(Topic ID: 162683)

I just came home with my first EM..

By Luzur

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by wizardblom
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#1 7 years ago

And it is a "Williams Jubilee" from 1972, bought it for 120 USD from a young man that had started to clean it but given up, it is working condition and needs a clean-up but the bad news is the backglass, its got a big chunk of it missing since probably the last 15 years or so.

Does anyone have a backglass pic in Translite quality to share?

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#5 7 years ago

Yeah, first thing i did was to clean off this ancient, dried-out, thick brown tape from the upper part of the backglass somebody had wrapped around it to protect from getting their hands cut, luckily no paint fell off during the process.

The rest of it is just cabinet paint job, the playfield looks A-OK, just some minor, barely noticable touch-ups.

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#6 7 years ago

The young man i got it from bought it from a older guy that had gotten the game from his pals for his 40th birthday as a prank

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Are those metal 3" flippers!?

Yep, dunno if original but those are Williams metal flippers.

Anyway, me and my friend looked into the machine today, and found the original manual folder with lots of stuff (i also found 2 of those banana flippers from Time Warp and/or Disco Fever which i gave to him since he owns a Time Warp, no clue why those where even in this machine..) and extra fuses.

The chime mechanism is all gone though, and seems to have been for a long time since the cables that hooked it up have rusted (?) on the ends, dunno if im gonna fix that somehow or let it be, the game works fine anyway.

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#11 7 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

I like this part:
“I just came home with my *FIRST* EM..”
Better make some space

Hehe, well i doubt i will be building a whole pinball lounge with them, but for 120 USD for a working pinball and just a few mile from me it was a pure steal, simply couldnt be passed up.

Anyway, i think i have encountered a first problem, the Player 1 counter doesnt seem to count up to more then 9999, the fifth wheel doesnt seem to click over to 10000.

also, ive checked out the flippers too, seems to be original Williams flippers, but made out of metal and with a brass rod, dunno how i would see if its "home-made" or not, it looks pretty much like the plastic Williams flippers to me, even the rubbers fit perfectly fine.

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#16 7 years ago
Quoted from fiberdude120:

Are you sure they are metal or just chrome over plastic ?

LOL, i just too one apart for you guys, its metal all the way through.

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#18 7 years ago

It doesnt look home-made either, but factory made.

#21 7 years ago

Well, i had to change those for 2 ordinary white flippers, these where so badly worn on the rod that they couldnt be set properly, but i'll keep them and change the rod.

Anyway, does anyone have a good pic of the missing part for my backglass or the whole thing so i can print a translite piece? I know a guy that can fix the glass but i need the printed part too...

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#22 7 years ago

Well, just now when i started it the 15A fuse popped and every lamp in the backbox also popped (except those in the score sections, only the GI and those above the score wheels popped, funny enough), is this a serious problem somewhere or just "something that happens-switch everything out to new lamps and it is fine" deal?

Also, can i switch to LED's in the backbox on these to reduce the toll on the GI?

I have no clues about EM games.

#24 7 years ago

Yeah but i only had those 2 flippers in stock so they will have to do

And no, they didnt explode, every GI lamp in the back box popped/died/burned off (im a swede, gimme a break on all the hip pinball slang you guys use int he States LOL) along with the upper fuse in the cab (15A).

Well i switched every broken lamp and put in my last 15 A fuse and now they all shined up brightly then the fuse popped again when i pressed the left flipperbutton to initiate the lights.

Must be a lampscoket somewhere in the backbox thats gone bad or soemthing, since all the cables are chekced so they dont touch anything.

#28 7 years ago

Thing is, it seems to be somewhere on the GI line, the score lights doesnt seem to be affected at all, its just the ones in the middle of the backbox + the ones above the wheels.

But i'll have to buy more 15A fuses before i try EMsInkC's test tip, im out and got only 10A or 16ASB's

Added a pic of the backbox, the red circle is the lamps that "pop" with the fuse, the greens dont.

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#30 7 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Maybe whatever broke that backglass also bent and shorted something out? Maybe...

Well, the game have worked just fine since i got it home 2 weeks ago, this just started today in the middle of the first game, i suspect i would have had this problem right from the start if it was something that the backglas did.

Besides the crashed backglass happened probably some 15-20 years ago, considering the brown tape i removed from the backglas was in severe decaying condition.

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Is only the fuse blowing, or are all the lamps blowing out as well? I had a similar issue years ago with a Williams "Big Deal". All the GI lamps blew out. I was lucky that I quickly found that the GI circuit had found a path to the 24V solenoid power through one of those finishing nails under the slingshot plastics! Once I corrected that and replaced all of the GI lamps, it was good to go.

Well, the first time it was all those bulbs in the red AND the fuse, now the fuse pops as soon as i hit the left flipper button (i event ried with a 16 A fuse, sicne i dont have any 15A, still popped) , dont even have time to put in bulbs

Thing is, its only the GI in the backbox that does this, not the playfield.

#37 7 years ago

So i got to follow the GI cable all the way then? Well i figured the upper fuse deals with the GI, since that is the one that pops.

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Whole thing is so weird since it worked perfectly for days, even when dragged around, lifted etc, then when its put it a good corner and left alone and started up on the 3rd day it just breaks like this LOL

#38 7 years ago

Been trudging around inside the cabinet abit, and found 2 weird...stuffs.

1. two switches dont have anything connected to them anymore, but i cant find any loose cables either around them, what gives?

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2. This coil seems.... crispy compared to the others. Dunno if it works or not, havent checked it, but could it be dead?

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#39 7 years ago

Well, been searching around for a couple of hours now (sodlering some cracked points, 2 loose cables ont he 100 points relays and minor stuff) and maybe found a culprit to the short, i found a spacer that laid across two contacts on the second main plug in the backbox (where the cable from the cab plugs into) and well.... now the 15A 24Volt fuse blows right when i hit the ON/OFF switch instead of the 15A 6Volt when i hit the left flipper button, which is...progress, i guess.

According to the manual that one is for the "Bridge Rectifier":

"IF, HOWEVER, THE 15AMP 24 VOLT FUSE ON THE MECHANISM PANEL OPENS, IT COULD BE DUE TO A FAULTY RECTIFIER."

Have the Rectifier been fried now or do i have some more serious short somewhere? Seriously i have no goddamn clue anymore what is going on, ive checked every damn connection, cable, contact and metal part in the backbox + those "open air" GI metal wire the lamps are soldered on, and nowhere is anything contacting now AFAIK.

Geez naturally it had get a electrical problem of all problems to get, my biggest weakness, right after i get it cheap. *throws hands up in the air*

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Now, do i dare put a 16A SB fuse in that place (only ones i got home atm) or should i wait on further experiments until i get 15A fuses?

#42 7 years ago

Well, it goes..somewhere, dunno where though, there are some cables thats been done in plastic rather then "cloth" like the other ones.

Also, had to redo the "info part" on the fuse box, it smudged when i was there changing fuses.

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I havent touched anything there except the fuses + made a new Fuse info piece.

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

The fuse fault due to faulty rectifier is referring to a bridge rectifier that may exist on your game tonconvert the flipper power from AC to DC.
Look online or at clays guides on how to diagnose a bad rectifier. You'll need a multimeter that can read diodes.

So, it can be that that is causing it aswell? I have a Caltek Instrument CM1100 multimeter, with diod function so no worries there, but i kinda need to know where and what to measure.

And i believe its this one i found on the underside of the gamefield, though i might be wrong:

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This one is named "Bridge Rectifier 26MB20-4C International Rectifier", hopefully its a common one.

#46 7 years ago

Well, did the rectifier test now:

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Although as said this isnt "under stress" so i dunno if these readings have any real answer here.

#48 7 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

.400 to .600 is considered in range.
That would point you away from the bridge being bad.

Well it could still be bad under stress though, where can i find a replacement (ive googled the IR number but to no avail) just in case i need to switch it out.

#49 7 years ago

Well i looked abit closer at that crispy loking solenoid (Lock Relay Z-29-1250), and it pretty much came apart when i touched it.

So i desoldered it and found crispy chunks of plastics and wrapping under it. I dunno but i guess this could be the buzzing sound i heard during the same game the GI lights died in...

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Also, this solenoid looks kinda crispy too, dunno what it named or really what it does except moving the wheels that flips those huge switch collections.

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#51 7 years ago

Ah, i see, well im buying a new one anyway, and im heading into town tomorrow to get more 15A fuses, so i can test out that "1 bulb at a time" test you guys hinted me of.

I am kinda hunting blind here so i have to check every way, too bad the nearest (and only i think) pinball store in Sweden was totally out of the lampsocket version i needed, typical, have to order from Germany.

#54 7 years ago
Quoted from wizardblom:

Look for a shorted contact in the backbox on the replay unit.
Sometimes it has been forced through, making a short with the 24 V for the replay button and 6 V on the credit light.
Happens quite often on home-used machines, people trying to get the machine on free play.

This do remind me, the previous owner mentioned that there have been a "free play" mod done to it, somewhere in the back box, but im not sure where, although ive noticed this blue cable sodlered on by the credit wheel, can that be it?

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#57 7 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

If it bridges a switch, then (extremely likely) yes.

Yes it does, a blue cable soldered between 2 switches in the back box.

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Quoted from wizardblom:

Can you make a close-up photo of the contactset?
That's the one I mean...

You mean these? I have no clue where the "Replay Connector" is, barely no labels left on anything in the backbox.

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#59 7 years ago
Quoted from wizardblom:

It is not the sight I wanted to see.
The credit unit is not on the blank (0).
To get it there: unscrew one of the screws and get it out, then unloosen the other one and turn the contactset to the right.
Reset the wheel with the small coil till it gets to the zero.
Then you know that the two contact on the top will not touch each other causing the short over the 6 V system that (maybe) resulted in blowing out the illuminated lights.
If the machine still blows the lights out it will be a short in one of the lampholders, which would be strange, most of the time it only blows that one and the fuse.

Ok, i resetted the wheel, so it stands on "blank" now (there is no 0 on it, it ends on 1) and i took a couple of pic of how it looks now.

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Should i desolder the credit mod if that is making the short?

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#60 7 years ago

Progress report:

The new solenoid got home today so i replaced the old broken one and soldered it, i also removed that "free play mod" and bent the switches right, and now the game atleast starts again without taking the fuse or the lamps in the backbox, but the thing is now it start directly into the "ready" mode, skipping the "Press left flipper to start the lights up" part, and if i manually add coins, it starts to buzz REAL loud when i click the switch the second time (i shut the game off immediatly both times).

Now, why does the game sjip the "press left flipper to start" part suddenly, and why doesnt it want to start a new game? is there some other solenoid/switch thats shorted?

#62 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

your lock relay switches are off on the lock coil / stack you just replaced. That controls the lights/game on when left flipper pressed
--Jef

Uhm, i hope that is easy fixable?

#64 7 years ago

Well i just looked in the cab with the game on and the LOCK Relay instantly goes right when ON/OFF is switched ON, so you are right, but what cause this?

According to my Manual it says:

"Lock Relay
is energized by 5c relay, left flipper switch or score motor cam switch 5 A"

is Score motor switch 5A the culprit for this new error? Where do i find Score Motor Switch 5A then? also, cant i just remove the Lock relay altogether and fix the switches together, since from what i understand the Lock Relay just makes the machine into Game Over mod if you shut it off during a game so the next guy wont get a free game?

Also would need a new free play mod of somesort sicne i removed the old one.

#66 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

first make sure your switch on the flipper is not closed.
then make sure the coin mech isnt actuated
only then should you look at the score motor. Normally you shouldnt need to adjust it if the machine has been working fine
--Jeff

Well, ive messed around in the backbox at the credit wheel, and it seems one of the switches never touched eachother, so i fixed that and now the "press left flipper to get to attract mode " works again, but i cant start a game or add in coins to get credits, the coins just flops down into the mechanism and stays there not doing anything until i press the Coin return pin, and if i manually flip the coin switch 2 times something starts fiercely buzz in the cab somewhere, but i still cant start a game.

And i checked the flipper switch, its not closed together.

EDIT: i found some pics from a Williams Skylab credit wheel setup, and noticed that the poles on the wheel on my Jubilee was way too close to let the credit wheel spin correctly to 0, so i changed that, but it didnt matter since the game wont do anything when the start button is pressed, i even tried putting the credit to 0 and resoldering the credit mod cable back, still nothing, its like the game refuse to go into start/reset mode when the start button is pressed. I have to..i dunno manually press the reset switch inside the cab or something tomorrow.

#67 7 years ago

Been pressing switches now around in the game, and the most progress i get is that some of them will lock on and then start to seriously buzz.

The score reel works though, if i press the point switches in the back box, also the knocker fires if it push on the solenoid on the credit wheel, and the game do start up with all the lights and also the "press the left flipper button to get to attract mode" works now and the Lock Realy jumps into life when its pressed, but nothing much else happens with anything else. I am at a total loss here what is causing it to not do atleast something when credited up or coined up.

*sigh* i could probably use it as a lighted up worktable or something, or sell it as is.

#69 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

you will need to get a schematic and trace the path that lets the game start up.
Otherwise its just guessing. you "might" be able to look at a jubilee schematic too
they key to fixing something like this is to focus on one issue and systematically work thru the schematic to track down the problem.
--Jeff

I have a big original 3 meters long schematics but i cant make heads or tails of it.

#70 7 years ago

Now, i just noticed and remebered something, earlier i found this switch way back inside the cab that was missing cables, and when i push the coin up switch on the coin door the solenoid underneath it activates, maybe the game cant see im coining it up since there are like 2 conenctions without anything on it?

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Also, how are these switches on the credit reel supposed to be, closed or open?

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#71 7 years ago

Well, i started to reconnect the cables on the switch in the back of the cab, and discovered a very odd rewire job that leads all the way up to the coindoor.

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Had to make a little map over it all, too complicated to describe accurately, now, what is this?

also there is abunch of cut cables that where taped together on the coindoor with electrical tape:

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Now, all of them leads to the 2 contacts on the right of the picture, but since they arent conencted to anything they dont do anything AFAIK.

#73 7 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

I usually use a hammer for fine switch adjustments too.

heh, i used it to hold up the switch section on the score motor.

#74 7 years ago

Well bros Jubilee is fixed! a cable on the Advance unit and a leaf switch on the bonus switch setup was broken off on the underside of the playfield, i soldered them on and now everything works!

Thank you all guys! You all deserve a big broslap on the ass for your help!

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