(Topic ID: 202161)

I hate to say it but "where's the code" JJP? #TheHobbit(updated,changes coming!)


By PanzerFreak

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 79 posts
  • 37 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by PanzerFreak
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you happy with the state of code for The Hobbit?”

  • Yes 21 votes
    23%
  • No 71 votes
    77%

(92 votes)

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There are 79 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#53 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That was your first mistake. Buy a pin based on what you think, not some sycophant.
Secondly, its NOT Keith's fault that the layout and the "geometry" SUCKS.
This game is a full blown crapper by Balcer and I'm sure largely why he was let go. Code can't fix it.
Onward and upward, looking forward to POTC! Great new designer in Eric and Lawlor coming up next.
All that's left are a few people like Panzer and RH talking to each other, nobody else cares.

Quoted from iceman44:

Like I said, TH sucks, you and RH can ponder it together.
Anybody that buys a Nib TH is a fool, easy to buy at a HUGE discount in the marketplace all day every day.

Anyone that bought a BM66 are the biggest fools in the hobby. Talk about TERRIBLE geometry and a TOTAL crapfest (not to mention the total ass-rape price of them)!

See, I can spout my opinion harshly too!

Look, TH isn’t a game for everyone and it definitely has its flaws but it’s highly ranked for good reason: it’s fun and immersive. I personally think AC/DC is a turd, but I don’t go wading into AC/DC threads to shit on it. Do everyone a favor and stay TFO of Hobbit threads, TROLL!

-5
#54 1 year ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Anyone that bought a BM66 are the biggest fools in the hobby. Talk about TERRIBLE geometry and a TOTAL crapfest (not to mention the total ass-rape price of them)!
See, I can spout my opinion harshly too!
Look, TH isn’t a game for everyone and it definitely has its flaws but it’s highly ranked for good reason: it’s fun and immersive. I personally think AC/DC is a turd, but I don’t go wading into AC/DC threads to shit on it. Do everyone a favor and stay TFO of Hobbit threads, TROLL!

No problem, you are free to voice your opinion Pimp. You think BM66 blows, that's ok, I don't whine and cry about it, TH blows, that's it.

It's just an opinion, and I don't take it that seriously like you babies do. Wtf

10
#55 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

So I see it as 3 out of 4 winners for JJP, just the facts.

I just don't get it. Why do you have to go into ALL the hobbit threads and spew your negativity.
Use your time to positive things.
We get it, if you have ever read 1 hobbit thread we have seen your extreme negativity. Just. Move. On.

#56 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's really easy & been explained tons in the threads where you bash. If you can't figure out the modes by looking at the playfield, you're being willfully ignorant.
-The Book ALWAYS tells you what to do in the mode you're in.
-ORANGE SHOTS are always your mode shots, with occasional blue shots that "unlock" orange shots.
SIMPLE.

And where do I look on the playfield to see what the ring button does at any given time? Did they color-code the actions in 2.0 for backstab, collect points, etc, or is that still only on the big screen?

-7
#57 1 year ago
Quoted from Axl:

I just don't get it. Why do you have to go into ALL the hobbit threads and spew your negativity.
Use your time to positive things.
We get it, if you have ever read 1 hobbit thread we have seen your extreme negativity. Just. Move. On.

Have you seen any of the Stern threads? I don't hang out in TH threads because i just don't care much. But i am interested when the OP who isn't afraid to voice his negative opinions as if they are fact all over the place here. Along with RH, same thing. Bunch of hypocrites. Fanboy what they like and constantly critical against everything they don't. The facts and threads speak for themselves.

Since I am getting a POTCCE, JJP is relevant to me again.

Again, its just my opinion. Just ignore it if you don't like it.

And for proper context of my own comment towards him I see the previous RH comment about me was totally deleted where he called me a "moron" and "creep" and "i was wrong about everything in life". What a nice guy.

If that's true from his perspective, then I don't ever want to be right about anything!

So carry on about complaining to JJP and Keith about TH code, I've said what I've said here as my opinion and I'm done, unless of course i get personal attacks again for merely stating my opinion.

#58 1 year ago

From owning a TH for a little bit I have to agree. While there is a lot of code it is a mutliball fest in it's current state and exhausting to play. For this game to move forward the beast frenzy really needs to be reworked and I find that much more important then a final wizard mode. I do not have a problem with some of the modes being similar but I do think the game is not very intuitive and new players have trouble knowing what to do especially in the multiballs or in the mini wizard modes. I'm not going to comment on the layout as it's been beaten to death. While code can not change the layout it can certainly continue to improve the game and some more work needs to be done on this one.

#59 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That was your first mistake. Buy a pin based on what you think, not some sycophant.
Secondly, its NOT Keith's fault that the layout and the "geometry" SUCKS.
This game is a full blown crapper by Balcer and I'm sure largely why he was let go. Code can't fix it.
Onward and upward, looking forward to POTC! Great new designer in Eric and Lawlor coming up next.
All that's left are a few people like Panzer and RH talking to each other, nobody else cares.

Interesting comment. I stated reading the op’s comments helped me make the decision to buy Hobbit not WAS the reason. Like most people I try to do reasearch on games various ways, including playing myself, plus also reading the comments ( both pro and con) of people who have played the game extensively. I certainly do not believe I have made a mistake buying Hobbit. I am pretty fortunate that I got a good deal so that my sunk cost has me still in market to re sell if I desire. The game is a favorite for my family and I am getting into it more and more as I spend the time to truely understand the rules and the game signals for shots. I also do not believe the Geometry has problems. I find that you can use the upper Flipper to advance the game, one just has to make a good shot.

I am wondering how you have decided to be so pro POTC at this point. I admit the theme is intriguing and based on my Hobbit experience it will be built very well. Watching the play on you tube , I do not believe it looks that great from a shot perspective. You nor any one has played the game so how can anyone be so sure it is a winner at this time. I hope Eric has a long and great career. But as some one who has significant experience with various types of designers, experience plays a roll in their creativity. I would certainly expect fellow designers like Lawlor to provide guidance but that all depends on the design process with in any company. I hope all new games are winners, but at this point betting CE money on this particular game is as big a risk as any game not out for public review.

Your comment on why some one left a particular company is actually the one that conerned me. Putting something like that in a public forum when you have no way of knowing the reason unless either you are the employee himself or the direct employer is a bit self serving in itself. There are lots of reasons people leave companies and most times they are driven by better prospects for the employee. I certainly hope that is the case for Mr Balcer and he should be wished well.

The point of my addition to this thread was actually in your benefit as well. Games that do not have completed code in most cases suffer in the resale market. The op pointed out several good examples. There are several situations when the code is finalized , resale values can return. Anyone who spends The type of money that is required for a new game should be concerned about code devaluation . Hobbit has depreciated , no doubt about it. JJP ( Or any company) should be concerned about that type of depreciation as it can have an impact on future NIB sales. They cannot do anything else for hobbit but improve/ finish the code. They did that with WOZ and those actions have helped resale’s in my opinion. Hobbit or POTC should be treated in a similar manner

#60 1 year ago

I understand some of you are looking for a "final wizard mode," but for those that are saying there are too many multiball I offer this. Go into the settings and make the multiballs harder to achieve. There are settings for literally everything in this game. Am I missing something else on that?

#61 1 year ago
Quoted from sulli10:

Your comment on why some one left a particular company is actually the one that conerned me. Putting something like that in a public forum when you have no way of knowing the reason unless either you are the employee himself or the direct employer is a bit self serving in itself. There are lots of reasons people leave companies and most times they are driven by better prospects for the employee. I certainly hope that is the case for Mr Balcer and he should be wished well.

I don't think blaming Balcer for the design issues is really fair. It's my understanding that he had not finished the design and much of the right side of the playfield was not designed yet when he left. Not sure if that's true or not but that I what I heard from a few different people. We do not know if Balcer left on his own or if he was forced out. Simple fact is JJP was in big trouble at that point and TH almost didn't happen. Balcer seems to be doing just fine with American Pinball and Houdini looks like it may end up pretty successful if they can get production figured out. JJP seems to have also righted the ship so all is well that ends well.

Quoted from KingPinGames:

I understand some of you are looking for a "final wizard mode," but for those that are saying there are too many multiball I offer this. Go into the settings and make the multiballs harder to achieve. There are settings for literally everything in this game. Am I missing something else on that?

My issue isn't with the number of multiballs, it is with how beast frenzy stacks and causes Smaug to be extremely had to beat and can result in 20 minutes straight of multiball. Home games can certainly change setting but most on rout will be factory. People experiencing that on rout are not likely to turn around and purchase the game. I just think beast frenzy in particular could use some work and that the game would be better if it was addressed, others might disagree.

#62 1 year ago
Quoted from KingPinGames:

I understand some of you are looking for a "final wizard mode," but for those that are saying there are too many multiball I offer this. Go into the settings and make the multiballs harder to achieve. There are settings for literally everything in this game. Am I missing something else on that?

Most of the multiball overload comments come from any book mode being able to be turned into a multiball through the "Mode Lock" feature.

I don't believe there's currently a way to turn off book mode multiball. It would be nice to have an adjustment for it to set it to "off" as well as an option to "2 ball".

For Beast Frenzy there is an adjustment for making the mode more difficult to start.

#63 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I don't think blaming Balcer for the design issues is really fair. It's my understanding that he had not finished the design and much of the right side of the playfield was not designed yet when he left. Not sure if that's true or not but that I what I heard from a few different people. We do not know if Balcer left on his own or if he was forced out. Simple fact is JJP was in big trouble at that point and TH almost didn't happen. Balcer seems to be doing just fine with American Pinball and Houdini looks like it may end up pretty successful if they can get production figured out. JJP seems to have also righted the ship so all is well that ends well.

My issue isn't with the number of multiballs, it is with how beast frenzy stacks and causes Smaug to be extremely had to beat and can result in 20 minutes straight of multiball. Home games can certainly change setting but most on rout will be factory. People experiencing that on rout are not likely to turn around and purchase the game. I just think beast frenzy in particular could use some work and that the game would be better if it was addressed, others might disagree.

Great points about Beast Frenzy. I wish that stacking between Beast Frenzy, Feast Frenzy and Smaug multiball could be turned off.

Beast Frenzy and Feast Frenzy could be far more interesting and fun modes if they could be played separately and were expanded upon to have more objective based rules.

#64 1 year ago

Think your feelings are hurt? Try owning The Hobbit and Ghostbusters. It’s like running the gauntlet with no lube.

#65 1 year ago
Quoted from sulli10:

I am wondering how you have decided to be so pro POTC at this point. I admit the theme is intriguing and based on my Hobbit experience it will be built very well. Watching the play on you tube , I do not believe it looks that great from a shot perspective. You nor any one has played the game so how can anyone be so sure it is a winner at this time.

Since you asked,

1) I have been involved with JJP from day one. A LONG journey that took me all the way through a pre paid TH up to Expo 2015. I dropped out then because of the delays and the artwork and other pins came up during that time period. And substantial changes were made thereafter which I liked but still didn't change my mind. I moved on to other games.

2) As i have repeated ad nauseum for years, the last thing anybody has to worry about with JJP is "code", certainly completion of it with Keith and team. The problem imo with TH is the layout as JG says has been beaten to death in many other threads.

3) I thought Joe was let go back then due to the financial struggles that JJP was having and wanting to go in a different direction because people weren't excited by TH layout. I was told he gave "notice" and actually resigned, so whatever the case, he's at AP now and good luck to him.

4) Pat Lawlor came in and finished up TH design, I supposed it was too late totally revamp it.

5) I own a Balcer designed Woz which i love, and I personally LOATHE the theme of DI so i didn't get it despite being a Lawlor fan.

6) From what i have seen, I really like the POTC design, features and theme, so I bought one. And i have no doubt about how the code will go, just like with Lyman. Nobody said it was a guarantee to be great. But I like it, period.

7) You got to buy TH at a discount because of most people's opinion of it. And they continue to hit the market, steeply discounted. If you like it, that's all that matters

Finally, for myself, it came down to the delays and the layout primarily and now complaining about finishing code to a guy like Keith seems somewhat hilarious to me, especially coming from the OP.

#66 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Having an unfinished game isn’t really acceptable given what these cost. i

Keith Johnson has said the code is complete.

He wants to add a final wizard mode if he has time, but he never promised it would happen.

A final wizard mode won't really change the rules of the game.

If you don't like the code as it is, waiting for more code might just be a waste of time.

#67 1 year ago
Quoted from RTS:

Keith Johnson has said the code is complete.
He wants to add a final wizard mode if he has time, but he never promised it would happen.
A final wizard mode won't really change the rules of the game.
If you don't like the code as it is, waiting for more code might just be a waste of time.

What's nice is now we know it will happen and a time line whereas before it was as time permits which was concerning.

Keith also alluded to additional bonuses for Beast Frenzy and Super Spinner, adding champion items (not sure what those could be), and some changes regarding Akrenstone modes. All good stuff.

Having a final mode will be a huge plus to have in The Hobbit as it will give the game a complete feeling. Right now there's no reason to play through all the book modes in terms of reaching a final goal. That will all change with a final mode and have a big impact on the way the game is played.

If WOZ didn't have Somewhere over the Rainbow there wouldn't be a reason to play through and beat everything. Having that mode in the games and the qualifiers for it changed the game in a big way. Same will happen with The Hobbit by having a final mode.

A cool idea for the final mode would be to allow it to be attempted if the 3 Arkenstone modes are completed and then base scoring on how many book modes have been completed. That would provide a pretty tough challenge but not require all 31 book modes to be completed yet at the same time encourage more to be completed as it would impact scoring.

#68 1 year ago

Straight from the horses mouth...from another site...

Keith P. Johnson
Nov 8 (21 hours ago)
Hi everyone.

We appreciate your feedback and thoughts and are glad you're interested in the game. There will be another Hobbit release, but it won't get major time spent on it until POTC comes out as all of our efforts are going to that right now. I would expect it to be in line with my previously stated (and requoted) statements.

2 weeks later
#69 1 year ago

Having a mode (there and back again?) for starting all the book modes would be perfect. Success/Completion of elf, dwarf, man, gandalf, radagast modes could be the baseline for scoring in that mode as well. This would encourage completing modes and could be a viable strategy for points combined with the already added (and awesome!) map and feeder bonuses.

Into the fire, barrel escape and battle of five armies are awesome as is! So many levels and parts to get through. With so many parts of each mode, I'd love to be able to make the choice when you get to an arkenstone mode to either continue whichever one I was on or to move on to the next one. There could then be a hurry-up or bonus mode for starting all three or finishing all three with a much bigger reward for completion.

Just my two cents... I know Keith is crushed with code demands and he has spoken about where expectations should be. I love the game as it sits and was just stewing about cool add ons that would make it even greater. Hats off Keith for everything that you've packed into the game.

3 weeks later
#71 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

The biggest problem with The Hobbit is the physical design is just boring. They can dress the software up with 30+ same-y modes, but it's just a grind, and very same-y, and not that fun.

Quoted from iceman44:

I agree about the drop targets, its different. But Keith could code this thing for the rest of his life and it can't change the layout!

Iceman44, I see that you own a WPT. That pin seemed like a wide open, heavily drop target based title that I didn't give much thought to until a friend started sharing the depth of the rule set. From what I understand, that is a killer title if you are looking for KJ depth. Could TH not be similar, possibly better in that respect, especially with Keith AND Ted on board?

I can't speak to either WPT or TH so just looking for thoughts on that as WPT is not a title that I would have ever considered owning, initially on theme alone but secondly because of the open PF.

#72 1 year ago

Yup, great news, 2.01 released, a smaller update but much appreciated. JJP has been listening to customers code concerns for The Hobbit based on feedback over on the Google Group. Keith and Jack have both now said that more is coming for the game

JJP_1 (resized).JPG

#73 1 year ago

Nice. How did I miss that a new code has been released?? Nice Christmas gift. Thanks JJP. I really like the game since day one. The sound is great. And I like the shot layout (not as many others). There's a lot going on and for each game you can focus on something new like finishing one of the modes and so on. I am really looking forward to an end game and some rewards for book modes. Good to hear they are working on it. Thanks JJP.

4 months later
#74 1 year ago

Here's a summary of what Keith said about the Hobbit and the changes coming to the game on the latest Head2Head pinball podcast. Sounds like very cool and welcoming changes. Please listen to the podcast as there's a lot of interesting information in it from Keith from over the course of his career.

1. Said with the Hobbit they put a ton of crap into the game, didn't want to make it the same as LOTR. Said JJP went over the top with 31 mode idea and that the whole point of the game is to give you unprecedented breadth of playability. Compared WOZ as LOTR 2.0, Hobbit as WOF 2.0.

2. Said there's so much different stuff to do in the game. Mentioned Hobbit multiballs are no slouch, said Into the Fire has 5 stages, Barrel Escape 3 or 5, and Battle of the Five armies 7 stages. Keith compared the multiball stages of the Arkenstone modes to individual modes and really the Hobbit can be considered to have 40+ modes.

Code changes

1. There and Back Again is the name of the super wizard mode. Doesn't want to give too much away but it will concentrate on beating all 31 modes. Mentioned he doesn't know if it will tie everything together (could be referring to also having to beat Arkenstone modes in addition to beat all book modes)

2. Scoring tweaks for a lot of stuff

3. Beast Multiball is being rewritten by Joe Katz and he started working on it last week. Keith said Beast MB will be a lot better

4. Behavior of game changing somewhat. The 31 book modes will have a star raiting assigned to them, 1-5. The number of stars you have completed going into an Arkenstone mode works into bonus. Also, the highest star mode beat affects scoring of your next qualified wizard mode. For example the One Ring mode, an easier mode, will likely be assigned 1 star and Keith said if that is the mode completed when you go into an Arkenstone mode your bonus won't be as high compared to going into it with a 4, or 5 star mode completed.

All of these changes sound awesome and in my opinion will lead to the Hobbit having a master code ruleset on the levels of WOZ and LOTR

#75 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Here's a summary of what Keith said about the Hobbit and the changes coming to the game on the latest Head2Head pinball podcast. Sounds like very cool and welcoming changes. Please listen to the podcast as there's a lot of interesting information in it from Keith from over the course of his career.
1. Said with the Hobbit they put a ton of crap into the game, didn't want to make it the same as LOTR. Said JJP went over the top with 31 mode idea and that the whole point of the game is to give you unprecedented breadth of playability. Compared WOZ as LOTR 2.0, Hobbit as WOF 2.0.
2. Said there's so much different stuff to do in the game. Mentioned Hobbit multiballs are no slouch, said Into the Fire has 5 stages, Barrel Escape 3 or 5, and Battle of the Five armies 7 stages. Keith compared the multiball stages of the Arkenstone modes to individual modes and really the Hobbit can be considered to have 40+ modes.
Code changes
1. There and Back Again is the name of the super wizard mode. Doesn't want to give too much away but it will concentrate on beating all 31 modes. Mentioned he doesn't know if it will tie everything together (could be referring to also having to beat Arkenstone modes in addition to beat all book modes)
2. Scoring tweaks for a lot of stuff
3. Beast Multiball is being rewritten by Joe Katz and he started working on it last week. Keith said Beast MB will be a lot better
4. Behavior of game changing somewhat. The 31 book modes will have a star raiting assigned to them, 1-5. The number of stars you have completed going into an Arkenstone mode works into bonus. Also, the highest star mode beat affects scoring of your next qualified wizard mode. For example the One Ring mode, an easier mode, will likely be assigned 1 star and Keith said if that is the mode completed when you go into an Arkenstone mode your bonus won't be as high compared to going into it with a 4, or 5 star mode completed.
All of these changes sound awesome and in my opinion will lead to the Hobbit having a master code ruleset on the levels of WOZ and LOTR

This all sounds great. Did he give any indication when we might see these updates? Last we heard it was in the spring after POTC shipped. Has that changed to summer or even fall?

#76 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

This all sounds great. Did he give any indication when we might see these updates? Last we heard it was in the spring after POTC shipped. Has that changed to summer or even fall?

No date was given but on the last POTC stream Keith said that Ted Estes has been working on the update a lot for the past couple months, that after Pirates they would be adding more and then releasing it. Keith did say on the podcast though that Joe Katz is already rewriting Beast MB so maybe it will come sooner. I'm thinking that Keith himself will be writing the code for the final wizard mode.

Update: Keith did provide a timeline at the end of the interview. He said the update will come after Pirates starts shipping and that Keith himself hasn't done the stuff yet with the game that he wants to include in the update. As mentioned previously though by Keith we know that Ted Estes has been working on the update a lot for a couple months and that Joe Katz started rewriting Beast MB last week.

1 month later
#77 11 months ago

From the JJP Live thread:

Not streaming today, but we have something special planned for next week Friday.

New. Hobbit. Code.

LIVESTREAM. @3pm Central 07/06/2018 on https://www.twitch.tv/jjplive

#78 11 months ago

Can’t wait

#79 11 months ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

From the JJP Live thread:
Not streaming today, but we have something special planned for next week Friday.
New. Hobbit. Code.
LIVESTREAM. @3pm Central 07/06/2018 on https://www.twitch.tv/jjplive

Oh yeah! The wait is coming to an end. It's great to see that JJP has been listening to owner and community feedback about the games code. Looking forward to the reveal.

Here's a summary of all proposed code changes discussed by JJP over the past year.

Summary

1. From Keith last year on the JJP Google Group. "I can say I have plans for various "champion" items, some extra bonuses associated with Feast Frenzy and Super Spinner, and a final mode. Maybe some additional configuration options for more interesting game play WRT Arkenstone modes. Additional modes and multiballs apart from what I've alluded to will not be added as those were not in the design plan, and generating and getting approvals for additional assets required is problematic."

2. Keith mentioned on one of the latest POTC streams that Ted has been working on the update a lot for the past couple of months.

3. Summary of Hobbit code related comments on Head2Head pinball podcast (copied from Pinside).

***

1. There and Back Again is the name of the super wizard mode. Doesn't want to give too much away but it will concentrate on beating all 31 modes. Mentioned he doesn't know if it will tie everything together (could be referring to also having to beat Arkenstone modes in addition to beat all book modes)

2. Scoring tweaks for a lot of stuff

3. Beast Multiball is being rewritten by Joe Katz and he started working on it last week. Keith said Beast MB will be a lot better

4. Behavior of game changing somewhat. The 31 book modes will have a star raiting assigned to them, 1-5. The number of stars you have completed going into an Arkenstone mode works into bonus. Also, the highest star mode beat affects scoring of your next qualified wizard mode. For example the One Ring mode, an easier mode, will likely be assigned 1 star and Keith said if that is the mode completed when you go into an Arkenstone mode your bonus won't be as high compared to going into it with a 4, or 5 star mode completed.

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