I replaced U20, U19 & U18 today. Installed (3) new sockets on CPU board & the IC's.
Now when I turn on the game, the CPU board boots (middle LED flashing, bottom light on solid, top light off).
No controlled lamps are coming on. No attract mode starts. When trying to use the coin door buttons to access settings, the choices were jumping all around on their own before but now they are totally non-responsive. I do have GI on. I get the Factory Default Restored message on DMD, but can't add credits thru coin door slots either.
So now I have no communication with the CPU board from the coin door switches.

I think I may have broken a trace to U20, as delicate as I was trying to be.
I'd like to pull the IC from U20 and use dvm to trace each run to find if I have a broken trace. I'm hoping it's only one, maybe two.
I've seen some beautiful schematics from ZaZa from time to time but not sure he or anyone has produced one for that.
I have the manual schematic in my PC but it's hard for me to read.

Maybe someone has another suggestion ? Happy 4th of July to ALL!!!

CuJo

Hi zaza,

Thanks for responding.

I have ran all those tests you suggested and here are the findings.

With Power Off:
==========
U16-Pink 5 to U15-Pink 5 has continutity.
So do the other 3 tests you suggested from U16 to U15.

Both Blue Squares on U16, U15 to GND SCREW have continuity.

Power On:
=======
NO 12V from U16 Yellow Square pin to GND SCREW.
Got 5V from all 4 Red Squares on U16 to GND SCREW.
Tested voltage from U16 Yellow Square pin to Blue Square pin on same IC & got 5V. (you didn't request this)

Grounded R36 (left side) to GND SCREW. Menu stepped on DMD.
Grounded U15 Pink8 to GND SCREW..Menu also stepped on DMD.
Grounded U16 Pink8 to GND SCREW..Menu also stepped on DMD.

I did have 3 balls shoot into the shooter lane and got a sound byte when leaning against the flipper button but
that was just a one time thing that happened while testing. So I powered off/on and resumed testing.

BTW, you schematics are AMAZING and easy to follow. Very Impressive!!!
And thanks for helping me thru some steps...

CuJo

Hi zaza,

Tests run.

Results:

Machine On.
12VDC at J210-6,7.

Machine off. Pull Connector J210.
No Short (continuity) between J210- 4&5 or J210- 6&7.

So likely a broken trace starting at U16 (yellow square-Pin 3) to ??

Thanks again for the next steps thru this troubleshooting!

Update:
=====

In the meantime, I tested for 12V on U17 (yellow box) as well and got nothing.
U19 (yellow box) DID have 12V to GND however.

Since all those IC's are socketed now, I'll pull U20 and U16 and run that continutity test on the topside pin sockets. Right?

Do I need to pull out the CPU board or undo some connectors to keep from getting a false reading?

Thanks!

Update:
=====

Pulled the U16 and U20 IC's and tested for continuity between U16-3 and U20-10.
Nothing, so I must be the guilty tracelifter.

I sort of remember the U20 had some extra what I thought was solder spinning around the topside base of hole U20-10?
Might have been another hole on U20 thou..sort of remember it being a corner topside hole.
So I took a pin and just kinda pulled it away, thinking it was excess solder..Oh boy..I'm learning. I'll be lucky if it's the only trace
I lifted.

So how do you suggest I repair? Small single strand jumper wire on the backside to see?

Thanks for sticking with this zaza!

Since the new 18 pin socket is pretty well entrenched in there, I'm going to try the single jumper wire on the back in the AM.

I had snipped out 5 IC's, cleaned out old solder and added fresh, solder sucked, installed 5 new IC sockets with a $30 Weller
soldering gun, a $5 solder sucker and the best light I could find to do the work. Also replaced 6-8 acid damaged resistors.

So if I get away with just the one bad trace, I'll be content.

You've been a great help zaza and I sure hope I didn't screw up any other traces. I'll let you know how it turns out.

CuJo

Update:
=====

Added the jumper wire on backside of CPU board between U20-10 & U16-3.
Tested for continuity on topside. Success.
Put board back in game, connect up battery & turn on pin.

Well, I thought all was going to be well but the same issue I was trying to fix re-surfaced.

When I open the coin door and try to access buttons, they sometimes will "double-press" or
jump around to other menu options on their own.

The buttons are always at least recognized when I press them but they have a mind of their own and I can't even get
to the free play menu option to set it.

So obviously replacing those 5 IC's , resistors did nothing to help the original cause.

zaza,
I don't know if you have any more advice for me to try at this point but your advice is welcome and appreciated.
Thank you.

CuJo

I tried jumping the orange wire on the black coin door switch to GND..it still alternates one beep or two beeps when tapped to GND.
It always tries to go into the HELP menu too.

I should be able to test those voltages in about an hr from now and report.

Thanks zaza.

Results:
=====
All the test points you indicated resulted in voltages varying between 10.88VDC - 11.34VDC.
90% of the readings would not settle down as a steady reading, partially due to probably the probe either being on the lead wire or the solder point on the board. Very hard to hold still leaning in. The ground was the lower right CPU MOUNT SCREW with an alligator clip lead.
Seems as the game was left on longer and I went back to re-check the same component voltage, it dropped maybe .2 - .3 VDC or so but it was across the board.

I don't know if this helps the diagnosis but before I got into this repair, I would get the COIN DOOR OPEN message on the DMD right in the middle of a game. It would play the three dongs you normally hear when you open the coin door but coin door was closed.
The message would disappear on it's own and the game would continue. Sometimes both flippers would flip on their own during this issue as well.

Thank you zaza.

Sure can.
I unplugged J133 thru J138 on powerdriver board & turned on pin.
Tried coin door buttons. Same problem as before.
I can press maybe 2 buttons at most, then it goes by itself to the HELP portion every time on the DMD. When I back out of the HELP w/ the innermost button (closest to inside of door), it'll back me out but then it'll go wacky again after one or two presses. I couldn't even get into STANDARD ADJUSTMENTS to set FREE PLAY.

I found something interesting. The board above the CPU board wasn't tightened down with any of the screws.
So I tightened them all down. Also the board to the right of it, above the driver board. The DMD driver board was tight.
It didn't make any difference when I turned on the pin and tried it.

So I've uploaded this short YouTube video so you can see how bizarre this
pin's behavior has become. Awaiting your thoughts zaza. I know it's a lot different than not seeing the game
in person so maybe this video will at least give you additional food for thought.

THANK YOU!

Link:

Sure. The board by the Tilt plumb ? or the actual plate with the 4 switches ?

Here the pics zaza...I thought I had found the issue. The spade connector had come off the upper door switch and was just touching the tip of the spade, possibly making the intermittent issues I was experiencing. I cleaned the lug, crimped the connector so it fit more snug.
Tried the game out. No difference...Same-o Same-o

PopeyeCDINTBRD (resized).jpg

Popeye DoorSwitch (resized).jpg

Hi zaza,

Update:
=====
I lost control of the coin door switches after power on..again this AM.
I tested TP3 on driver board: Got 11.63V
Also tested TP2 on driver board: Got 4.83V

I also tested for 12V on U16-Pin3 to GND screw and got 11.81VDC so jumper still providing the voltage there.

Not sure how I can run those other tests now...back peddle?

zaza,
Looking at some pics I took earlier I may need to test or replace U15 (see green pin corrosion).
Is there a way to test this chip in or out of the game?

U15_PopeyeCPU (resized).jpg

So test U15-1 to U15-19 and see if it "buzzes"?
With power off of course.

I also noticed this wire had broken off sometime earlier.
I may have done that when trying to add credits by toggling the spring wire since I couldn't get to FREE PLAY on the menu but I was careful so maybe it's been off. Never tried the other coin drop springy wire.

Can this effect anything that is happening?

Either way, I'll get it soldered on soon.

coindropswitch (resized).jpg

I soldered the black wire to where the other black wire went. Turned on pin.
Back to where I was at least.
Still playing the jumping double press thing game in the menus.
Always tries to take me to HELP topics. Backing out only helps temporarily then it'll do it again..and again.

Not sure if I tried everything you listed earlier...Will go back and see...

zaza,
I'm baffled at this point. Thanks for the help.
I think I am going to swap out the CPU board from my ST:TNG and see what happens.
Then at least I'll know if the issue is the CPU board or not.

Hi zaza,
Ran this test this AM. I left only J205 plugged in as you stated on that bottom group of connectors on CPU board.
Power on pin. Went into the menu system. No more button ghost hoping around on it's own! I have complete control of the menu
choices now.
Went into T.1, test all switches. As soon as I picked that option, in a couple seconds, I got the BALL LAUNCH #23 repeatedly flashing/beeping on screen on it's own. I could not press another switch to change the DMD screen from BALL LAUNCH #23.
I am attaching pics of the ball launch switch and the DMD error I got. I do believe it's getting narrowed down thanks to you.

Sorry I didn't get a chance to follow thru on this test earlier. You really are a fantastic wealth of knowledge on this!

PopeyeLauncherror (resized).jpg
Popeyelaunchbutton1 (resized).jpg
Popeyelaunchbutton2 (resized).jpg

Update: Even with the ball launch switch wires disconnected, I get the DMD ERROR #23 Ball Launch.
So I guess I have a short in the switch matrix ?

No, the 1st pic with the DMD showing Last SW 23 is with just J205 connected to the bottom of CPU board and
with the wires removed from the Ball Launch Switch (Green w/ red strip & white w/ orange stripe), I get that pulsing behavior.

True...is this becoming so involved that I may need a strobe/oscilloscope? If so, I may send it out for repair.
I love to learn and do repairs but this obviously may be getting over my head if I need to purchase test equipment.
Is this beyond testing now with a DVM or logic probe?
Thank you

Hi zaza,
Removed the (3) ribbon connectors designated in the green circles, left only J205 connected as it was already, booted pin.
It did take longer to "boot" up. Went to Test Menu T.1, Switch Test.
Got the same DMD error as before in the previous post #44 within a couple seconds. Pulsing without sound of course.

I had reconnected the (2) wires to the Ball Launch switch yesterday before running this test.

Maybe this Popeye should be rebranded "Twilight Zone!" (humor)

Just wanted to add that the ALL the playfield lamps are out and so is the G.I. when running this test.
Here's the actual pic of the DMD screen during this last test.

PopeyeDMD23 (resized).jpg

Results:
=====
Test all voltages marked in your pic.
All voltages present exactly as marked on your pic.

Measured 11.65V on top side of resistor below U18 and lower end of the two points measured 11.82V.

All the other voltage points were spot on.

Game off, installed ribbon connector J506, power on. Got to T.1 Test Switch.
Same DMD result.

Game off, installed ribbon connector J903, power on. Got to T.1 Switch test.
Same DMD result.

Game off, installed ribbon connector J211, power on. Go to T.1 Switch test.
Same DMD screen but pulsing a little slower than before.

All this with just the J205 connector still plugged in the bottom of CPU board.

Results:
=====
U13 Pin15 voltage: .67V (Bad? or possibly voltage to this IC has damaged trace?)

Yes, the ribbon cables were all re-installed before this test.
J205 is still the only connector on at the bottom of CPU board still.

Yes, SW#13 (Start Game) is SOLID and SW#23 is still PULSING during T.1 Switch Test and the only switches showing.

Results:
=====
R28 5V on Right Side
Confirmed 5V on U18-Pin2.

Turned off pin.
Check continuity between U18-2 & R28 Right Side: Success
Check continuity between R28 Right Side & U13-15: Failed!

I am very excited at this point but I'm having to go out to work for a few hours. I will pull the board when I get back and run the jumper or inspect/ repair the trace if possible...Trace is on backside of board?
Hoping this is all that's needed...
Thanks zaza!

In the meantime, zaza, do you remember this post you assisted with before 81 days ago now?
This has been one long on going project!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/popeye-switch-error-52-trough-2nd#post-3823934

Lot's of before pics of the CPU board front and back (good resolution) before I did all the work.

In fact, I replaced R27 and R28 as part of the repair.

Ok.now zaza....

RESULTS Are IN:
===========
Not good...???

I got the red wire jumpered on nicely and CPU board back in pin.
Pull connector J209 and make sure all other connectors are on to CPU board.
Turn on pin. Set Date/Time OK.
Go it T.1 Switch Test...
Run test clip lead from GND screw to all 8 pins on J209.
DMD screen shows ROW1, ROW2, ROW3 & ROW4 as Filled Horizontal Bar w/ GND SHORT message until probe released.
Touching J209-5 to GND didn't do anything on DMD.
J209-6 is KEY (no pin)
When touching J209-7 to GND, ROW6 Horizontal bar shows FILLED w/ GND SHORT message.
When touching J209-8 to GND, both ROWS 7 and 8 fill in on DMD w/ GND SHORT message.
When touching J209-9 to GND, both ROWS 7 and 8 fill in on DMD w/ GND SHORT message.

(Not sure I needed to GND J209-9 to GND)

Attached are two pics:
1 is the after my jumper wire repair (red wire)...it was a success. continuity established.
2 is the DMD before prob-ing all 9 pins on J209 to GND.

It appears there is one solid square still in there before I started. Normal?

PopeyeDMDbefore rowtest (resized).jpg

Popeyejumpwires (resized).jpg

next test column drives.
- attach one wire to row1 at J209-1
- and touch all pins at J207, one by one. It shows a single dot on the matrix table in display.

RESULTS:
======
After attaching a test clip lead to J209-1 and touching the other end of the lead to J207-1 thru 9:

Column 5 did not light up the single dot.
Columns 1 thru 4 did, 6 thru 8 did.

zaza,

Printed this out so I can study what to do first.

When you say measure, you mean continuity test?

You actually want me to test resistance value of R59 with DVM?

Here is a pic I took this AM after pulling the CPU board out with tape removed so you can inspect it more closely.

I will start those tests your proposed once you clarify the measure and resistance test.
I can do R59 ohm test while on the board?

Thanks!

popeyebacksidecpu (resized).jpg

RESULTS:
======
I marked up the schematics and scanned it in for the results. (see attachment)
I cut out R33 and replaced with new (see pic backside).
Unfortunately that trace on backside got broken so see my soldering handywork.
So no more short at R33/R34...

R59 OHM TEST RESULT: .996k Ohms (Horseshoe symbol)

Should I re-check all the continuities since I repaired R33/R34 short?

Scan.pdf
Popeyetracefix (resized).jpg

Something weird going on.
I check for short on the two thru Right Thru Holes after cutting out and cleaning the R33 hole..no short.
But after replacing the R33 with a new resistor, the short has returned...looks good on top and bottom so a little baffled.
Including pic of topside after repair too for your viewing pleasure..

popeyeR33 (resized).jpg

Yes, I butchered it up pretty bad. It seems liked it went so well until I took these close up pics. I'm not proud of this..
I've created a monster but there was some acid damage before I cleaned it up.
Not sure why R33/R34 only shorted once I installed the new resistor (R33).

Guess all I can do is try the three jumpers and discover why R33/R34 are still shorting.

Update:
=====
zaza,
I was able to fix the short under U19, Pin1 & 2. There was a piece of solder or metal that I was able to clear out with a long pin under the raised socket.
So now the short is gone between R33 & R34.
I am going to install those other three jumper wires and hope for the best at this point.
Thanks!

More Updates:
=========
I reflowed solder to U20-5 backside of board and it re-established continuity to U14-19.
Ran jumper wire from R31 (RT side from component side) to U19-13 and test continuity. OK now.

Only question I have now is the continuity test from J208-5 to SPOT5 on your sketch.

I can tone out from J208-5 to the south end of Diode #7 but not above it like in your sketch.
This area on the back of board looks ok (no damage)

Can you elaborate on this test as there is no SPOT 5 on the front side of the CPU board even though I can speculate where it is.
THANKS!

Update:
=====
"That's all I can stands, cuz I can't stands n'more!"
"A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah!"

Well good thing because NOW the CPU board is in with it's 4 patchwork quilt jumper wires, busted thru holes, etc. etc. and WORKING!
!! Cause I was getting a little distraught how tedious & mind numbing soldering repairs can be!

Popeye is NOT just working, but working flawlessly (so far). Been over an hour now.

My girlfriend on her way over to test it out. She's the best tester of all!!!

I ran the SWITCH TEST T.1. No issues..
I set the date/time/ball save to 8 seconds.
It is looking promising as the menus are NOT bouncing around on the DMD anymore so:

BIG THANKS to ZAZA for staying in touch and seeing me thru this 72 message thread!
Also his amazing schematics and knowledge of troubleshooting!!! Incredible resource of knowledge!
He doesn't have to do what he does but he does it anyway for the love of pinball and helping others!

I guess I can consider this thread finished..Until Next Time:

"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam."

Signed,
CuJo

Update: Played 6 games for over 1 hr. Not a missed beat!!

I was thinking I'd never overcome the acid damage this board took on and my $39 Weller Soldering Gun skills sitting over a kitchen table lamp squinting to see those pins to solder/jumper.

But it was well worth it. I learned something about switch signals and CPU board operations thanks to zaza!

I really think one of the main issues, but not the only one, was that short between R33/R34 (double bar rows on DMD test)?
I tested R33 on the OHM test on the DVM after snipping it out and got no reading at all on it.

zaza, I raise my glass to you for all you help!