(Topic ID: 39339)

i need a little guideance with a repair

By wehyam

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 14 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by johnwartjr
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 11 years ago

hey i have a wite water pinball made by williams. my current issue is nothing turns on but i hear a hummmm. i have the manuals and schematics and found all fuses good and all leds in the correct state except D20 was off and d19 stayed on. when checking the voltages at the test points they were all good.

i am an electrician and instrument tech so i have a little background in electronics but appearently not enough. if someone could maybe help lead me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

thanks

#2 11 years ago

If I remember correctly, D19 should be off, D20 blinking and D21 solid. It sounds like your game may not be blanking.

Did anything happen before this started?

With the game off, try reseating all the ribbon cables. Always a good place to start. Here is a reference that could help:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Power-On_LEDs_and_Sound_Tones_.28Bongs.29

Good luck.

Dan

#3 11 years ago

Hmmm..... re check all the connections in the back box again?

check the batteries and holder ?

#4 11 years ago

Check the voltage test points on the power driver board in the head.

See if any are low or missing.

The 50 volt not under load can be higher.

LTG : )

#5 11 years ago

Did you replace the board with a different board?

I had that problem when I swaped my Funhouse CPU board with my White Water board, even though I swaped the ASIC, Game Rom, and U4. I'm trouble shooting a switch problem but unrelated to yours. Granted my Funhouse might be pooched now but I'll find out later.

I found this bit of info online, Look at pin 3 of U21 there starts the blanking signal coming from the ASIC; if it is "low" there then you have a problem in the amplifier chips U21 or U5. You can follow the signal through both chips easily using the schematic. If it is already "High" at U21 Pin 3 then the signal coming from the ASIC is bad, again change the ASIC or 6809 (U4). If that doesn't help, look for a pro to send that board too because you'll just spin your wheels. This is all assuming your power is where and what it should be. I didn't have power issues, I put the old board in and it booted just fine. Just missing a switch column.

#6 11 years ago

I am headed out to continue trouble shooting but all voltages were good except tp6 50V was 72 as mentioned in previous post. i guess it must not be loaded but is this normal?

thank you every one for your ideas and i will get back to the forum for more help if these ideas come up short.

#7 11 years ago

now i have reseated everyy connection and replaced the batteries as recommended on previous posts. also i followed the proceedure for measuring u21 pin 3 and found a "low" this means that the cpu is working correctly and possibly the amplifiers are not. i followed u21 and u5 through the pinnouts and found all the gates were inverting the signal as expected. the only gate i had a problem with was u12f which is you 32khz signal and the frequency was good but without a scope i couldn't measure the voltage.

sorry i am long winded but any more info would be great. i was wondering if u6 got wiped out if it could cause this issue?

#8 11 years ago

You have your work cut out for you, should see my help wanted post on here. I'm getting a logic probe this week. I have no choice!

Let's put the horse in front of the cart here. Might be jumping ahead. I'm reading up on the blanking circuit now. The voltage is ok at TP6(my whitewater boots and is 72V at TP6).

Not sure if there was a failure with one of your coils or not but first thing I'd isolate the CPU from all other boards. Pull all the ribbon cables including the switch cables. The only one to leave is J210 because that's your 5V supply. Power up and watch for blinks. D19 Should come on for a bit then off, if D20 blinks 1, 2 or 3 blinks it's telling you a fault code. If there is a problem with all cables detached note the D20 blinks, tells you if U6, U8 or U9 are bad as your suspecting possible U6 so that's a single blink.

You mentioned humming in the game, the 15,000 ufd caps might very well be weak on the driver board if the sound is coming from that area.

#9 11 years ago

thanks for the info i will try it later tonight and get back to you

#10 11 years ago

hey just ran out to the machine for a quick minute. i took off all cables except j210 (from the cpu board) and fired it up. the light situation was the same with 19 and 21 on and 20 off but after starting it this time maybe 10 seconds later i heard a bong from the speakers same as i think it used to but i hadn't played it for about a year when it broke on me.

on fire up the d20 flashes for maybe a ms when the rest turn on but it is so fast i wouldn't consider it a blink. are the blinks held for a sec or is the quick flash on start up a blink??

thank you guys for the help so far and if there are any more ideas that would be great.

#11 11 years ago

The bong means nothing in relation to the CPU. The bong simply indicates that the sound board has booted, it has its own processor, RAM, and ROMs.

If the CPU still isn't booting with everything but power disconnected, you've definitely got a CPU issue. Sending it out for proper repair would be my recommendation.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#12 11 years ago

There is a guy selling a U6 chip on ebay in Indiana. johnwartjr is the user name. I agree though with Borygard, Clive at Coin-Op Caulron is reliable and post a price of 78.00 to repair but they'll quote you first. Can pull your hair out trouble shooting this and get nickel and dimed on parts and shipping. But for 150$ get your 4000+ dollar machine working again. While that board is away consider replaceing caps on the driver board in the mean time.

http://webpages.charter.net/coinopcauldron/brepairs.html

1 week later
#13 11 years ago

thank you guys for helping me out i will be looking into a new board

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from Nighthawk128:

There is a guy selling a U6 chip on ebay in Indiana. johnwartjr is the user name. I agree though with Borygard, Clive at Coin-Op Caulron is reliable and post a price of 78.00 to repair but they'll quote you first. Can pull your hair out trouble shooting this and get nickel and dimed on parts and shipping. But for 150$ get your 4000+ dollar machine working again. While that board is away consider replaceing caps on the driver board in the mean time.
http://webpages.charter.net/coinopcauldron/brepairs.html

That's me. This doesn't sound like a ROM problem.

I would strongly recommend against just replacing caps for the heck of it. Most driver board problems are NOT cap related, even though internet folklore has advised to replace bridges and caps for years in various sites and forums. You can do a lot of damage changing the caps if you don't know what you are doing!

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