First off I'm a huge JJP fan and own both a WOZ and TH. Code support for WOZ has been absolutely stellar. When WOZ was released code updates were released frequently and updates to polish the game continue to be released. The incredible code support from JJP for WOZ helped make the game a masterpiece. Also, a final wizard mode for WOZ was coded into the game by the end of its first year.

Fast forward to The Hobbit. A game with 31 unique modes, several multiball modes, and 3 Arkenstone mini wizard modes, all with excellent use of licensed assets and great music / audio queues. Code updates for TH in 2016 were released regularly up until a few months before Expo 2016. At Expo 2016 Jack said that a final code update for TH would be released. This came across as rather alarming as the game certainly didn't feel complete. Thankfully another update came this year.

This past June a 2.0 update was released for TH and JJP made a statement about code over on the JJP forums. I won't post it here but owners were told that more updates would be released as time permits. This is concerning as the game still doesn't have a final wizard mode coming up on nearly 2 years after its release...again WOZ had it's wizard mode in the game by the end of its first year. The other ideas that JJP mentioned for TH sound cool but again it's unclear when, if ever, they will be implemented.

Also, there's now a thread with over 100 posts on the JJP Google group (a lot for that group) about the state of Hobbit code and how a good number of owners feel that the game is being neglected due to the development of other games. So far JJP has not replied to the thread to provide an update about Hobbit code development. The thread was started a month ago.

I've been critical of Stern in the past in regards to code support and it wouldn't be fair of me to sweep similar code concerns for JJP games under the rug. I would still say code support for TH has been better then nearly every Stern game but it just doesn't seem to have been given the same level of attention as WOZ.

Just like considering purchasing another Stern game I won't consider buying another JJP title until code for TH is completed, polished and hopefully at least some of the suggestions from the community are implemented. Many of us spent $7500-$9500 on the game and deserve to see it completed in a reasonable time.

At this years Expo JJP said that they are committed to games that hold their value. Well, the current state of code for TH has impacted its value in a negative way. We've seen how excellent code support can positively affect a games value, examples include Star Trek, Metallica and WOZ. All 3 of those games went down a bit in value before it's code was completed / polished.

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What are the main concerns amongst owners?

1. The lack of a final mode
2. Lack of cohesion and a reward system for beating multiple book modes.
3. Same qualifiers for all 3 Arkenstone modes, becomes repetitive for each Arkenstone mode attempt
4. The desire for more Smaug and Gandalf voice actor callouts if they exist and are just not in the game yet
5. Ability to turn off multiballs for book modes, too many multiballs
6. There's 31 book modes but only 3 need to be completed to reach the 3 Arkenstone modes (1 for each). Need more incentive to play through the other 28.

I think he's referring to the games 31 book modes. When those end you do get a nice audio queue signaling that you have completed it.

To expand a bit on my original post.

There's a tremendous amount of rules, audio, and animation work in The Hobbit, probably more then another game. It's bringing it all together that owners would like to see changed / expanded a bit.

It would be cool to have a reward system in place for beating the sets of man, elf and dwarf modes as well as counts of modes (5, 10, 15, 20). With only having to complete 3 of 31 book modes the game currently lacks providing a rewarding feeling for playing through multiple book modes.

JJP has the Hobbit back on the line again. Unpopular games don't continue to get made as we've seen in the past and certainty not games where another edition, Black Arrow in the case of TH, is created.

Thank you for the kind words. Great suggestions! Some more callouts from Smaug would be great to hear in the game. The Smaug toy is pretty cool and there appears to be more speech from the character that isn't in the game.

I've always been surprised that no Smaug lines from one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy isn't in the game, the scene where Smaug calls Bilbo "Barrel Rider".

"Do you think flattery will keep you alive". "You seem familiar" (could be used at game start with Smaug toy), "Who are you and where do you come from" (same as last). All of those are from Smaug and should be in the game.

Wow. Well, others can say the opposite and after owning the game for over a year now I can say that all of the 31 book modes are unique and play differently. Also, I don't understand the swipe at the games design. It's open but then all of a sudden isn't, there's a lot to shoot for and there all multiple features on the playfield that move the ball around. That's just my opinion.

I hear ya on the extreme stacking in The Hobbit. I much rather play a more fleshed out Beast Frenzy and Feast Frenzy mode on their own then the versions that are in the game today plus then stacked with Smaug MB and a book mode. Like you said the stacking can become extreme. Same goes for too many multiballs during the book modes. An option to turn off multiballs in book modes would be nice to have in the game.

I've never seen the amount of variety put into a games modes before as those in TH. That isn't the issue though that a lot of owners are talking about. The core of the game is fine but its lacking polish in terms of the game offering a cohesive, rewarding and complete playing experience. The game has a ton of content in it, probably more then any other modern pin out there today, but it needs to be brought together in a more interesting as well as rewarding way.

I would call TH anything but a dud. The modes themselves are very well done. Also, the mini LCD clearly shows what to hit next. Very straight forward.

Also, if players had to play 31 modes in a certain order there would be a lot of backlash. Book modes can be played in any order and changed by hitting the left ramp. Hitting the left ramp changes the pages on the mini LCD, each page represent a book mode.

This thread isn't intended to bash the game but rather discuss the need for code development.

I agree with you 100% and feel the same way. I won't be buying a JJP POTC until code for TH is polished with a final wizard mode.

Just read the comment from Keith. Glad to hear that another Hobbit code update is coming, not just as time permits (I felt that was a concern from a previous statement), and a timeline for it (after POTC is released).

Like others I would of course like to see an update sooner but I can understand that they have to put time into getting POTC ready for release.

I hear ya there. It still is frustrating as that's a long way out (6 months at least by the time its released) and The Hobbit will have been out for over 2 years at that point. It's clear that the development of other games have impacted code support for TH. I was expecting TH to get the same amount of code attention for the first couple of years like WOZ but that was a different time as just the one game was being developed initially.

However, with that being said there's a ton in the game today, it's good to hear that JJP is listening to our concerns, and it's great knowing that another update is for sure coming.

Iceman, I had a hunch it was you. I've had you on ignore for months and have had a much more pleasant Pinside browsing experience since then. I'm glad I briefly took you off ignore just to read this comment. I thought "maybe he's changed". Nope, as rude and insulting as ever.

Go check the Hobbit owners thread, heck this thread or the others about TH if you think no else cares. If no one cared the game wouldn't be on the line again over at JJP.

Is the wait for Batman 66 code really that bad that you have to come in here and troll people with your time? lol

This thread is discuss Hobbit code concerns, not to troll others.

Back to ignore

The concerns are not about the number of book modes. I said "A game with 31 unique modes, several multiball modes, and 3 Arkenstone mini wizard modes, all with excellent use of licensed assets and great music / audio queues" in my original post and that the game is bursting with content. Keith has put an incredible amount of work into the game, as have others such as David Thiel and JP. Please read the original post.

Yup It's good news. I think posting concerns here and on the Google Group have been helpful as its a way to provide feedback to JJP in a positive way (well, minus Icemans trolling, lol).

I don't mind most of his posts either, its the personal attacks / name calling that are rude.

Most of the multiball overload comments come from any book mode being able to be turned into a multiball through the "Mode Lock" feature.

I don't believe there's currently a way to turn off book mode multiball. It would be nice to have an adjustment for it to set it to "off" as well as an option to "2 ball".

For Beast Frenzy there is an adjustment for making the mode more difficult to start.

Great points about Beast Frenzy. I wish that stacking between Beast Frenzy, Feast Frenzy and Smaug multiball could be turned off.

Beast Frenzy and Feast Frenzy could be far more interesting and fun modes if they could be played separately and were expanded upon to have more objective based rules.

What's nice is now we know it will happen and a time line whereas before it was as time permits which was concerning.

Keith also alluded to additional bonuses for Beast Frenzy and Super Spinner, adding champion items (not sure what those could be), and some changes regarding Akrenstone modes. All good stuff.

Having a final mode will be a huge plus to have in The Hobbit as it will give the game a complete feeling. Right now there's no reason to play through all the book modes in terms of reaching a final goal. That will all change with a final mode and have a big impact on the way the game is played.

If WOZ didn't have Somewhere over the Rainbow there wouldn't be a reason to play through and beat everything. Having that mode in the games and the qualifiers for it changed the game in a big way. Same will happen with The Hobbit by having a final mode.

A cool idea for the final mode would be to allow it to be attempted if the 3 Arkenstone modes are completed and then base scoring on how many book modes have been completed. That would provide a pretty tough challenge but not require all 31 book modes to be completed yet at the same time encourage more to be completed as it would impact scoring.

Yup, great news, 2.01 released, a smaller update but much appreciated. JJP has been listening to customers code concerns for The Hobbit based on feedback over on the Google Group. Keith and Jack have both now said that more is coming for the game

JJP_1 (resized).JPG

Here's a summary of what Keith said about the Hobbit and the changes coming to the game on the latest Head2Head pinball podcast. Sounds like very cool and welcoming changes. Please listen to the podcast as there's a lot of interesting information in it from Keith from over the course of his career.

1. Said with the Hobbit they put a ton of crap into the game, didn't want to make it the same as LOTR. Said JJP went over the top with 31 mode idea and that the whole point of the game is to give you unprecedented breadth of playability. Compared WOZ as LOTR 2.0, Hobbit as WOF 2.0.

2. Said there's so much different stuff to do in the game. Mentioned Hobbit multiballs are no slouch, said Into the Fire has 5 stages, Barrel Escape 3 or 5, and Battle of the Five armies 7 stages. Keith compared the multiball stages of the Arkenstone modes to individual modes and really the Hobbit can be considered to have 40+ modes.

Code changes

1. There and Back Again is the name of the super wizard mode. Doesn't want to give too much away but it will concentrate on beating all 31 modes. Mentioned he doesn't know if it will tie everything together (could be referring to also having to beat Arkenstone modes in addition to beat all book modes)

2. Scoring tweaks for a lot of stuff

3. Beast Multiball is being rewritten by Joe Katz and he started working on it last week. Keith said Beast MB will be a lot better

4. Behavior of game changing somewhat. The 31 book modes will have a star raiting assigned to them, 1-5. The number of stars you have completed going into an Arkenstone mode works into bonus. Also, the highest star mode beat affects scoring of your next qualified wizard mode. For example the One Ring mode, an easier mode, will likely be assigned 1 star and Keith said if that is the mode completed when you go into an Arkenstone mode your bonus won't be as high compared to going into it with a 4, or 5 star mode completed.

All of these changes sound awesome and in my opinion will lead to the Hobbit having a master code ruleset on the levels of WOZ and LOTR

No date was given but on the last POTC stream Keith said that Ted Estes has been working on the update a lot for the past couple months, that after Pirates they would be adding more and then releasing it. Keith did say on the podcast though that Joe Katz is already rewriting Beast MB so maybe it will come sooner. I'm thinking that Keith himself will be writing the code for the final wizard mode.

Update: Keith did provide a timeline at the end of the interview. He said the update will come after Pirates starts shipping and that Keith himself hasn't done the stuff yet with the game that he wants to include in the update. As mentioned previously though by Keith we know that Ted Estes has been working on the update a lot for a couple months and that Joe Katz started rewriting Beast MB last week.

Oh yeah! The wait is coming to an end. It's great to see that JJP has been listening to owner and community feedback about the games code. Looking forward to the reveal.

Here's a summary of all proposed code changes discussed by JJP over the past year.

Summary

1. From Keith last year on the JJP Google Group. "I can say I have plans for various "champion" items, some extra bonuses associated with Feast Frenzy and Super Spinner, and a final mode. Maybe some additional configuration options for more interesting game play WRT Arkenstone modes. Additional modes and multiballs apart from what I've alluded to will not be added as those were not in the design plan, and generating and getting approvals for additional assets required is problematic."

2. Keith mentioned on one of the latest POTC streams that Ted has been working on the update a lot for the past couple of months.

3. Summary of Hobbit code related comments on Head2Head pinball podcast (copied from Pinside).

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1. There and Back Again is the name of the super wizard mode. Doesn't want to give too much away but it will concentrate on beating all 31 modes. Mentioned he doesn't know if it will tie everything together (could be referring to also having to beat Arkenstone modes in addition to beat all book modes)

2. Scoring tweaks for a lot of stuff

3. Beast Multiball is being rewritten by Joe Katz and he started working on it last week. Keith said Beast MB will be a lot better

4. Behavior of game changing somewhat. The 31 book modes will have a star raiting assigned to them, 1-5. The number of stars you have completed going into an Arkenstone mode works into bonus. Also, the highest star mode beat affects scoring of your next qualified wizard mode. For example the One Ring mode, an easier mode, will likely be assigned 1 star and Keith said if that is the mode completed when you go into an Arkenstone mode your bonus won't be as high compared to going into it with a 4, or 5 star mode completed.