I killed my F-14 Tomcat! *Update, 200$ later its fixed

Really screwed this up. I will try to go in order of what happened. I was trying to find a good supply for 12V on my rotten dog power supply board. I was getting a strange test from a connector labeled 12V, I unplugged it and saw that the pin from the board was cut, and thats why the DMM was not reading 12V correctly.

Now I know what I did next was super wrong, with the power on I tried to plug the connector back in, but it is not keyed properly so I shifted everything over on the connector one spot to the left. Big Buzz, smelled like smoke, turned machine off real fast. I plugged the connector back in correctly and turned the machine on and the displays were all dead. I turned back off, and checked the fuses and one was totally blown. I replaced it turned machine back on and now MORE sizzle and spark! Turned machine off again and very afraid to turn it on.

Really bummed, have no idea what to do now, very afraid to turn machine on. Please help. First pic is the connector I plugged in wrong. Second pic on the far right is the fuse I replaced. I do not have schematics for the rotten dog power supply BTW.

#2 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

pics

WP_000077.jpg WP_000078.jpg

#3 10 years ago

ZPY

zippydapinhead

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
I do not have schematics for the rotten dog power supply BTW.

Are RD schematics available? The Dr Who I just picked up has a couple RD boards and I would love to get the details on them, as I am sure to need them at some point.

#4 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from zippydapinhead:
Are RD schematics available?

I just found them http://rottendog.us/schematics.html

#5 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Second visual inspection, still have not turned game on, clearly this has been damaged.

WP_000079.jpg

#6 10 years ago

ZPY

zippydapinhead

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
I just found them http://rottendog.us/schematics.html

Found that, but my boards aren't listed. Looking for parts list and schematics for
Part Number DMD089 and MPU089
Don't mean to hijack your thread. Wish I could help you but have no experience with RD's.
Sure someone will chime in with help.
Good luck!

#7 10 years ago

WIL

pinwillie

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from zippydapinhead:
my boards aren't listed

click on products on the black bar at the top of page

#8 10 years ago

ZPY

zippydapinhead

Inactive member

Quoted from pinwillie:
click on products on the black bar at the top of page

Did that, just product description - no schematic or parts list that I could find for those two items

#9 10 years ago

ROB

Borygard

Unfortunately besides the power supply that's now damaged, your display board set is very likely fried as well. Replacing just the power supply will very likely take it out again. An expensive lesson, but looks like you're going to be out a display set and power supply.

You may be able to get away with using the same power supply (minus the HV fuse you replaced) and an LED replacement display set, since the LED set won't use the HV.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#10 10 years ago

ZPY

zippydapinhead

Inactive member

Quoted from Borygard:
Unfortunately besides the power supply that's now damaged, your display board set is very likely fried as well. Replacing just the power supply will very likely take it out again. An expensive lesson, but looks like you're going to be out a display set and power sup

Big ouch!

#11 10 years ago

ESP

policano

East Side Pinball

Saint Paul, MN

11y 72,900 1,777 19 23

#12 10 years ago

DCK

burningman

Pinside member

Vero Beach, FL

11y 86,550 3,218 9

Best of luck getting this corrected Steve...

#13 10 years ago

MAB

DeathHimself

Pinside+ Frequent

Staten Island, NY

11y 101K 4,358

I know it's a bit too late to mention this now, but before you remove a plug and whether it's key'd or not get a sharpie and make a fine line down the plug to and on the pin base as well, just use one pin as a reference this way when you plug it back up you can't go wrong going line to line.

#14 10 years ago

WIL

pinwillie

Pinside+ Frequent

Oh sh!t !!! Sorry to hear about this Steve.
Maybe a fellow pinsider has an extra display or PS they are willing to donate.

#15 10 years ago

WIL

pinwillie

Pinside+ Frequent

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system11-mystery-wire-and-missing-connections-plus-lighting#post-902226

looks like MattG may have a display

OP
Quoted from MattG:
Also, if anyone needs a system11 display with a blown P1 glass let me know!

#16 10 years ago

MAT

MattG

Rage Tilt Pinball

Philadelphia, PA

10y 41,050 257 5 15

Quoted from pinwillie:
looks like MattG may have a display

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system11-mystery-wire-and-missing-connections-plus-lighting#post-902226

I just passed it along to someone else, sorry

#17 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from Borygard:
Unfortunately besides the power supply that's now damaged, your display board set is very likely fried as well. Replacing just the power supply will very likely take it out again. An expensive lesson, but looks like you're going to be out a display set and power supply.

You may be able to get away with using the same power supply (minus the HV fuse you replaced) and an LED replacement display set, since the LED set won't use the HV.

Ugh, I think I am going to be sick! This is the worst possible news. I know you are very kowledgable about this stuff Rob, so you are saying that the power supply is worthless and will only work if I get LED displays? Is it not fixable?

#18 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from Borygard:
nfortunately besides the power supply that's now damaged, your display board set is very likely fried as well. Replacing just the power supply will very likely take it out again. An expensive lesson, but looks like you're going to be out a display set and power supply.

Also am I just replacing the displays, or the display driver board as well?

#19 10 years ago

JAM

Wolfmarsh

Pinside member

12y 134K 10,956

Ouch man, that sucks.

Personally, I would try to repair the power board before I replaced anything.

I'd replace that transistor and see if I can get the board to output the right voltages again (without the display hooked up).

Steve, I also have a display board D-11610 from my F-14 that I am replacing with an xPin. It's got a short in the Player 1 display, so segments a and h come on together, but other than that its perfect. You could buy this one and then put one of the alpha displays from your board in the player 1 spot and have a fully working board. I've 100% confirmed the short on my board is actually in the player 1 glass.

If you want to work something out, PM me.

#20 10 years ago

ROB

Borygard

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
Ugh, I think I am going to be sick! This is the worst possible news. I know you are very kowledgable about this stuff Rob, so you are saying that the power supply is worthless and will only work if I get LED displays? Is it not fixable?

Definitely not saying the power supply is worthless. Anything is repairable.

I think your least costly, troublesome, solution would be an LED display set. No need to repair the current power supply, and no need to worry about the original display's condition. Both can certainly be repaired, but in a case like this, if you repair one, and not completely repair the other, you can very easily take out both again. Can be quite the "casing your tail" situation.

The display set may be fine, but if you plug it into a good game, you're very likely to take out the power supply. In my experience, this kind of damage shorts several ICs on the display board, some of these are $30 chips now, so repair will very quickly approach the cost of a replacement set.

Just be very careful with whatever you decide to do. One of these damaged boards can take out others if not repaired properly.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#21 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Pm sent wolfmarsh.

#22 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from Borygard:
Just be very careful with whatever you decide to do. One of these damaged boards can take out others if not repaired properly.

Ok, thank you very much Rob. Let me lay it down one more time so I am clear, I dont want to do anymore damage.

Option 1: Buy Wolfmarsh's used display set, but I have to buy a completely new power supply (which cost about 100$ I think).

Option 2: Buy a new LED display and my power supply will work as-is? Even with that transistor completely toasted in the pic above? I know you do board work, how much would it cost approx to get my power supply fixed if it needs to be with LED displays? I can email you if you don't want to say in the thread.

Thank you for all the help.

#23 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Also could I have ruined anything else, like the CPU board? I see that the connector I plugged back in wrong was going to the display so thats definitely toast, but the last time I turned the machine on it made a sizzle and spark with more burning smell. Is there some stuff I could unplug so I can see if everything else besides the displays work?

So nervous about all of this.

#24 10 years ago

ZPY

zippydapinhead

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
So nervous about all of this.

Man I feel bad for you, having one of your babies down cause you were installing a cool new mod for it blows, not the way you want upgrades to go.

#25 10 years ago

ROB

Borygard

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
Also could I have ruined anything else, like the CPU board? I see that the connector I plugged back in wrong was going to the display so thats definitely toast, but the last time I turned the machine on it made a sizzle and spark with more burning smell. Is there some stuff I could unplug so I can see if everything else besides the displays work?
So nervous about all of this.

CPU is likely OK. Remove the connector you misplaced and the fuse that blew and power on. The CPU should boot and you should see the center CPU LED flash rapidly and the feature lights on the playfield cycle in attract mode.

A new or repaired power supply and good display set should get you back to normal. As well as your current PS (minus that HV fuse) and a new LED display set should get you to running again too.

Repair of the PS shouldn't take much, but I'm not likely your guy at the moment, since my backlog is very large right now. Repair of the display set probably isn't a good idea, since as I mentioned the cost could very easily approach or exceed the cost of a replacement.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#26 10 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

12y 97,050 6,031 10

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:
Ouch man, that sucks.
Personally, I would try to repair the power board before I replaced anything.
I'd replace that transistor and see if I can get the board to output the right voltages again (without the display hooked up).

+1

#27 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from zippydapinhead:
Man I feel bad for you, having one of your babies down cause you were installing a cool new mod for it blows, not the way you want upgrades to go

yeah, really regretting that stupid light up shooter rod, feel like throwing it in the river!

#28 10 years ago

DMB

PismoArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

St. George, UT

12y 143K 4,103 3 134

Wow Steve...That sucks.

Hope you get it fixed without many more problems or $.

#29 10 years ago

ROB

Borygard

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
yeah, really regretting that stupid light up shooter rod, feel like throwing it in the river!

Why? What did the shooter rod do?

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#30 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Lake Stevens, WA

11y 41,650 270 3 6

Quoted from Borygard:
Why? What did the shooter rod do?

Get the feeling this is what started his investigation for finding a 12v lead off his power board.

Understand that frustration though.

#31 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from PismoArcade:
Wow Steve...That sucks.

Hope you get it fixed without many more problems or $.

Thanks buddy

Quoted from Borygard:
CPU is likely OK. Remove the connector you misplaced and the fuse that blew and power on. The CPU should boot and you should see the center CPU LED flash rapidly and the feature lights on the playfield cycle in attract mode.

Thank you for this, I will test when I go home tonight. I will feel much better knowing it is only the display I killed and nothing else. I should be able to start and play a game I assume, just will have no displays. Am I correct in this?

Quoted from Borygard:
Why? What did the shooter rod do?--

Shooter rod actually did nothing. What happened was I was looking for some 12V to tap into to power it, I was using my DMM testing the connector that said 12V but was not getting a 12V reading. I unplugged the connector to see why and saw that the 12V pin was cut down to the board and not going into the connector (there was no wire on the connector, that's why I thought it would be a good place to tap into for the shooter rod.) That's when I plugged the connector back in wrong and blew it all to hell. There was no key in the connector to prevent this. You better believe I plan on buying a hundred of those so I can go through and make sure all connectors are keyed properly from now on.

Thank you again Rob. I will sing your praises from now on.

#32 10 years ago

ASW

awarner

Pinside member

Cumming, GA

11y 79,550 2,050 19 37

You could also contact Jim Knight about the Rottondog board since he designed it. Really nice guy (as is my buddy Rob Anthony). His number is on the Rottondog website.

#33 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from awarner:
You could also contact Jim Knight about the Rottondog board since he designed it. Really nice guy (as is my buddy Rob Anthony). His number is on the Rottondog website.

Thank you sir.

#34 10 years ago

WIL

pinwillie

Pinside+ Frequent

Well Steve ... what is the update on getting your game running again

#35 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from pinwillie:
Well Steve ... what is the update on getting your game running again

Nothing yet, have been at work all day. Plan is to go home unplug the display and remove that fuse and turn it on and hope for the best. I will feel 1000 times better if the game turns on and works other than the display. Everyone pray to Steve Ritchie that the display is the only thing I killed.

Still weighing the options as to what to do about the display. Wolfmarsh offered his up for sale to me, but I would have to replace some of the glass on mine with his as his has some issues. Also would have to get the power board fixed or replaced.

Right now I am leaning toward Borygards suggestion of the LED display. I thought they were more expensive than they are, but they are about 200$ which is a costly mistake to be sure, but at least that way I can be excited about a newer LED display. Gonna mull it over, Marco is out of stock right now anyway but plan to have more in soon.

This will all go down the toilet if I turn the game on at home and its totally crapped out. I will update tonight once I check. This is killing me.

#36 10 years ago

PAB

MustangPaul

LED Leg Light-Ups

Saint Paul, MN

11y 136K 23,313 10

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
Nothing yet, have been at work all day. Plan is to go home unplug the display and remove that fuse and turn it on and hope for the best. I will feel 1000 times better if the game turns on and works other than the display. Everyone pray to Steve Ritchie that the display is the only thing I killed.
Still weighing the options as to what to do about the display. Wolfmarsh offered his up for sale to me, but I would have to replace some of the glass on mine with his as his has some issues. Also would have to get the power board fixed or replaced.
Right now I am leaning toward Borygards suggestion of the LED display. I thought they were more expensive than they are, but they are about 200$ which is a costly mistake to be sure, but at least that way I can be excited about a newer LED display. Gonna mull it over, Marco is out of stock right now anyway but plan to have more in soon.
This will all go down the toilet if I turn the game on at home and its totally crapped out. I will update tonight once I check. This is killing me.

and the good thing about going with the led display is that the power consumption of the game will go down which will help your game live longer and your electric bill will be less...unless when you get it fixed you don't spend extra time playing it. Always look on the bright side maman.

#37 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from MustangPaul:
Always look on the bright side maman.

Trying to! Right now its tough.

#38 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Small victory! Unplugged connector and removed fuse and everything but display on game works! Feel 1000% better, still mad I killed the display but this is doable, expensive but doable.

#39 10 years ago

WIL

pinwillie

Pinside+ Frequent

http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=BAA&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=XP-WMS11610-O

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
Small victory!

yeahh!!!

BAA has this in stock. Is this the display being recommended

#40 10 years ago

UUG

minnesota13

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 61,650 1,474

Another approach is to sell your current display and not replace it with an original as has been previously suggested. It is inevitable that one the displays is going to out on any original display panel. The price of a new 7 digit display is I believe around $60 or so, for either the numeric or alpha numeric. Given your old displays are not damaged and only the driver circuit is smoked someone may elect to purchase your old panel to keep their old displays working.

With the LED displays, the high voltage is not needed and repairing the high voltage section of your smoked power supply doesn't have to be done if you go to LED displays. This is the point that Rob was making.

You would eventually would have to do something with the displays because these are on their way to going bad anyway. I have lost a couple of displays on my F14 but I can't go to LED displays because I have an early production version with a different display panel design.

#41 10 years ago

PAB

MustangPaul

LED Leg Light-Ups

Saint Paul, MN

11y 136K 23,313 10

OP
Quoted from practicalsteve:
Small victory! Unplugged connector and removed fuse and everything but display on game works! Feel 1000% better, still mad I killed the display but this is doable, expensive but doable.

That's great. I think that's a BIG victory.

#42 10 years ago

LKD

Luckydogg420

Pinside member

Kitchener, ON

11y 115K 5,862 14

Quoted from minnesota13:
I have lost a couple of displays on my F14 but I can't go to LED displays because I have an early production version with a different display panel design.

Pinscore has displays for early f14 games

http://www.pinscore.com/component/content/article/14-williams-f-14-tomcat

#43 10 years ago

PBC

Pinballerchef

Pinside member

New Windsor, MD

12y 79,300 2,860 10

Man what a mess!! As I stare at my f14 in fully working condition I feel for you....EFF that shooter rod!! I have a new set of pinscore LED displays in mine after one gassed out...and they work just fine. It's a worthy investment as they look brighter and cleaner....plus will last you your lifetime. Just plunk down the cash and don't look back!

#44 10 years ago

ROB

Borygard

If you can't find anyone with an LED set for F-14, I'm pretty sure I have some. Even in alternate colors red, green, and blue.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#45 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from minnesota13:
Another approach is to sell your current display and not replace it with an original as has been previously suggested.

Now that is a good idea!

Quoted from Borygard:
If you can't find anyone with an LED set for F-14, I'm pretty sure I have some. Even in alternate colors red, green, and blue.

Quoted from pinwillie:
BAA has this in stock. Is this the display being recommended

Thank you for looking out Pinwille and Borygard! I forgot about xpin. Glad to see them at BAA as well since they said they would ship my next order free!

#46 10 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

I've put the blue displays in a bunch of F-14s and they look super cool.

Highly recommended if it does not have to look stock.

#47 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Quoted from vid1900:
I've put the blue displays in a bunch of F-14s and they look super cool.

Highly recommended if it does not have to look stock.

Thanks for the advice, too bad those cost 100$ extra! I bet they look great though, if I had the money I would but as it is orange will have to do.

#48 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Books spoken for.

#49 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve

Next are posters from sadly the last PPE. Printed on nice heavy 14pt cardstock suitable for framing. I have two available.

Asking 8$ each.

DSC_1580.JPG

#50 10 years ago

SEF

practicalsteve