Apologies for not replying sooner, I do not normally check for posts tagging me (as it's relatively rare) so I only just saw the thread. Since you brought up some of my comments in particular that you perhaps wanted a response to.
Quoted from soren:
The back story is some forum activity and a poll (now removed) about "who is the greater guy" among public pinball personalities.
Quotes from Dennis and my comments.
"I was one of the early people to actually reply to it. Which is not something I normally would do."
One of these, I never go to Pinside, but...
I visit Pinside all the time and I don't recall ever stating otherwise. I'm not a particularly prolific poster outside of a few threads.
My statement was regarding that I don't normally reply to threads I feel exist here just to feed drama. I think my posting history demonstrates I mostly stick to more practical threads and podcast threads.
"[The poll] It seems designed for no purpose other than to create drama."
Surely, people create topics on a forums to get a response from the community. But just for drama, you say? That is speculation.
It could be felt by the author as harmless fun or genuine debate.
Correct; I felt I made clear I was speculating by my statement "it SEEMS designed" (emphasis added).
The reason I speculated as such as there was another thread that had just come off a massive drama round involving those same two individuals. So is it possible that the author really just randomly wanted to have some fun or a debate? Sure, but it seemed unlikely to me (and based off the responses to the thread it seemed unlikely to most of the people who replied as well). I did go into more specifics as to the prior drama element during that portion of the podcast so I think I articulated my reasoning clearly (of course no obligation to agree with me).
"It's stuff like that, that gives Pinside the reputation of being a toxic cesspool. That it sometimes quite frankly deserves."
Outrageous. Way out of line remark in my opinion. Deeply offended by branding off the Pinside website with a label like that. Bullying. Stigmatising.
It was not my intent to offend but I can see how it would, and I do offer my apology for that since I didn't set out to upset folks. Those style of posts (the drama posts) are what develop that reputation, and the reputation is very real (I've been directly told by others that they either try to avoid Pinside, use Pinside but refuse to post here, or have totally abandoned Pinside in favor of other pinball discussion venues; I think you or anyone else can verify this easily if desired). The stigma exists and I simply acknowledged it.
I disagree with the claim that my statement is in some way "bullying" as it did not seek to intimidate, harm, or coerce. Nothing I said was designed to get Pinside to change its behavior; me complaining about a person or a place is not tantamount to bullying.
"Because they allowed that thread to exist for as long as it did."
On the podcast you mention it was up for two days. Is that really bad response time for a company the size of Pinside? For content like this? And enough to call them out as irresponsible, not living up to the code... Come on.
I'm happy to discuss the response time and call out claims privately if you wish; Pinside has rules regarding criticizing moderators so I will not weigh in on those questions publicly for that reason.
I did discuss how I felt the thread wasn't nice (and given it was deleted I assume ultimately that was the determination of the moderation team). I really don't like seeing people run down in this hobby for sport, and that's how I took it. As I noted, the post got me on a bad day, and I was still pretty heated during the podcast.
"It's like, you wanna know why everyone thinks that this place is a shithole. There you go."
Everyone - Sure of that? Shithole - Phew, strong stuff, Sir. Again, way out of line remark. When I hear something like this, I picture an echo chamber within a circle of friends that is resonating well in the red. Who is stiring up drama now then?
"Everyone" was obviously hyperbole, but fair enough though that my complaining about it could trigger drama (it did trigger this thread at the very least!).
"Because you allow things like this and then you say: Our #1 rule is - be nice."
Let's be fair, shall we. One thing is rules, intend of use etc. on an internet forum. And another is when these are violated to an extend where you can say the host is obligated to take actions of removal of content, banning users etc. And by the way, Pinside did not allow it. They removed it.
Their removal of the post was acknowledged by me during the podcast. I did not hide it and attempted to be comprehensive in my coverage of the topic.
"There is nothing nice about pitting people in a popularity contest."
The forum activity in question was a poll between to pinball individuals with weekly media apperences each. And both of them being pinball professionals, I might add. If this per definition is "not nice" and "pitting people", I guess a house cleaning is in demand a lot of places. Starting with the TWIPYs. Perspective, please.
I've already noted above, and during the podcast episode, that there was clear, prior drama that I felt (perhaps inaccurately, but definitely not alone in the assumption) this new thread was deliberately feeding off of. And given its removal I assume the same determination was officially reached by staff.
I have made public, critical remarks about the TWIPYs pitting people against each other in ways I believe are unhealthy as well.
I have also said that I am fine with criticism. Criticizing products and creations (the art, the code, the dimpling, the delays, whole companies, etc.) I think makes total sense. I never get bothered by a versus poll for pinball machines, for example. I just don't like seeing the people themselves run through like vegetables on a skewer. As small as the hobby is it just seems destructive to me. Just my opinion of course. When it is about the people specifically. We have a favorite and least favorite game from every designer; I doubt they take it any more personally than I do when someone tells me they hated one of my articles and my entire writing style (because it's still really just about the work product).
There is a risk, that if a forum is strongly moderated, the opinions shared are really that of the moderators. As much as the users.
Fair and swift moderation takes resources. Both maintaining the rulebook and enforcing it. A challange for a free spirit and niche internet community.
If a forum has a strongly enforced rulebook, it is just too easy to sabotage it. And to occupy their time with stuff you post just to be taken down. With a bully-smile and stop watch in the other hand.
Verified membership, full name, mug shot etc. would surely clean up a forum. But also clean out a forum. Facebook is more restricted in this regard. And even there, heated and rough on the edges debate takes place.
These are fair points, and the way I might like things may not be the way the majority of you want things. Nonetheless, I was upset and venting my frustrations while trying to explain my perspective. A perspective that is not unique to me (though it may be the minority view).
Last words...
The free spirit internet has a cost. Please accept it within reason, for the positive that free spirit internet brings with it.
Soren
Thank you for posting Soren. My apologies for not noticing it originally and my delay in replying. Feel free to contact me privately if you (or others) would like to discuss things further/in more detail.
I will note something that I did not state during the podcast. Pinside is a very helpful resource, from sales to tech support to a lot of really good discussions. Robin has always been helpful and great to correspond with and my private discussions with the other staff have also been positive. Yes, some of the stuff annoys me, but usually I don't have my fuse set off from it. I stand by my criticisms of the specific thread but I see how some of my hyperbole and broad-based criticism could upset people (such as it did Soren) and for that I apologize. I should have calmed down more before discussing the issue as I normally do.