(Topic ID: 232527)

What Medieval Madness would you keep?

By Damien

5 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 151 posts
  • 61 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Extraballz
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What Medieval Madness would you keep?”

  • Original 116 votes
    54%
  • Remake 99 votes
    46%

(215 votes)

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#1 5 years ago

I own a Medieval Madness LE remake. It's the first pin I ever bought 2 years ago, and it's what really got me hooked on this pinball hobby.

Recently however, I'm been fortunate enough to get my hands on a pretty nicely restored original.

I figured I'd play both of them bit, and make a decision as to what game I'd be selling. The problem is... That's tougher decision than I thought!

I think they're both awesome games, and ultimately it will come down to deciding what game jives most with me, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts and see your votes.

So... What game would you keep?

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from FlashDaddy:

I can't quite quantify how, but I think the original MM and AFM play slightly better than the remake.

I don't have enough time put in on the original yet, but first impression was that it felt a little more like the B/W games I've played. The flippers feel more like my TOM, whereas I'd say the remake feels snappier like a Stern.

Still need time to decide which one I enjoy playing more.

You'll know my decision when a "for sale" post goes up haha!

#33 5 years ago

Maybe worthwhile noting, the original has a Mirco playfield.

I'd say that makes my decision slightly more complicated. IMO, neither of these games play exactly like the original, as both have Playfield that are different. The CGC double clear crack easily on any exposed edge, and I think they play fast. Mirco looks cool, but the clear feels thick, and not like any B/W games. I've also seen some Mirco Dialed In pfs that look like absolute shit even when HUO.

to me and then one of the big advantages to the original is that I would hopefully get my hands on a NOS playfield and do the swap one day in the future. Then I would have a true restored original.

The decision is definitely tough.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

Good luck making this decision. I honestly don’t know what I would do if I was you. Having the LE which you bought new is cool too.

Indeed the decision is going to be tough, but it's certainly not a bad problem to have! I feel fortunate I can play both great games and then decide on the one I like best.

They both are fantastic games, and there are a lot of good points and thoughts on both games in this thread.

Right now I'm only playing the original (and fixing a few problems) and have the remake set up really friendly with extra balls handed out like candy, and outlanes set to easy. My wife seems to actually be enjoying it, so I'll leave it like that for a while, and who knows, she might see BFTK!

I've played MMR for two years, so I have a pretty solid opinion on the game. I need to put in some time with this original to really see how I feel about it.

I do believe though that it feels like other B/W games (like my old TZ, TOM, IJ, etc.) and the remake just feels modern.

Not saying I like one more than the other at this point, bit anyone saying there isn't a difference, even slight probably needs more time on both of them.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I have played MMR and MBR and i didn't notice anything being slow or unresponsive about the flippers? They felt nice and snappy to me.

It's not really about snappiness in my opinion. More about robustness. It just feel more sturdy. I'm not exactly sure how you explain it. People say B/W flippers have a certain feel to them. I would not say my MMR has that feel. My AFMR is much closer.

I've played 5 MMRs, and I think they all play slightly different, but the difference in the original is more than what I would call a slight game-to-game variance.

Again, everyone sees it differently. Obviously, there are many in this thread that think it's different, other that think it's not, and some even who think the remake feels better.

Gotta play more to really see!

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

I'd say that because the older MM has a reproduction playfield, it really isn't original and therefore just keep whichever you are more attached to. i know that my restored mm with all oem parts including playfield feels completely different than the CGC version. I agree that CGC got it just about perfect on AFM LE r which i owned (also owned a restored AFM with all oem parts so i can tell) but they were still going through growing pains when they did MM and didn't get it perfect. I don't know why so many MMr owners have to defend the heck out of their game when those of us that own and have played both can tell that the remake MM simply doesn't feel the same. Unless you have played both extensively, you really can't argue with those of us that have. Now remember, I did say AFMr is just about perfect in feel and yes, i would give the AFM LE the advantage over an original any day of the week so I am not trying to put down the efforts of CGC or say their product is inferior. MM r was simply their first effort and they have become better since.

I have both of them here for comparison. Maybe I can come up with a way to run a comparison test. Hmmmm...

As for the pf, if I kept the original, I'd be on the hunt for a brand new NOS. I just missed one on eBay.

I don't want anything with extra clear coating done to it, as I feel that changes the way the game plays. I like my games 100% stock and default, so getting it that way could only happen with an original and some luck finding an original mint and untouched pf!

I hate moving games when it's cold and snowy, so I'll probably play both of these until spring, and then hopefully know which one I'm sticking with by then.

#52 5 years ago
Quoted from ctviss:

Pinside puts the value of both at nearly the same. I say keep the original and sell the remake while you can still get the most money for it... originals will never be produced again but remakes will, at least for the foreseeable future, and there is a certain charm to owning a piece of history.
If you're a purist it's not even a question. In every hobby there are purists who will only buy/own originals. It's why people fully restore classic cars and spend countless hours searching for original stock parts. As a collector, there is no alternative.
But if you're just in the hobby to have the most fun possible, the remake brings a lot to the table.

Great post! I think if my original had a mint NOS playfield in it, the decision would be much easier.

I'm not crazy about the quality of Mirco playfields, and from many Dialed In games I've seen I also don't trust them for durability.

But if I decided to keep the original I would always have the option to one day switch over to an NOS.

I went over the machine with a fine eye last night and noticed some minor imperfections. Just little things like a couple of nicks in the cabinet decal, and some bush league black paint touch ups around the head trim. I don't see these necessarily being a deal-breaker but it definitely is not as mint as my remake.

Also one thing I noticed and I'm not sure if it is on all originals or just my restored one, but the walls at the inside of the cabinet show the grainy lines of wood under the paint where the remake is just a smooth black piece of laminate or something.

I don't have any other B/W here now to compare, but were the inside walls a different material between the original and remake and was it normal to see the wood lines in the black paint?

#54 5 years ago
Quoted from Only_Pinball:

Yes. The remakes have laminated sides and B/W have painted plywood. Speaking of plywood, the remakes have plywood bottoms and on the originals it's press board.

What bottom is strongest?

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from vwallat99:

I would probably just keep the game you already have. But the fact that you are flirting with the idea of the restored original kinda shows where your heart lies. If you aren't 100% with the remake then I say chase after what you are looking for.

It's complicated... I have both

#72 5 years ago

In my opinion, I'd prefer a NOS original pf over both the Mirco and the new CGC. The CGC coat chips way to easily, and also makes games much faster than originally designed. Mirco pfs scare me. I've seen way some pretty concerning wear on new games.

I like the shaker on MMR, but I assume I can get a pretty close effect with a shaker on MM.

Screen isn't really a big deal to me. I think those laptop monitors in MMR will cause more problems than proven DMD screens.

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#77 5 years ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

I think it is hard to compare and make a decision based on the choices.
On one hand you have a MMR
On the other you have what sounds like possibly an amateur Mirco playfield swap.
There is a lot involved in not just swapping a playfield but properly doing it where you walk away with a good playing game.
I have used and installed many original as well as IPB and Mirco MM playfields without issue but there are definitely things you have to be on the lookout for during the build.
Your game might simply need some adjustments and dialing in.
This thread does address some of that.
Flipper alignment,ball guide alignment,verifying dimple accuracy and making adjustments are all a part of good gameplay. If not done it can give a bad impression.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-presents-a-tale-of-two-medieval-madnesses

First off, I respect the work you do greatly!

Not sure why you say it's an "amateur" job, as the game looks pretty good, and plays great. I think I enjoy how this one plays over MMR, because IMO (everyone is entitled to one) I thirty plays more like other B/W games I've been on or owned.

Not everyone agrees that it plays/feels differently than a remake, and even those who do, only have their own individual theories as to why.

I've only been in this hobby a couple of years, but to me, there is a noticeable difference in the way they play, and I have both side-by-side right now to compare. a lot of people here have owned both games but at different times which makes it very hard to do a fair comparison. I'm playing them pretty much in tandem.

One thing I wondered is if the game feel different due to materials, especially wood. If the remakes use laminate, and the originals used wood, then I'd imagine one should feel heavier and sturdier. Maybe that would also affect the play, since a machine is option nudges and interacted with on a physical level.

Again, I'm not sure what game I prefer more, but there is without a doubt in my mind, that these games do not play the same (and not the usual game to game variation of play).

#83 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I got the impression he was saying that if it had a NOS playfield in it, it would’ve played better.

Not sure better is what I meant. More that it would play as originally designed. I'm a bit OCD about that.

The Mirco of I have lots great, and as I said in many posts in this thread the game deals and plays like a true B/W.

I just don't know if I trust the longevity of the playfield, but I'm Soley basing that on a few Dialed In games I've seen in person.

I think with EPA changes, you just can't make pfs like they used to. You can get them restored so they look like art pieces but I think on some level that changes the way a game plays.

#85 5 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Games are handmade no matter what company you’re talking about. The minute differences during installation of parts, etc, all add up.
I think the only fact that we can all agree on is how lucky you are to have such a problem
Remember when you couldn’t get a MM? And now you have two!

I agree with you completely and totally. We all are very fortunate to be in a position where we can afford to enjoy these machines. I know for me personally, it wasn't always like this!

I had a wire snap off of one of the switches on MM, so I decided to play a couple quick games of MMR tonight. Such a good game!

1 week later
-2
#87 5 years ago

A little update... I'm now leaning towards sticking with the remake.

And this is why... I think the remake is more fun to play because of the shaker integration and the great dots.

But the original plays better. I know there are a lot of people that disagree with this, but having the games side by side, the argument is settled for me.

They feel different too. Take you knuckles and knock on the side of a remake cabinet. It's hollow a d cheap feeling. But then take a knock at a B/W cabinet, and feel and hear that difference.

Shit... I think I just talked myself out of it again! Haha

-1
#92 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

i get that, but if the original plays better in his mind why would he even consider the worse playing one? the point is to play, not to stare at them.

I'd argue the point is to enjoy. And being a family/friend shared machine, it's the one more people seem to enjoy.

I think the casual player will find the remake more exciting. I think for anyone that is serious about pinball the original is the way to go.

I'm still undecided but they both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I hear the shaker on the remake does more than the original. Can anyone comment on that?

-1
#98 5 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Sell them both.
Half kidding. It's a decent game, but much better games out there. Since I beat it, I rarely play it.

Just beat the original for the first time, and I think I've finished my remake about 5 times. Still not tired of it at all! To me, it's the complete game. I love the humor, the sounds, the 90s campy feel, and of course the game play.

I think I'm going to make a decision about which one to sell sooner than I had planned, as I'm now considering a Batman 66 Premium.

Hmmmmmm... Decisions, decisions...

1 month later
#100 5 years ago

A decision has been made........

Medieval Madness original is staying.

A guy asked me the other night, "do they play diffently"?

My response was yes. In my opinion, with the two games side-by-side, there was a definite difference. One feels like an older B/W, and the other like a modern game (Stern).

Is one better than the other? Not in my opinion.

As a matter of fact, the deciding factor had very little to do with the feel of the game. I decided on the original, because I have more confidence in being able to repair issues as they occur.

Everyone else who played the two games said they prefer the remake. They liked the snappier flippers, and the enhanced dots.

Did I make the right choice? Who knows!

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

They play different because one had 25 year old worn parts and one is new. Simple as that.

Have to politely disagree. My original is restored with all new parts, and a new Mirco pf. The difference is in the feel of the flippers. The MM plays just like my TOM, TZ, and IJ. The MMR plays more like Sterns I've owned.

Not a bad or good thing. Just a difference thing.

Again, all the people the played my game, said they would want the remake. I personally decided to keep the original because it's a game I will likely have here still when my children are grown up, and I want to be able to service it and keep it going

#117 5 years ago

How about this. There are like 95% or more people out there that couldn't ever afford an item like this, so whether you own a MMR, an MM, or even a Shaq Attack for that matter, you're probably in that small group of people that should consider themselves fortunate

I had both games side-by-side for months. It would be harder to draw a more complete comparison. And in the end, I settle it as a TIE!

And that will hopefully conclude this never ending debate (but likely not).

#138 5 years ago
Quoted from britrex1:

The build quality is just as good or better.

I've owned both. I love both. You can't go wrong with either one.

But for build quality, they don't make games now like they used to. Go to the side of the cabinet for your MMR, and knock on it like a door. Listen to how hollow that knock sounds. Then go to any B/W game, and knock on that. It's dense. It's high quality wood. You can even see the grain in it.

I actually like how the remakes look, as the side walls are nice and smooth.

CGC just put out a bulletin because of issues with MBr cabinets, and I know other manufacturers have had issues in recent times too.

The remakes stand out to me because they are a refreshing interpretation of some of the best games ever made. They are not identical, and it's unfair to compare them as such. The original has it's advantages, and so do the remakes. The decision to own one one the other should be personal, and you should not make others feel like crap because they've chosen differently.

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