing something the consumer wants and can afford. If they're off in their business model then they won't sell enough and will have to lower the price or abandon the project. If they didn't price it high enough then they won't be able to keep up with demand.

Given what we're seeing for pricing by jjp stern and planetary, I think it's safe to assume that sub 5000$ Nib games are going to be a thing of the past. If that means I as a buyer have more choices then that's a good thing. If that means the consumer can't flip these and make a profit then that's ok too. In a correct model where supply matched demand and pricing, the used market would see a depreciation on all titles. Why should the consumer be making profit off pinballs - if the market is correct they shouldn't be. These should be depreciating assets with the exception of a few LE games that are exceptional and the numbers are truly limited. If you want to blame anyone for 8000$ pins - blame the used market and not the manufacturers. The used market however WILL be corrected in the very near future with more and more supply and innovative games coming onboard.

End of discussion.

I still don't think it's worth it, but that doesn't mean potential buyers don't have the right to try. Get over yourself with the indignant BS.

I see it the other way and think people started to seek out more of the older games once NIB pins shot up from $3.5-$4K to $6-8K. I don't think anyone can say whose theory is correct and maybe it was a little of both. I do hope you are correct and the used market corrects itself, however I don't see it happening when used pins are much more attractive then NIB's when they keep increasing prices. Stern has not really been that innovative and guess we will leave that up to JJP and boutique manufactures.

You can ONLY blame the buyers for 8K prices.

As a manufacturer, I will raise my prices as high as the market will bear.

That is exactly why I don't think PPS would have any plans to sale remakes for less than they already are.

This still comes down to what the market will bear.

$8k MMR's? Yes.
$8k AFM's? Not likely.
$8k Funhouse's? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

MMR, BBB, CC, and (possibly) MB are the only titles that will do well at that pricepoint. Strictly my opinion, of course.

Of course not, and you just KNOW they're kicking themselves for not pricing the MM remake at least $1,000 higher.

"Dude, $9,000 for a NIB is a GREAT DEAL on a game that sells for $14,000 and higher! TAKE MY MONEY!!"

Well they better choose the pin to re-make carefully then. IMO there are only a few pins out there to be remade that would sell a ton at $8K. Such as, CC, BBB, & MB.

Triumvirat73 beat me to it!

You have to include AFM as well. You cannot touch a routed AFM for under 6K and trust me I been looking. Then once you factor in the price for all new parts (PF, Decals, plastics, ramps, trim,etc) you are close to 8K not to mention all the time and labor involved. So for some they would rather just pay to have a NIB game they can enjoy even if it's a remake. I think AFM is a better player then CC, BBB, MB, and MM so think they would be able to sell a lot.

I'm not sure I agree with that one although it is a popular title so who knows. AFM is not in the same price category right now as MM, BBB, CC, and MB IMO. You could be right for sure but for me the price on a AFMR would need to be closer to $7,000 for me to jump like I did on MMR.

It is all about supply and demand as far as pricing, and we have certainly seen that in this market. PPS had to make a pricing decision based on what they have seen in the market and yes, you could argue that based on the demand at the price they came out with, they could have priced it higher and possibly maximized profits at the original 1,000 unit production run.

Over the last 25 years the supply of new machines has dropped as manufacturers have disappeared and the production in general has been reduced as the demand lowered. Once the machines disappeared from location, the collector market started to grow, and in the last 15 years has driven up demand, and prices have gone up accordingly, both for new and old titles. Not surprisingly, as demand goes up, the markets adjust, and we are now seeing an increase in supply, as we have two new manufacturers and some potential smaller players popping up (skit-B, Multimorphic (P^3), etc). We also have Stern now doing tiered pricing to try to maximize profits from both operators and deep pocketed collectors who want toys and bling.

If demand remains where it is, with an increased supply, the prices will slowly come down. Obviously we will see this for the original MMs, since demand for those will drop since there is now more supply for that title, but the price on the originals will always remain higher then the re-release for obvious reasons.

If the collector market cools and demand goes down, then prices will come down. I'm not saying the bubble has burst, but given changes in the last two years, I would expect that pinflation will start to slow and prices will stabilize, for all but the most desirable titles. Even for 'A' titles, it would not surprise me if the rise in prices slows given the threat of a re-release.

If prices continue to climb the barrier to entry for new collectors will be too high, and with a continuing new supply, ultimately demand will come down, and so will prices, until a new equilibrium is reached.

Uggggggggh...NOT another supply and demand post.

I find it helpful. I cant grasp why prices fall when more get made. Its so confusing.

LMAO

Wait till the collectible classic car analogy gets used for the millionth time.

Because Pinside dragged in so many new people, things are out of control.

LTG : )

Or the watch analogy

Maybe these posts keep coming up because clearly people don't understand it. I guess that it is indictment of our education system.

Moving along to more important things...when do I get to put my MMRLE in my pinside collection?

Have I told you about the Shelby Cobra? No? Let me break it down for you... It always makes me laugh when I read that! I wish the posts saying "I own an MM and don't care because collectors will always want the originals and they will always be worth more" would stop as well. There is a big difference between collectible markets. Everything from jewelry, art, electronics, cars, etc. Some appreciate and some do not when reproductions/updated versions are being made.

Especially items that are meant for use and rack up some wear and tear (pinball machines being one of them) will not appreciate/hold value like something in the art field (or other collectibles that are only meant for display). Items containing electronics are another crapshoot. New technology will almost always trump old tech. Additionally, like with every restoration project, repro parts decrease the value of your collectible (new decals, new parts, etc) over a completely original machine.

In the end, you are only left with a small handful of collectors who will demand an original MM. Most of the other buyers that were looking for MM's before just wanted to play/own the dang thing and are perfectly happy with the remake. Therefore, decreased number of buyers for the original MM = price decrease on original MM. That is all there is to it.