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(Topic ID: 162683)

I just came home with my first EM..


By Luzur

4 years ago



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  • 75 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by wizardblom
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There are 75 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

And it is a "Williams Jubilee" from 1972, bought it for 120 USD from a young man that had started to clean it but given up, it is working condition and needs a clean-up but the bad news is the backglass, its got a big chunk of it missing since probably the last 15 years or so.

Does anyone have a backglass pic in Translite quality to share?

IMG_2166_(resized).JPG

#2 4 years ago

Here are some reference pics from a machine I used to own

https://goo.gl/photos/c68FuLxEt67rAcCNA

-Jeff

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

the bad news is the backglass

*stares at backglass for five minutes, not seeing any major paint loss*

Quoted from Luzur:

its got a big chunk of it missing

...oh.

#4 4 years ago

Congrats! Good deal

#5 4 years ago

Yeah, first thing i did was to clean off this ancient, dried-out, thick brown tape from the upper part of the backglass somebody had wrapped around it to protect from getting their hands cut, luckily no paint fell off during the process.

The rest of it is just cabinet paint job, the playfield looks A-OK, just some minor, barely noticable touch-ups.

IMG_2167_(resized).JPG

#6 4 years ago

The young man i got it from bought it from a older guy that had gotten the game from his pals for his 40th birthday as a prank

#7 4 years ago

Are those metal 3" flippers!?

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Are those metal 3" flippers!?

Yep, dunno if original but those are Williams metal flippers.

Anyway, me and my friend looked into the machine today, and found the original manual folder with lots of stuff (i also found 2 of those banana flippers from Time Warp and/or Disco Fever which i gave to him since he owns a Time Warp, no clue why those where even in this machine..) and extra fuses.

The chime mechanism is all gone though, and seems to have been for a long time since the cables that hooked it up have rusted (?) on the ends, dunno if im gonna fix that somehow or let it be, the game works fine anyway.

IMG_2168_(resized).JPG

#9 4 years ago

I've never seen 3" metal flippers before. Try to determine if they are original, or some type of homemade part.

#10 4 years ago

I like this part:

“I just came home with my *FIRST* EM..”

Better make some space

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

I like this part:
“I just came home with my *FIRST* EM..”
Better make some space

Hehe, well i doubt i will be building a whole pinball lounge with them, but for 120 USD for a working pinball and just a few mile from me it was a pure steal, simply couldnt be passed up.

Anyway, i think i have encountered a first problem, the Player 1 counter doesnt seem to count up to more then 9999, the fifth wheel doesnt seem to click over to 10000.

also, ive checked out the flippers too, seems to be original Williams flippers, but made out of metal and with a brass rod, dunno how i would see if its "home-made" or not, it looks pretty much like the plastic Williams flippers to me, even the rubbers fit perfectly fine.

IMG_2169_(resized).JPG

#12 4 years ago

Has anyone ever seen these metal flippers before?

#13 4 years ago

They look like chromed plastic

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from Vic_Camp:

Has anyone ever seen these metal flippers before?

Are you sure they are metal or just chrome over plastic ?

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

also, ive checked out the flippers too, seems to be original Williams flippers, but made out of metal and with a brass rod, dunno how i would see if its "home-made" or not,

Sounds like they are metal.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from fiberdude120:

Are you sure they are metal or just chrome over plastic ?

LOL, i just too one apart for you guys, its metal all the way through.

IMG_2170_(resized).JPG

#17 4 years ago

That's some nice work if those are homemade. Very interesting

#18 4 years ago

It doesnt look home-made either, but factory made.

#19 4 years ago

Never seen those. I know Jubilee normally came with standard white plastic tho

--Jeff

#21 4 years ago

Well, i had to change those for 2 ordinary white flippers, these where so badly worn on the rod that they couldnt be set properly, but i'll keep them and change the rod.

Anyway, does anyone have a good pic of the missing part for my backglass or the whole thing so i can print a translite piece? I know a guy that can fix the glass but i need the printed part too...

IMG_2184_(resized).JPG

#22 4 years ago

Well, just now when i started it the 15A fuse popped and every lamp in the backbox also popped (except those in the score sections, only the GI and those above the score wheels popped, funny enough), is this a serious problem somewhere or just "something that happens-switch everything out to new lamps and it is fine" deal?

Also, can i switch to LED's in the backbox on these to reduce the toll on the GI?

I have no clues about EM games.

#23 4 years ago

Looks like Bally flipper bats on that game. Should be the skinny Williams flippers.

What do you mean every lamp in the backbox popped? They exploded?! That's a new one to me.

You can switch LEDs into the backbox (though GI stress is not an issue on these games). I wouldn't do it on the insert lamps though you'll often get ghosting issues.

#24 4 years ago

Yeah but i only had those 2 flippers in stock so they will have to do

And no, they didnt explode, every GI lamp in the back box popped/died/burned off (im a swede, gimme a break on all the hip pinball slang you guys use int he States LOL) along with the upper fuse in the cab (15A).

Well i switched every broken lamp and put in my last 15 A fuse and now they all shined up brightly then the fuse popped again when i pressed the left flipperbutton to initiate the lights.

Must be a lampscoket somewhere in the backbox thats gone bad or soemthing, since all the cables are chekced so they dont touch anything.

#25 4 years ago

Yes, sounds like you have a shorted lamp socket somewhere in the backbox, which can be an absolute bitch.

Follow the GI string and see if you can find anything amiss, a socket that's twisted wrong and touching a part it shouldn't (sounds like you did this). If that isn't fruitful, you'll have to start cutting out large chunks of the GI string at a time until you can narrow down the location.

#26 4 years ago

If you have a short in the GI, Levi's advice is how I would start dividing and conquering.

What doesn't make sense is the fact that the bulbs burned out immediately. That is what you will experience in an over voltage condition. Have you measured the voltage on this circuit to insure it isn't straying much from the designed 6 volts? That may be a difficult thing to do if your fuse keeps blowing.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yes, sounds like you have a shorted lamp socket somewhere in the backbox, which can be an absolute bitch.
Follow the GI string and see if you can find anything amiss, a socket that's twisted wrong and touching a part it shouldn't (sounds like you did this). If that isn't fruitful, you'll have to start cutting out large chunks of the GI string at a time until you can narrow down the location.

If you remove all the bulbs and the fuse doesn't blow, you can add the bulbs back one at a time and when it blows, you'll have found your issue (hopefully).

#28 4 years ago

Thing is, it seems to be somewhere on the GI line, the score lights doesnt seem to be affected at all, its just the ones in the middle of the backbox + the ones above the wheels.

But i'll have to buy more 15A fuses before i try EMsInkC's test tip, im out and got only 10A or 16ASB's

Added a pic of the backbox, the red circle is the lamps that "pop" with the fuse, the greens dont.

lamperror_(resized).jpg

#29 4 years ago

Maybe whatever broke that backglass also bent and shorted something out? Maybe...

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Maybe whatever broke that backglass also bent and shorted something out? Maybe...

Well, the game have worked just fine since i got it home 2 weeks ago, this just started today in the middle of the first game, i suspect i would have had this problem right from the start if it was something that the backglas did.

Besides the crashed backglass happened probably some 15-20 years ago, considering the brown tape i removed from the backglas was in severe decaying condition.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Well, the game have worked just fine since i got it home 2 weeks ago, this just started today in the middle of the first game, i suspect i would have had this problem right from the start if it was something that the backglas did.
Besides the crashed backglass happened probably some 15-20 years ago, considering the brown tape i removed from the backglas was in severe decaying condition.

Gotcha, just spitballing as the problem was in the same general area. I haven't followed the progress that closely.

#32 4 years ago

I would highly recommend one of those 15a mini breakers if you plan on popping a bunch of them.

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Thing is, it seems to be somewhere on the GI line, the score lights doesnt seem to be affected at all, its just the ones in the middle of the backbox + the ones above the wheels.
But i'll have to buy more 15A fuses before i try EMsInkC's test tip, im out and got only 10A or 16ASB's
Added a pic of the backbox, the red circle is the lamps that "pop" with the fuse, the greens dont.

Those are GI, the rest are controlled lights relevant to gameplay (and on different circuits) hence why they're not blowing.

Adding to the above remark, I'd also only put in one light per test so you don't waste hundreds of bulbs while you troubleshoot...

#34 4 years ago

Is only the fuse blowing, or are all the lamps blowing out as well? I had a similar issue years ago with a Williams "Big Deal". All the GI lamps blew out. I was lucky that I quickly found that the GI circuit had found a path to the 24V solenoid power through one of those finishing nails under the slingshot plastics! Once I corrected that and replaced all of the GI lamps, it was good to go.

#35 4 years ago

you could getcha a 6 volt wall wart, A.C. or D.C. dont matter. unplug pin, unplug all jones plugs in back box, and put the wires from the wart across any GI bulb, and see if they light.
This is an easy way to test bulb runs,and a short touch to the bulbs, will usually not kill the wart. "most are protected from that".
The divide and conquer method may be good too. you can cut the braid and mend pretty easy.
and, yes, you can put led's in the bulb sockets. though they may tremble so much, it bothers your eyes. can always put the bulbs back.

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Is only the fuse blowing, or are all the lamps blowing out as well? I had a similar issue years ago with a Williams "Big Deal". All the GI lamps blew out. I was lucky that I quickly found that the GI circuit had found a path to the 24V solenoid power through one of those finishing nails under the slingshot plastics! Once I corrected that and replaced all of the GI lamps, it was good to go.

Well, the first time it was all those bulbs in the red AND the fuse, now the fuse pops as soon as i hit the left flipper button (i event ried with a 16 A fuse, sicne i dont have any 15A, still popped) , dont even have time to put in bulbs

Thing is, its only the GI in the backbox that does this, not the playfield.

#37 4 years ago

So i got to follow the GI cable all the way then? Well i figured the upper fuse deals with the GI, since that is the one that pops.

IMG_2189_(resized).JPG

Whole thing is so weird since it worked perfectly for days, even when dragged around, lifted etc, then when its put it a good corner and left alone and started up on the 3rd day it just breaks like this LOL

#38 4 years ago

Been trudging around inside the cabinet abit, and found 2 weird...stuffs.

1. two switches dont have anything connected to them anymore, but i cant find any loose cables either around them, what gives?

IMG_2190_(resized).JPG

2. This coil seems.... crispy compared to the others. Dunno if it works or not, havent checked it, but could it be dead?

IMG_2191_(resized).JPG

#39 4 years ago

Well, been searching around for a couple of hours now (sodlering some cracked points, 2 loose cables ont he 100 points relays and minor stuff) and maybe found a culprit to the short, i found a spacer that laid across two contacts on the second main plug in the backbox (where the cable from the cab plugs into) and well.... now the 15A 24Volt fuse blows right when i hit the ON/OFF switch instead of the 15A 6Volt when i hit the left flipper button, which is...progress, i guess.

According to the manual that one is for the "Bridge Rectifier":

"IF, HOWEVER, THE 15AMP 24 VOLT FUSE ON THE MECHANISM PANEL OPENS, IT COULD BE DUE TO A FAULTY RECTIFIER."

Have the Rectifier been fried now or do i have some more serious short somewhere? Seriously i have no goddamn clue anymore what is going on, ive checked every damn connection, cable, contact and metal part in the backbox + those "open air" GI metal wire the lamps are soldered on, and nowhere is anything contacting now AFAIK.

Geez naturally it had get a electrical problem of all problems to get, my biggest weakness, right after i get it cheap. *throws hands up in the air*

explained_(resized).JPG

Now, do i dare put a 16A SB fuse in that place (only ones i got home atm) or should i wait on further experiments until i get 15A fuses?

#40 4 years ago

Perhaps its the angle but the photos of the transformer appear to be of completely different units.I wish I could help but every nagging short I have eventually found was so "Obvious" yet confounded me till I located it.

#41 4 years ago

Transformer and fuse photo - That bottom fuse ( the one you marked main fuse? ) only looks like it has about 1 inch piece of red wire at the left side going no where .... open circuit ?

#42 4 years ago

Well, it goes..somewhere, dunno where though, there are some cables thats been done in plastic rather then "cloth" like the other ones.

Also, had to redo the "info part" on the fuse box, it smudged when i was there changing fuses.

IMG_2195_(resized).JPG
IMG_2196_(resized).JPG
IMG_2197_(resized).JPG

I havent touched anything there except the fuses + made a new Fuse info piece.

#43 4 years ago

The fuse fault due to faulty rectifier is referring to a bridge rectifier that may exist on your game to convert the flipper power from AC to DC.

Look online or at clays guides on how to diagnose a bad rectifier. You'll need a multimeter that can read diodes.

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

The fuse fault due to faulty rectifier is referring to a bridge rectifier that may exist on your game tonconvert the flipper power from AC to DC.
Look online or at clays guides on how to diagnose a bad rectifier. You'll need a multimeter that can read diodes.

So, it can be that that is causing it aswell? I have a Caltek Instrument CM1100 multimeter, with diod function so no worries there, but i kinda need to know where and what to measure.

And i believe its this one i found on the underside of the gamefield, though i might be wrong:

IMG_2194_(resized).JPG

This one is named "Bridge Rectifier 26MB20-4C International Rectifier", hopefully its a common one.

#46 4 years ago

Well, did the rectifier test now:

Rectifier_(resized).png

Although as said this isnt "under stress" so i dunno if these readings have any real answer here.

#47 4 years ago

.400 to .600 is considered in range.

That would point you away from the bridge being bad.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

.400 to .600 is considered in range.
That would point you away from the bridge being bad.

Well it could still be bad under stress though, where can i find a replacement (ive googled the IR number but to no avail) just in case i need to switch it out.

#49 4 years ago

Well i looked abit closer at that crispy loking solenoid (Lock Relay Z-29-1250), and it pretty much came apart when i touched it.

So i desoldered it and found crispy chunks of plastics and wrapping under it. I dunno but i guess this could be the buzzing sound i heard during the same game the GI lights died in...

IMG_2198_(resized).JPG

Also, this solenoid looks kinda crispy too, dunno what it named or really what it does except moving the wheels that flips those huge switch collections.

IMG_2199_(resized).JPG

#50 4 years ago

The first is a hold relay and being constantly engaged they burn. Doesn't mean they are bad but once they fall apart they become difficult to use.

The second is your score motor. If the motor turns it is working. It may never have had a label wrap on those windings.

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