I Killed Superman

Hi All,

I have been fearing this day for a few years now, I killed Superman and don't know how to revive him.

I was having a few issues with the machine so I decided to reseat all the connectors on the PCBs. The machine was turned OFF but was still plugged in and the power was on at the wall. As I was reseating the power connector on the lower left of the processor board, it has come into contact with the foil cardboard behind the board which resulted in a spark and pop. I located two ICs at H3 and H4 that I thought were the ICs that touched the cardboard. They tested bad and I have since replaced them. I tried the machine again and all I have is GI lights and a zero in each display. LEDs 1, 2, 3 and 4 are NOT lit on the processor board.

Does anyone have any idea where or what else I should be testing further up the line that has obviously been fried please?

Last option, does anyone know of a working processor board for sale if I need to go down that track?

Thanks in advance.

#2 8 years ago

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ForceFlow

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Atari_Repair#Generation_2_8

Take a look here, and specifically, the links to Leon's repair guides:

John at John's Jukes (flippers.com) seems to be one of the resident Atari experts around, so you might want to try calling or emailing him. He also does board repairs if you get stuck.

#3 8 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Thanks for that. It gives me somewhere to start. If anyone else has done something similar I would be happy to hear about it.

9 months later

#4 7 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

I have got some spare time on my hands at the moment and I would really like to try to get my Superman machine going again. It seems many of the ICs are either impossible or difficult to find.

Any Atari Sys 2 MPU boards for sale anywhere perhaps?

Apart from blindly replacing what ICs I can in the hope that I fluke it and replace the right one, has anyone got any other thoughts?

#5 7 years ago

---

ForceFlow

OP
Quoted from Pintoxicated:
Any Atari Sys 2 MPU boards for sale anywhere perhaps?

You'll have an easier time finding hen's teeth.

What chips are you looking for?

Keep in mind, the issue you have might not even be chip related. Could be cracked solder joints, broken traces, or voltage that is too low.

Did you try contacting John Robertson at flippers.com? He repairs these boards and might be able to give you some direction.

Also try posting over at RGP as well. There might be a few folks somewhat familiar with repairing this boardset.

#6 7 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

8y 114K 8,041

Have you done the finger test on the ICs to see if any/many get hot really quickly?

#7 7 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Quoted from ForceFlow:
You'll have an easier time finding hen's teeth.
What chips are you looking for?
Keep in mind, the issue you have might not even be chip related. Could be cracked solder joints, broken traces, or voltage that is too low.
Did you try contacting John Robertson at flippers.com? He repairs these boards and might be able to give you some direction.
Also try posting over at RGP as well. There might be a few folks somewhat familiar with repairing this boardset.

Yeah I know anything related to this board is going to be difficult.

Solder joints are good, most have been reflowed, traces appear good. The actual board itself looks in good condition overall. I am concentrating on the ICs seeing as the machine was working fine until I shorted the back of the board out on the metallic cardboard in the backbox. It shorted around H3 and H4. I have replaced a few ICs around that area in the hope that the damage was confined to those ICs but it is looking like there is obviously damage further up and down the line. I have attached a few pics of the board.

I will get in touch with John and see if he might have any ideas. I ended up closing the machine up and walking away from it in disgust with myself knowing I had killed it and how hard it would be to repair.

The ICs I don't have or am having difficulty finding are -

74LS253N (A4, B4, C4, D4)
CD4066BCN (L4)
SN74161N (K3)
74S570N (J3)
74LS164N (N4)
74LS393N
74LS160N (R2)
74LS04N (P2)
74LS86N (R4)

20160524_125201_(resized).jpg

20160524_125228_(resized).jpg

#8 7 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Quoted from Quench:
Have you done the finger test on the ICs to see if any/many get hot really quickly?

No I haven't tried this trick yet, I wasn't aware of it to be honest.

Just tried it, no ICs getting hot.

All I have on is the power light. L1-L4 are all off.

Post last edited 7 years ago: “Updated.”

#9 7 years ago

---

ForceFlow

I looked up what the LEDs on the MPU indicated, and the manual pointed to the backbox card. I looked at a loose card I had, but it looks like those indicator lights won't help in this situation, since lower logic chips may be at fault.

20160524001941687_(resized).jpg

#10 7 years ago

---

ForceFlow

OP
Quoted from Pintoxicated:
74LS253N (A4, B4, C4, D4)
CD4066BCN (L4)
SN74161N (K3)
74S570N (J3)
74LS164N (N4)
74LS393N
74LS160N (R2)
74LS04N (P2)
74LS86N (R4)

Have you looked on jameco.com? The seem to carry most of the 7400-series chips I've needed. Drop the leading "SN" and tailing "N", and they should come up in a search.

As for the CD4066BCN, it looks like a possible replacement *might* be CD4066BE or NTE4066B, and those are available. However--be sure to consult an expert about this chip substitution. If it's the wrong chip to be used on this board, it might cause problems or damage.

OP
Quoted from Pintoxicated:
I shorted the back of the board out on the metallic cardboard in the backbox. It shorted around H3 and H4. I have replaced a few ICs around that area in the hope that the damage was confined to those ICs but it is looking like there is obviously damage further up and down the line.

In that case, every chip could be suspect.

Test all the 7400 series chips for shorts by putting your multimeter into diode mode, putting the red lead on the Vcc/5v pin, and the black lead to each one of the other legs. If it buzzes, then the chip has a short.

It's also possible that the CPU chip itself is toast. Check the manual and use a logic probe to determine if the reset signal is being sent.

After that...doing a shotgun replacement of all the chips could cause more damage than solve withe the removal of those chips. Not something I would be particularly keen on doing with a board that was basically unobtainable.

So, the next step would be to consult someone who is familiar with these boards, and/or send it out for repair. Most repair guys don't like working on boards that have already had work done on them, since they also have to redo the repairs to make sure those weren't also causing problems.

#11 7 years ago

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ForceFlow

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leon_Borre_Atari_Second_Generation_Repair

I almost forgot--there is also the Leon test ROM with some additional information:

However, I'm not sure how helpful it will be depending on which chips on the board are malfunctioning.

#12 7 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

8y 114K 8,041

Your best bet for electronic parts in Oz is rs components. Best part is they do free shipping with no minimum buy.
http://au.rs-online.com

They have these:
74LS164 --> 74LS164
74161 --> 74LS161
CD4066 --> CD4066 or 74HCT4066
74LS253 --> 74HC253
74LS393 --> 74LS393
74LS04 --> 74LS04
74LS86 --> 74LS86

Hard to know if the substitutes will work properly though.

Like ForceFlow said, it could literally be every chip that's gone worst case.
Are you at least getting correct power-supply voltages?

Also try contacting user Skybeaux on AussiePinball or AussieArcade forums who is your local respected board repair guy.

#13 7 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Quoted from Quench:
Your best bet for electronic parts in Oz is rs components. Best part is they do free shipping with no minimum buy.
http://au.rs-online.com
They have these:
74LS164 --> 74LS164
74161 --> 74LS161
CD4066 --> CD4066 or 74HCT4066
74LS253 --> 74HC253
74LS393 --> 74LS393
74LS04 --> 74LS04
74LS86 --> 74LS86
Hard to know if the substitutes will work properly though.
Like ForceFlow said, it could literally be every chip that's gone worst case.
Are you at least getting correct power-supply voltages?
Also try contacting user Skybeaux on AussiePinball or AussieArcade forums who is your local respected board repair guy.

Thanks for that. I do use RS for parts. I really don't know how they make any money on some sales but their free shipping is awesome.

I know Ken/Skybeaux very well and he is very adamant he will NOT touch Atari boards

8 months later

#14 7 years ago

BML

Casinorun

Pinside member

8y 35,300 133 3

Did you ever fix your Superman?

3 months later

#15 6 years ago

ADZ

ahdelarge

Pinside member

Wagga Wagga

12y 69,800 1,365 18

Yes, did you fix it???

#16 6 years ago

CBM

spfxted

Pinside member

Saddle River, NJ

12y 147K 24,661 4 9

Hmmmmmmm?

#17 6 years ago

???

Sinestro

Inactive member

Unknown

7y 59,400 2,410 1

Look around the bottom of the cab. Make sure there is no Krytonite rocks or fragments. That will kill Superman everytime.

k (resized).jpg

#18 6 years ago

ADZ

ahdelarge

Pinside member

Wagga Wagga

12y 69,800 1,365 18

Quoted from spfxted:
Hmmmmmmm?

OMG it's SPFXTed. Don't be alarmed, you were talking in my car this morning on the way to work. Very entertaining and insightful!

#19 6 years ago

CBM

spfxted

Pinside member

Saddle River, NJ

12y 147K 24,661 4 9

Thanks pal!

2 weeks later

#20 6 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Quoted from Casinorun:
Did you ever fix your Superman?

No it hasn't been fixed as yet. I do need to bite the bullet and send the board to the US to have someone look at it.

#21 6 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Quoted from ahdelarge:
Yes, did you fix it???

No. Gonna have to send it overseas which i am scared to do.

#22 6 years ago

???

Sinestro

Inactive member

Unknown

7y 59,400 2,410 1

OP
Quoted from Pintoxicated:
No. Gonna have to send it overseas which i am scared to do.

Put it in a box within a box within a box.

And track that baby!

#23 6 years ago

BML

Casinorun

Pinside member

8y 35,300 133 3

Send it to John Robertson in B.C Canada, look up "John Jukes".

#24 6 years ago

RAS

Raff

Pinside member

North Adelaide

9y 66,550 1,496 19 7

what state in aussie are you in

#25 6 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Quoted from Raff:
what state in aussie are you in

On the NSW/Vic border in Albury.

#26 6 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member

Quoted from Casinorun:
Send it to John Robertson in B.C Canada, look up "John Jukes".

I have been in touch with John. I will check a few things first and if I don't do any good I will probably have to send it over when I get some $$$ together.

#27 6 years ago

HBO

Luzur

Pinside member

8y 53,700 1,276 5

LOL, never do stuff like that with the game still plugged in

#28 6 years ago

ADZ

ahdelarge

Pinside member

Wagga Wagga

12y 69,800 1,365 18

OP
Quoted from Pintoxicated:
No. Gonna have to send it overseas which i am scared to do.

Scared? You've purchased a backglass from the U.S before. Braver man than I. We call it Schrodinger's Backglass. It's either broken or unbroken in the box when you open it.

#29 6 years ago

LEX

dluth

Pinside member

Melbourne

10y 53,300 662 10 18

Try John Dyason at Flipper Style Amusements in Melbourne. He's worked on a Superman recently I believe and is good with boards.

7 months later

#30 6 years ago

BMT

Pintoxicated

Pinside member