Just sit back and enjoy the ride.....

I totally get the concern in that a failure would hurt pinball in many ways. The good thing is that the designers have taken their time getting it right and Jack has been careful not to rush the release. Also, there are still some innovative features that they have not shown the public yet. I doubt that any other big production pinball machine has had as much development time and attention so I have a lot of confidence that they will have a success, especially with Keefer doing the programming and the machine design being a group effort.

There is no progress without risk. What we have seen is excellent, and there is some great talent and financing behind the project. I am optimistic - not without reason, I think.

Jim
WOZ ECLE #825

i dont think there is anyway that this pin will be a complete turd . if at worst it is good not great it will be a perceived failure. This game has to be great. Jack knows it and everyone on the team knows it. any flaws will be found in the beta test games and will be corrected immediately. LE owners will get games mid-July and everyone is going to be happy....except Gary...

Pinball is fun to play.

ROFL.

Cant really see that happening. I have learned that for every game with too much flow or too much stop and go etc. There are an equal number of lovers and haters. Thats why it wont happen. So just like there are folks that play TSPP and hate it there are plenty who swear its the greatest game in the world (just an example).
For that reason playwise I think you will see some posts saying they are not happy followed by a bunch of folks flipping out. So take an already balanced field of fans on both sides and add a better built machine with new innovations and I think its a safe bet on this one.

Jack knows if this game isn't a *HIT*, there will be no next game. He has invested FAR too much money and time to let this happen...

It will be Epic...

I dont think this is 100% true. Even if the game is not great, just a good pin. He still sold about 1,000 LE's. Do the math thats over 7 Million alone. And he will sell plenty WOZ bc its...well WOZ. Jack will be around for a while making pin's. We should all hope for that, for the sake of pinball. So if its not the "greates pinball ever" and just a "good or ok" pin. Im sure he will have a harder time selling pre-orders on the next machine. If the next machine is good he wont have a prob selling them when there released.

That's the key.

When I think about this new venture, I hope it works out. But I haven't played it yet, and no one else has either. So whether it's fun remains to be seen.

Fun to me is a great looking machine that somehow integrates the Theme with game play; and game play is something not too easy or not too hard. Something with balanced scoring and sounds/music that integrate with play.

Something that want's to make me come back an play it again.

I think every talented pinball design team has had winners and losers; so just because talent is involved doesn't mean it will be great.

I think that the hype is so high, that there will be a letdown when it comes out; perhaps like POTC. Then, hopefully, after time it will become a classic.

Robert

Not to take anything from WOZ, but Pinball Magic may be a contender for the most development time. Capcom had to redesign all of the playfield components, including the best flipper mechs of all time.

Steve (in Escalon, CA)

I am just sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I'm usually pretty optimistic, and then I heard Jack say what games he personally owns, they were all dogs so now I'm worried

I was referring to the game itself rather than the components that make a pinball machine. JJP already has Williams components so they did not have to mess with that much.

All we can do is wait.

They did not even have the back box, playfield or anything to show at MPE last week.

I hope the game rocks, but if it is just average or even sucks, it will NOT be the end of the world.

I have lots of friends who paid $7000 for plasma TVs that are already obsolete (no HDMI, only 480p...). Throw it out and get something better.

At the same time my 7k Pioneer Elite Plasma is still the best picture I have seen ; )

Don't worry pinball does not rest on the shoulders of that pin alone. Stern has been making them for a very long time now and new companies like Skit-B appear to be making a splash on to the scene.

Also, regardless of how the play really is I think most of the new owners are going to express exuberance over it either way. People seem to be much more willing to give a pass to a new maker than to a company like Stern which in a way is good because it helps others get into making pins.

Given what we've seen of the game so far and the team involved in developing the game, I don't see any way that this game will be a "turd". With that being said I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will buy the game and decide that they don't care for the gameplay and sell it rather quickly when it doesn't live up to their expectations. -Especially with how much money they have invested in it.

Honestly I think the game is going to be a lot like TSPP (with a TZ feel) which to me is a great thing! I mean it's got the same design team, will likely have similar super deep rules, and the layout is similar as well. I love TSPP, but I know the game has plenty of detractors. This isn't going to be a game like MM, AFM, IM, Tron or even SM, so if you gravitate towards those types of games (fast fan layouts) and avoid games like TSPP and TZ you're probably not going to care for it. -At least that's what I'd guess from what we know so far.

It could be a turd if it doesn't have a good feel. That's all it takes to be worthless to some people (like me). You can have the best deisgn, ruleset, flow, or whatever catch phrase you wanna put in there, but if it doen't "Feel" great, I won't play it. Using Williams parts helps though.

Yes, I sort of feel that way. I hope WOZ is one of those Turnaround Games for me. When I started I loved the EM machines. I was never a fan of more than 2 flippers. Didn't like all the ramps, toys, etc. Then T2 came along and was a Turnaround Machine for me. I actually liked the ramps and the toys. Scared Stiff as well. So now I hope WOZ will make me like multiple playfields and 5 flippers....we'll see.

Like every pinball machine, until it hits the street you won't know. Or now the homes.

One thing it has going for it, many involved including Jack play pinball.

So I think odds are it will be a good playing game, add Keith's magic and odds really go up.

LTG

I was refering to treveism's post. I have a feeling if you like TZ, TAF, TSPP, you'll like WOZ. So far I prefer MB, AFM, etc...so far!

I have yet to play a pinball and think "gah this is a chore, I would rather mow the lawn" . I like to play pinball. All pinball.

Jack said he has a tspp, I wouldn't consider that one a dog, but on that same token, Jack isn't making the game, he's just the figurehead for the company. He's fantastic at his job, unlike someone who was born into it and just wants to talk about things that happened 50 years ago.

I suppose that still doesn't mean it'll be golden, Keefer's rules seem great to me, but other people may like Lyman (or someone else's) rules better when it comes to software.

Balcer on the other hand, he would be a concern, as tspp is the only great game he's made (lots of good ones, just one great one). I have full confidence in him on this, as he knows as well as everyone else, that the company is in his hands on this one. He has to put in his heart and soul to make it work. In fact, I think we'll see more out of him than ever before when/if this turns out well.

One of the big factors of this company is that the employees appear to be enjoying their jobs. The reason I'm on a forum and not working right now is because I despise my job, and my performance reflects on this. A good work environment can make all the difference to a lot of people, and anyone that has worked with a lot of people can see that. I won't pretend that I've seen Jack's work history, but I think he's had a lot of up's and down's in his life, and he's learned how people should be treated, and how to run a company well.

Personally, I won't buy this machine, I don't have the finances, but I'm hoping it won't be that turd, I don't hope ANY games are turds. Like Jack, I would like to see lots of pinball competition out there.

+1

I guarantee you will like WOZ.

Play orbitor a couple times in a row

Once calibrated, PE is bad ass stuff indeed!

With all the time put into WOZ, If its not better than every single modern Stern ever made, There is no doubt it will be named the biggest flop of all time.

When I use to have it at home, Orbitor was the first game people would gravitate towards. Someone was always playing it, enjoying it, laughing out loud.

On route, it was not a big money maker.

My only fear is that it will suffer from over-hype. that's a risk when you release details pre-launch.

Oh.... It's over hyped already!

Christ, TFLE was over hyped and look what happened. If they dropped TF without saying a word people wouldn't be bitching all the time.

Around here for sure. Knock down drag out fights about it killing Stern yada yada.

This really is going a bit too far IMO. I love to see all the passion about this pin for sure. However, no matter what not everyone is going to like the pin that is just the nature of pinball. Some will love it some will hate it. Just because it has some new features does not mean everyone has to love it or it's a flop.

Jeez, I hope all the ball cup-ing fan boys love it though.

For Ya'll's Sake and All the Talk & Hype , I Hope WOZ is a Blast !! I'm lOOk-n 4-ward to Play-n it

....

Good post, and I pretty much agree with most of this.

Ironically enough I do not care for TSPP at all, but I love my TZ...and I agree that the comparisons to those two pins are valid in terms of similar layout and stop and go nature. Just goes to show that you can't place too much emphasis on not liking one equating to not liking another with similar layouts.

I don't know, I think it could be more over-hyped than it is because there are plenty of detractors. If nothing else, there are a ton of people who hate the theme and have said that they won't buy it for that reason alone (they call it "gay" etc.).

New JJP Newsletter is ready NOW!

One word, Capcom! Starting a Pinball company isn't a great idea, 30 years late to the game. $7M really?

Prepare to call it a flop then. I have a hard time believing WOZ will be better than games like LOTR and SM. That said, I'd love to be proven wrong as I do have a WOZ on order.

Yes & no. Capcom had other things to do, so it didn't really need the pinball division. JJP isn't exaclty in the same boat i would think.

I would lean that way also. Do I think they could make a game as good as CSI, TRS, IM; probably.

Jack is not a figure head,He is involved in every aspect of the pin,from approving design and layout to artwork,colors,toys,software,mechanics and so on.
Just like a really good builder or contractor He has to know a lot about all aspects and He has to lead his very experienced team in all phases and be smart enough to let them do their thing in a cost effective,efficient,high quality manor that will please and excite his target market!!!

gah! I knew that statement would bite me in the end. I know, he's the CEO and he does a lot of things, also running pinballsales.com. But he gets the ideas sent to him, he's not drawing out the designs and programming, he's saying if they get the go ahead or not.

The knowing about all aspects part goes along with what I was saying about having a solid team that doesn't dread their lives every day they come into work. Respect goes a long way in all industries, along with a very solid skill base.

I'm not going to judge WOZ until I play it.

Its a milestone period.

In the 5 types of games (EM, SS, Alpha Num, DOT Matrix and Pinball 2000) in some ways this is the 6th version since they are using LCD as the back glass, USB, WiFi new boards, etc.

Stern has been using 90's tech still today.

Also 2 other factors.

- Chris Granner: My favorite theme music maker... Taxi, Space Station and on and on.
- Dennis Nordman: WH20, etc.

Jack has a winning team and if they get the PF right, software updates will fix any turds down the road.

Amen to that. I am in the process of switching jobs for this very reason.

I hope it's good too - and I do expect that it will be a good to excellent game.

There's a lot riding on that machine, i think, and ofc a lot of excitement about JJP arriving in the market. A lot of these hopes kinda depend on WoZ being the best pinball machine made in the past decade. True, stern hasn't set the bar very high, but a bar has been set nonetheless. WoZ needs to be a top-notch game.

I worry a little about the ruleset - will they go so deep with the rules (like LoTR) that the game alienates some players? Hopefully they'll strike a good balance here.
And I worry about the software and use of the display - will they pull it off - getting all the art done, all the software written - without pushing the release back too much? Will the software get out the door with the stability expected of and required for an arcade game? For that matter, will the new (more sophisticated) electronics hold up in the rough arcade environment? A pinball machine is a much harsher environment than a gun game, for sure - vibration is nasty.

The layout looks a bit TSPP, only with less to shoot on the main PF - due to space taken up by the upper PF's, but those look like they'll more than make up for it; It's got the upper PF effect of No Fear's jump ramp and a TSPP-style upper PF on the left too. Only layout issue I worry about is the usage of so many standup targets. As we all know, standup targets aren't made of plastic and metal - they're made of drains and death; I assume (and hope) the WoZ team has taken pains to make sure that they won't be "those things you avoid shooting at all costs".