Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. Makes me feel even better about my mmle!

Thank's for the revue of the revue.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-limited-quantity-available-from-pinball-phil-arcades-at-home

In your honest opinion does it seem like $8,000 worth of a machine?
It just seems with so much stuff reduced, I.e., wires, boards and R&D that $8000 would give you something way and beyond just a replica of a MM.

thanks for your views. can't wait to see photos of the new boardset and this radically reduced wiring under the playfield.
Not buying one but only because I owned one for 4 years and really played it to death.
COngrats to the people getting one. Never thought I'd see the day.

D

as we often say on klov...
photos, or it didn't happen

That's great to hear! Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Thank you for the info !

LTG : )

Great to hear! Thanks for sharing!

Good to know. I was concerned about the authenticity since CG is using a unique hardware platform.

Sound too good but happy things are going great

It had better play better than the original for that price....

It did, he just didn't want to hurt anyones feelings

Does it have more parts than a Ford Taurus?

Cost of production savings abound!

If they could sell these for $3k back in the day to make a profit, who wants to guess what the per-unit build cost is on one MMR?

great to hear your insight on the prototype. thanks.

Who cares what PPS makes on the game. Good for them to buy the licenses and setup the production for a classic title like MM. I hope they make a million on the remakes, as they have made a few thousand people very happy.

I have no problem with them making money I just want to know the game doesn't need additional upgrades like speaker system, plastic protectors and such. For the money they are charging the games should be "upgraded" with these items, IMO of course.

Sounds like your typical 5 star google product review to me surely objective with not one negative and even the negatives of the short comings are positives way to spin baby.

+1.
I usually don't mind when someone with a great idea - and the guts to make it a reality - profits a bit for their endeavor. This whole thing took a vision, foresight, risk, a gut-check, investment and then a promise to deliver. Helluva lot better than some corporate raider squeezing profits out of human capital by downsizing and laying people off. Or some flipper gouging a newb for a routed pos or a fake HUO. Congrats to PPS. Many happy returns!

I don't begrudge Stern their profits either. I do begrudge them for crappy QC and retarded code release management.

, they already have made a million just off of the pre-order payment. But let's assume the profit margin per-pin is $4,000 dollars, they made $4,000,000 profit just off the 'LE' run...

But hey, "let's charge the same price for the newly announced 'standards' (still at a $4,000 per-unit profit)," sell two-thousand more games. New profit on remake $12,000,000.

I'm all for them making millions, but this recent BS of $8k being reasonable for any pinball machine is just getting hilarious with everyone rushing to get into the dick measuring contest.

I seriously doubt they are making $4K a pin on this deal.

LTG : )

^What would you guess the build total is? I'm not trying to be an ass, but am genuinely interested.

There was a time the manufacturer made about $500 and distributor made about $500 a unit.

If Stern, JJP, or PPS made $1K a unit, I'd be surprised. More than likely less.

If you could make more, more companies would be popping up.

LTG : )

And prior companies would get back into the pin business as well..

$500 a machine is a nice profit as well .. Just think - how many Star Trek's do you think they'll sell total? Let's be very conservative and say 1500. That would still be $750k profit, on just that machine alone. 2-3 machines a year, around +/- $1.5-$2 million in profit per year ... I'll take that business model.

Not having to employ people to fully code/program from ground up, and tweak PF layout multiple times has to be saving them a ton of moola compared to Stern and JJP. Skit-B has to be loosing their shirt selling at $4750...

I have a hard time believing remake costs are anywhere near current market prices.

What ever they make they're welcomed to it but I think if Stern sells the pro model for 4800.00 and makes a decent profit, then selling a game at 8k will net some where in 3-4K. There was some discussion about this before when Vid and other were discussing making their own MM, if I remember correctly it was estimated to cost 6-7K for an individual to make an MM, so with the economies of scale of a company that orders 1000's of parts that number would be in the 4K region, but I could be wrong.

Let's say code costs $30,000 to develop (not really working it from scratch - templates are available), and playfield tweaking another $30,000 (mostly labor). Sounds like a lot of money, $60k. With 2,000 machines being made - that only comes to an additional cost of $30 per machine. Heck even if you put code at $50,000, and playfield tweaking at $50,000 for a total of $100k - that's still only $50 per machine @ 2000 quantity.

I realize things can be adjusted for inflation, but Wayne had it priced to make a profit at 5k 5 years ago. PPS has streamlined the process and added a 3k bump.

If you really want to compare BOM on pinball machines, look at what WOZ sells for compared to this. So I don't know about the 500 for machine as you have to adjust for inflation on profit as well.

Not that any of this matters as Rick is entitled to get a return on his investment. He took the chance in purchasing the rights to Williams, and he obviously priced it right as it sold out in 3 hours with people waiting. An argument can be made that he could have charged more as that was the quickest sell out in the history of pinball. The rights holder for Williams making a profit is a good thing for the pinball hobby.

The good news is that somebody that has actually played has a favorable review. That bodes well for MMR buyers. So far everybody else has just speculated on how this will play, and there will be other opinions later, but for now, at its early stages, it seems like people will be happy with their purchase.

Really.

And how many did he sell ?

LTG : )

Vaporware has high margins.

Fixed it for you as I think he sold 1k- Is PPS honoring his price by reproducing the MM?

What about WOZ, and their pricing with their BOM?

Again, all that matters is it seems that this time it is going to be a happy ending for MMR buyers. I was a buyer for Wayne's reproduction and I am curious what would have happened if I stayed in. Would PPS have honored Wayne's price, or would I have to get a refund and put that towards PPS' machine?

Is this the same company that produced the Vacation America pinball?

http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=4848

Dont forget inflation, cause back in the day raw materials were a fraction of what they cost now.

The Williams factory in its day was producing 300 games a day. The economies of scale would be significant.

Why would they? Nobody gives up $8k worth of machine now. It only costs that, because people are willing to pay that.

For full disclosure, Phil looks like he only starts threads when he is selling something, and he is selling these machines.

does it have the home roms?

home roms with coin play?

surface mount LED's?? There is a new hardware system stern game on test that had some go bad and they need to replace the full board they are on to fix it.

When and where did Wayne ever make and sell 1,000 MM's ?

Outside of one he supposedly made for himself ?, I've never heard of a single person getting one of his remakes with the Bally logo.

Been coming and promised for many years, lots of pictures of parts and equipment. I've never seen one game or heard of anyone getting one.

LTG : )

Never.

He never made any- I never said that. I said he sold 1k and he made money off some of those sales. That is why I corrected your comment of "make" to "sell".

He sold 1k of MM with deposits of 2500 and had the money in an account. He still made money off of investors as when many pulled out, including myself, as the exchange rate was higher and I settled for a lesser amount to get my money back. I lost money on the "sale".

I don't know how many this happened to, but it did happen to me.

Pump and dump. A pinside tradition.

I apologize, I misunderstood you.

LTG : )

No idea, I don't speak for PPS.

LTG : )

I know, I was just putting it out for discussion. As that seed money helped make this happen. If the BOM is as low as people are claiming, yet the quality is still there like the OP states, I hope the people that still have deposits tied up end up a MMR for the price they signed up for.

It was mentioned in the original MMR thread, but I did not see particulars.

I think there's a difference between designing their own home machine from scratch for the home market (which admittedly was a piece of shit) & being contracted to re-build an existing game with WMS quality mechs, parts & toys. Sure, the electronics are being redesigned...but everything that flips & moves will be as it always has been....so - no reason to think Vacation America's flaws should have any bearing on MMr.

I thought the exact same thing. 8K doesn't seem reasonable and I'm surprised so many people think it's a good deal. I guess time will tell. Price aside, I wouldn't be shocked if the new MMR plays as well or even better than the original.

Get a NIB MM for 8k or a routed beater for 12k+

Regardless of the cost to make that's a good deal. Then compare the price of a nib original mm 20k+? The new machine is a downright bargain

Nobody was getting 12K for a beater.