(Topic ID: 294238)

I have done something to my Williams Strato-flite.

By blibb

21 days ago


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  • 62 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 days ago by baldtwit
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There are 62 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 11 days ago
Quoted from blibb:

Couple more photos.
baldtwit
1 is the last relay on the board. Part of the coin mech. Wondering if it might be guilty of the endless credits?
The relay itself has no action, and I messed it up more. I think the blades are back where they belong.
2 the left flipper switch. I'm not sure what the 2nd switch is about, but I know it isn't doing much at the moment. It's been closed by someone.
[quoted image][quoted image]

sorry, was out all day yesterday.

[1]

the end relay is the coin setup relay. It's used when the game is jumpered for 1 coin 1 play, 2 coins 3 plays mode.

it's interesting that it's powered. Is your 25 cent or 10 cent relay powering at any time unless you are using the coin switches? For now, I'd put credits on the game and only use the replay button, then the 25 cent and 10 cent relays should never power.

the relays in order from the end are:
coin setup relay - 10 cent relay - 25 cent relay - tilt relay - ball index relay - game over interlock relay

[2]

the second switch on the left flipper goes to the lock relay. It's one of the ways to wake up the game after the power has been turned off or someone kicked the bottom of the cabinet. Since yours is permanently closed, your game wakes up as soon as you turn on the power. It's ok to leave it like that if you want.

#52 11 days ago

sounds like you're getting there.

resetting the score reels goes thru a different circuit than the score reels incrementing due to hitting stuff on the playfield.

most likely what is happening is you hit something on the playfield and the appropriate 10/100/1000pt relay powers and keeps itself powered until the score reel solenoid fires ... which should be immediately.

there's an EOS (end of stroke) switch on each score reel that opens when the plunger has sucked into the coil. When that opens, the circuit to the point relay is opened and the relay unpowers, which in turn unpowers the score reel solenoid.

if your score reel solenoid is sticking on, look at see if the associated point relay is stuck on. If it is, yank the score reel and see what the EOS switch is doing.

schem example for 10 points is around D-18:

1] kicker switch closes and powers the 10pt relay
2] circuit right below that is now closed because the 10pt relay switch closed. The 10pt relay is keeping itself powered thru that hold circuit.
3] when the score reel solenoid powers, the "X player 10pt D.U. EOS switch" opens and the 10pt relay unpowers.
4] score reel solenoid unpowers and the score reel increments

#53 10 days ago

Hi baldtwit,

Pulled apart the 10 and 100 score reels for player 1 today to see if I could get some score happening. Cleaned them up, and got them back together properly. They're resetting properly at game start. The EOS switches seemed like they'd be functioning properly. However I don't get score from the 10 pt slingshots. No buzzing, but no score either. The hundred point still buzzes. I'm not sure if it's the EOS coil that's stuck or something else in the back box. I'll investigate further tomorrow. Thank you for all your help!

Evan

#54 10 days ago
Quoted from blibb:

Quick update. Cleaned the rest of the relays like I did the tilt relay. Bonus scoring, bonus lights, kickout lights, etc all working now. Bonus scoring working too. All that seems to be left is buzzing I get from all the score relays. I watched videos on the process yesterday. I'm a little intimidated by the complexity, but I've taken one out and put it back to make sure I can at least do that. I've noticed in my fiddling with the score reels that they do clear on startup. So they function that much. They just seem to hang whenever on field points are scored. I think bonus points are still making it through. I guess we'll know more after they're cleaned.
I cannot thank you enough for all the help you've provided, and putting up with my hyperactive squirrel mind. lol You're right. Cocktails really help deal with these things.

Read this thread concerning Score reels End of stroke switches.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-score-reel-eos-switch

#55 9 days ago
Quoted from TwinDavid:

Read this thread concerning Score reels End of stroke switches.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-score-reel-eos-switch

Hi TwinDavid,

Thanks for the link. I'm pretty good on understanding the mechanics of the reel/switches. I think I saw 5 or 6 videos watching teardown of these things before I attempted my first. I'm hoping the reason I didn't see much change in their performance was that I didn't clean the plunger piece that gets sucked into the coil. All of the videos I watched, they cleaned that piece, but mine weren't crazy dirty, so I left well enough alone. Probably my mistake. Going to take a 2nd crack at them today, and we'll see.

#56 9 days ago

baldtwit

Took apart the 100 pt score reel and gave it a good cleaning. Coil plunger sanded clean. Plastics all cleaned. Put it back together. It resets properly, as it always has, but the coil not releasing is still happening. I've hesitated adjusting the EOS switch, because it looks like if the coil works as it should. It should be opening the switch. My question. If the EOS switch opens, is it possible that another switch is keeping the coil powered, (thinking something on the playfield) or am I barking up the wrong tree?

As always, thank you so much!

I should point out that it doesn't start until the 100pt is scored. I'd be confused if another stuck switch was keeping it energized, because it doesn't happen until 100pts is scored. Maybe what I'm suggesting is impossible, however I was playing/testing things on the game when this all happened. Could the 100pt relay itself be the culprit?

#57 9 days ago
Quoted from blibb:

baldtwit
Took apart the 100 pt score reel and gave it a good cleaning. Coil plunger sanded clean. Plastics all cleaned. Put it back together. It resets properly, as it always has, but the coil not releasing is still happening. I've hesitated adjusting the EOS switch, because it looks like if the coil works as it should. It should be opening the switch. My question. If the EOS switch opens, is it possible that another switch is keeping the coil powered, (thinking something on the playfield) or am I barking up the wrong tree?
As always, thank you so much!
I should point out that it doesn't start until the 100pt is scored. I'd be confused if another stuck switch was keeping it energized, because it doesn't happen until 100pts is scored. Maybe what I'm suggesting is impossible, however I was playing/testing things on the game when this all happened. Could the 100pt relay itself be the culprit?

I'm thinking that if the coil were sucking in the plunger enough, then the act of shutting off the power should score the point. Right? If the plunger retracts to where it should, then when released it should then score the point. The very fact that the point is not scoring then means the plunger is not retracting enough? Is there a reason that would be happening on a freshly cleaned reel, that does reset properly? I mean, even if the reset sequence is powered differently, it must use the EOS switches to determine when the plunger needs to release? It also must be using the same coil/plunger to make the reel turn during the reset, and it's moving just fine. I'm very confused again.

EDIT: Another thing that suggests that it isn't the score reel itself is the fact that every reel in the game stopped working at once. 10, 100, 1000. None of the reels score for any of the players in the game. That's 12 out of 16 reels and all of them simultaneously stopped working? 1 in a million (probably more).

#58 9 days ago

if the score reels are resetting, there's nothing mechanically wrong with them.

you're right that if a 10/100/1000pt relay was sticking on and causing a score reel solenoid to pull in the plunger, then turning off the game should increment the score reel.

I guess the main question is ... are the pt relays even powering now?

you can test score reels by manually closing (pushing the armature plate down on the coil top) an Xpt relay and letting go. Score reel for the active player should increment each time.

if the pt relays are powering or manually operating them doesn't increment reels, the possibilities are:

1] player unit has issues. Poor wiper connections, not in correct position, etc. Is the correct player illuminated?

2] yet another tilt relay switch. This time the one with yellow and white/orange wires on the blades

3] plug connection is flaky

[3] is something you should probably check if you haven't. Unplug the game from the wall and pull each plug. Use something that doesn't scratch the metal to clean the plug pins. Unless you have corrosion buildup on the sockets, don't worry about them as inserting the plug usually scrubs them clean enough for a reliable connection.

I forgot to post pics showing labels that haven't fallen off the museum parts game ... here ya go.

strato-flite adjust plugs (resized).jpgstrato-flite bottom board (resized).jpgstrato-flite bottom board coin unit (resized).jpgstrato-flite bottom board2 (resized).jpgstrato-flite fuses (resized).jpgstrato-flite knocker (resized).jpgstrato-flite motor hi-tap card (resized).jpgstrato-flite play meter (resized).jpgstrato-flite transformer (resized).jpg
#59 9 days ago

baldtwit You are too kind! Thank you so much!
I'll follow all of your suggestions and let you know of the results.

#60 9 days ago

baldtwit You did it!

It was the tilt relay again.

Strato-flite is now back to how it was when I got it. I must have tried to clean those relays when I was trying to get the game to advance to ball 2, and probably made them unstable. I read a comment somewhere from someone saying that cleaning switches leaves behind residue, and so I've since switched to clean with a file. Clean with a bit of paper towel. Results seem more stable.

Strangely enough the original problem I was having with the ball / player not advancing returned. Up until the scoring was fixed, the ball was advancing. Now it has stopped again. Strange coincidence? Is there anything on the tilt relay that could involve advancing the ball?

Thank you so much! I could not have got this far without you!

You're a wizard!

#61 9 days ago
Quoted from blibb:

Strato-flite is now back to how it was when I got it.

Damn it! Now what am I gonna read on this site?!!!

Glad it’s fixed

#62 9 days ago

unless a switch contact is deeply pitted or has a shellac-like film on it (wet looking is really bad), making them shiny clean isn't as important as "overtravel" on the adjust. It's the overtravel that makes the switch reliable.

about 8:20 into this video talks about it:

he's using a gottlieb game as an example, and those are harder since the blades are usually shorter. The williams and bally relays are longer blades with more travel, so you should be able to see the shorter blade visibly deflect after the longer/moving blade contact touches.

the difference it kinda like touching your finger/thumb together vs/ snapping your fingers. You want the contacts to slide across each other a little after they touch.

There are 62 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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