(Topic ID: 113487)

I have officially lost any and all respect for Stern as a company.


By erak

4 years ago



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  • 129 posts
  • 86 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by RyanStl
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 129 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 4 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Pinball NEEDS Stern, like it or not.

I agree.
Stern also needs customers to keep their company alive.

Their current business model pisses a lot of people off as well.

So far,
Major code issues and delays for the last few years.
Non working features, advertised features not implemented
Vault editions
LE, premium,pro price increase.
LE and pros only. Then premiums announced
Extra Mod selling at high prices. For machines that have a LE version without these mods added.
Redesigning cabinets to be cheaper. While increasing prices.
Completed games put on hokd while new titles are produced.

Trying to harm the company will not accomplish anything.
Getting them to take notice and change. Thats the important thing.

I for one can not continue to support Stern as a company.
I respect the fact that they still make machines.
I do not respect them as a business.

#102 4 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

We have allowed these companies to deliver an incomplete product.

speak for yourself, man. I've only bought one NIB game and it was IMVE. I was cool with the rules the way they were when delivered.

#103 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Stern's solution would be to write simple code.
Less modes, less things to complete.
"Here ya go. Here is your completed V1.0 code. Everything works. Nothing to add. Enjoy. "

I believe it is more of a process problem. Pinball machines aren't rocket science. I am not saying it isn't work but a systematic approach could easily be applied. With a systematic approach in place or some type of development platform, someone like Lyman would be overseeing engineers and giving direction with how to create fun and balance code rather than writing code. Also, with a systematic approach more easter eggs or artistic new things could be put in because less time would be spent fixing problems and trying to make something tight, which is hard for them to just achieve now. A smart person needs complex code to do complex things. A smarter person can make code that is simple, easy to read, and modular that can do complex things.

#104 4 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

speak for yourself, man. I've only bought one NIB game and it was IMVE. I was cool with the rules the way they were when delivered.

And there you have it folks.
Buy the VE pins if you can't wait for code.
As much as I want to dive in headfirst on new games, I don't have the patience or space to keep them until code is done. The best purchases I've ever made were ACDC Premium and Met Premium, after all the code was finished. (or in the current state anyway)
If you don't like the incomplete code and the waiting for updates aspect, you just have to bite your tongue and refrain from ordering on day one.

All this said, I'm not sure that anyone would argue that StarTrek is due for some sort of update or announcement, at least letting people know what's happening.

If would be great if Stern would post a chart showing what game is getting attention next, just so people aren't left completely in the dark. -Not that it'll happen.

#105 4 years ago

The funny thing is that ST will get an update......long overdue perhaps, but it will get updated.

#106 4 years ago
Quoted from erak:

There is a main problem with the wait till its finished approach before you buy.
When its finished it may no longer be available from distributors or Stern themselves as it is no longer in production.

What game have they made over the last few years that was not available down the road? Stern does a good job of building enough machines to fill demand. As it stands, I can find everything back to Transformers without much effort. And worst case scenario you have to get a HUO machine.

#107 4 years ago

Stern has positioned itself to run a line of BW/PBS, Boutique pin, VE, and their 2/3 new releases.
New designers would be ignorant not have stern in their new facility produce their dream idea. Jack ,
with Woz which I own, and THSE which I have ordered are making are truly trying to raise the bar.
The PBS games are complete, the rest are a process. I fail to see the post suggesting a boycot ,
regarding new releases is more than a waste of time. The same people bitch, all the rest continue
to buy. Buy the way I think my TWDLE is the most fun pin I own, and welcome all updates.

#108 4 years ago
Quoted from Banker:

The PBS games are complete

But what does that have to do with pinball?

http://pbskids.org/games/

#109 4 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Go start your own,

... not in my plans

Quoted from DNO:

Don't buy, Wait till it's up to your unrealistic standards,
Collect older games,

....that's what I have been doing...

Quoted from DNO:

Class action? Protest?

You're right...let's all sing kumbaya and be merry

Quoted from DNO:

Gimme a Fuc7ing break!

Where should I mail the kitkat?

Quoted from DNO:

I'm not backing EVERYTHING they do, but people's hatred and ill will for the company pisses me off sometimes.

When I company willingly misleads there customer base...then they should receive a pile of shit in my opinion. And it's not bad press that will kill the company in the long run but make them more accountable. They've had free reign for too long without any consequences

Quoted from DNO:

Pinball NEEDS Stern, like it or not.

JJP would be all too happy.

#110 4 years ago

I am not sterns greatest fan although some of their machines I really like. I just think the title of this thread is a little harsh. Its not like they shat in your cornflakes mate. What do you do when someone is a little late handing in something at work. "I have lost all respect for you, you deserve to burn in hell, you are fired and may god have mercy on your soul"

#112 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

When I company willingly misleads there customer base...then they should receive a pile of shit in my opinion. And it's not bad press that will kill the company in the long run but make them more accountable. They've had free reign for too long without any consequences

Ah, well okay then. Better get that rally going, grab the Pitchforks! Sounds like a productive effort that should yield exactly the results you desire.
I enjoy playing ST, and just about any game out there. Guess I'm just too easy to please.
You can drum up the shitstorm, and I'll keep flipping and grinnin'
Have a blast!

-3
#113 4 years ago

Bottom line, Stern is a pinball manufacturer (for their own product, and others). Code is technically not manufacturing, that's an update done by the customer. Do Sterns go out with less than complete code, yes. Is it a fully playable machine minus some tweaks? Yes.

Unless they've shipped a game without a specific feature they promised (Xmen wolverine figure), they've delivered what they promised. I would think by now they would have hired another programmer, but maybe good talent (that is willing to work 60+ hour weeks) is hard to come by.

1 week later
#114 4 years ago
Quoted from wolfy:

There are so many great games with complete codes why would anyone buy a new game. I have owned 47 games and all had complete codes. I have owned 5 Sterns all complete. There is a risk that some of these new games will never have a code completed. There is no motivation after the money has changed hands. Have a little will power and do not buy the next NIB and see what happens. Operators already have a backlog of new games they are sitting collecting dust.

I have Tron, loved it when it came out, loved it more when the code was updated. STLE bought NIB, love the game, know code will come b/c Steve wants it done. Other code was completed later (batman) and even price reflected pre/post code completion. I do disagree with one thing - Tron code was updated way after $ changed hands.

Bottom line - buy NIB and take the risk (many here are commenting that its common knowledge a NIB will have major code updates, and sometimes months long wait for it). Or wait a year. Or sell the disappointing (to you) purchase.

#115 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

And I get flamed for saying that Stern would be in trouble if people decided to do a class action lawsuit.. go figure!!! Bad press is bad press no matter how big or small. Get 200 people and protest in front of Stern's office and get people in front of camera's saying that Stern is promising and not delivering...this affects the company's reputation.
Then get someone in front of Gary and ask him the tough questions that need to be answered.

Why don't you be the "someone"? Call him up and ask the questions.

#116 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

This is exactly what the problem is, people have that "perception" that is just not reality. Stern counts on it every time.
You can ALWAYS get what you want if you wait...........ALWAYS
Because if its any good in the first place Stern is going to let the printing presses run. TWD as a recent example, strong demand, false sense of scarcity at first to suck in the LE sales, and yet here comes the premium.
They ran thousands of Ac/dc's, heck, they will run anything, VE's, Luci's, etc. if it will make them a dime.
Watch what happens now, MODS in the Stern store as they continue to raise the price and cheapen the product.
The only way they do the right thing on software is if we don't buy NIB's, I'll never buy another one unless they get a whole lot better on software and only if Lyman is involved in it.
To their credit, TWD software is pretty damn good right now, thanks to Lyman. But then it appears ST is a jumbled mess, because Lyman isn't involved, or at least people seem to be screaming for code updates to fix issues.

Don't expect them to ever say anything other than the "software team" is coding xyz game. They've learned.
Tons of money was made it the secondary trading of TronLE - $ made by others and not Stern, Stean raised prices, and now have 3 game types.
Lots of money spent on mods. Stern now produces mods.
Idle factory if Stern only makes "enough" to be sure they sell out in X weeks. Stern manufacters for others (MMr, WN)
Designers can only crank out so many new games, w/o getting too far ahead of coders. Redo "done" designs/code (ve)

Lots of games are being sold - despite everyone's opinion they are "incomplete" - all the above are simply supply/demand business decisions. Notice alot of these changes were after the capital inflow from the JV partner? Marketing, code state is whatever when shipping deadline is reached, 3 game types, mods now offered. Its obvious that the business model is changing to meet demand. Gary has said it many times - pros to operators, LE to collectors, Premium to enthusiasts.

#117 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

People keep buying games with incomplete code = Stern keeps making games with incomplete code
Wow, simple, isn't it?

You rebel. So Spooky helps build and you complete the code before shipping. Why can't you just conform Mr. Heck?

#118 4 years ago

Stern is by no means perfect, but they are managing to balance the needs for great playing pins and profits for corporate america. No one else is doing it as well and no one is even challenging them as a whole at present. Erak - you live close enough to America to Share the American dream by cranking up a new business and challenging their business model - I support you if you are willing to show Stern how it should be done. Remember the entire business from Acquisition of new licenses, Creation of new pins, Marketing, Repairs/Service/Parts, in addition to, running an entire business... No small task. Are we truly Mad at Stern at times? - Yes. Are other pin companies making it happen in the current pinball world by comparison? - Not even close. Let me know when you are ready to make a run or when you see any other company doing it better bro!

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

This is one reason why the Vault Editions are such a great option.
There is no risk on "what will be" and how long it will take to get there.

Reward them for their lack of customer care? Really?

1 week later
#120 4 years ago
Quoted from Animal:

Reward them for their lack of customer care? Really?

Yeah, I guess you and I have a very different point of view on how this shakes out.
See, Stern is alone when it comes to making multiple titles each year. The very fact that they can do that is why I don't criticize their methods. If a single other company could produce anywhere near the numbers that they put out, I could understand some criticism.

The very simple, unchanging fact is that it takes longer to produce code than it does to put these things out. There are two ways to see this:
1) Stern needs to finish code before selling the pins
2) Buyers who can't weather the storm and wait it out, shouldn't buy immediately

Given that this has been the way things work for years, how is it that you can blame Stern for their "lack of customer care"? Shouldn't you be blaming buyers for their lack of foresight?

#121 4 years ago

I don't know how Gary or anyone else would come up with "pros are for operators", I play pinball to have fun and to collect, can't afford anything else but a pro, so I guess I'm an operator now. Dang, where's the money coming in?

#122 4 years ago

The car analogy regarding recalls isn't really apt. Recalls happen when a product is defective. Sterns aren't defective, just unfinished. It's like buying a car off the lot brand new with back seats that are un-apholstered, and the salesman assures you Ford plans to mail rear seat fabric to all their customers eventually. Who's at fault here? The customer for buying a car with bare-metal back seats, or the company for putting out a car with obvious glaring shortcomings that they may or may not fix? I don't think there's a real answer but I've seen it enough times to be very wary of the manufacturer in question.

#123 4 years ago

Stern makes gameSSS! every year. When someone else does the same, this thread will be relevant. Till then...it's lame.

#124 4 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Where in the Stern sales material released at launch does it say "the rules will be x,y,z and the lighting effects will be a,b,c"?
Just because it doesn't work the way the pinball community thinks it should or that they have not implemented all the features we dreamed up does not make it a defective product...
Einstein defined insanity as "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Anyone buying Stern NIB and complaining about unfinished code is insane...

Agreed. I'm moving along to some other actual pinball discussion in some other thread.

#125 4 years ago

No interest in mustang, passed on walking dead due to code issues with stle. Done pre orders!

#126 4 years ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

No interest in mustang, passed on Walking Dead due to code issues with stle. Done pre orders!

See you & raise. Haven't bought a Stern yet, nor any NIB title: could easily do it but probably won't. (Give me Stern Sr. titles like Stars or Meteor any day, over most anything from Stern Jr. But that's just me -- an unrepentant EM to early SS guy, for the most part.) Even if you don't care for WOZ at all, hard to deny that JJP is leaving Stern in the dust, tech development wise. For example, that cheesy, cartoon-y dot animation on ST just doesn't cut it these days. Not when we're seeing these kinds of prices on new pin titles.

#127 4 years ago

Stern......lost resepct for them ages ago.

#128 4 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

The very simple, unchanging fact is that it takes longer to produce code than it does to put these things out. There are two ways to see this:
1) Stern needs to finish code before selling the pins
2) Buyers who can't weather the storm and wait it out, shouldn't buy immediately

Or option

3) Don't wait to start the code process until the last minute, which is what Stern does now

This isn't an insurmountable problem, it's just not a priority for Stern. I think they'd be wise to make it one.

#129 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

The car analogy regarding recalls isn't really apt. Recalls happen when a product is defective. Sterns aren't defective, just unfinished. It's like buying a car off the lot brand new with back seats that are un-apholstered, and the salesman assures you Ford plans to mail rear seat fabric to all their customers eventually. Who's at fault here? The customer for buying a car with bare-metal back seats, or the company for putting out a car with obvious glaring shortcomings that they may or may not fix? I don't think there's a real answer but I've seen it enough times to be very wary of the manufacturer in question.

To agree more, car recalls only happen for safety defects. Regular maintenance problems are by internal TSB or lemon laws.

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