(Topic ID: 112585)

I had a revelation...

By swampfire

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 9 years ago by snyper2099
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    #1 9 years ago

    I may never buy another DMD, new or used. Likewise I think I'm done with EMs (unless a Quick Draw, Strange World or Jungle Princess/Queen come my way). From now on, it's only 1979-1989. What this means is that I can get off the hype train for good, enjoy some older games for nice prices, and work on my restoration skills. I'm pretty psyched about this decision.

    #2 9 years ago

    System 11s all the way

    #3 9 years ago

    I hope to be bringing in a 1981 Stern and a 1985 Game Plan soon. Deal pending...

    #4 9 years ago

    System 3 through 9 were pretty epic too.

    #5 9 years ago

    Bang for the buck = system 11

    #6 9 years ago

    Never say never

    I like a well rounded collection
    you don't have to buy all new sterns, you don't just have to own wedgeheads
    if a game is fun, then I will add it to the list

    #7 9 years ago

    The only problem with older games is the parts supply drying up for repairs, especially the electronics components.

    #8 9 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The only problem with older games is the parts supply drying up for repairs, especially the electronics components.

    This is true. I have Space Shuttle. System 9. Praying the boards dont die one day. Very hard to get.

    #9 9 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    if a game is fun, then I will add it to the list

    I think this is truly the point.

    #10 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I may never buy another DMD, new or used. Likewise I think I'm done with EMs (unless a Quick Draw, Strange World or Jungle Princess/Queen come my way). From now on, it's only 1979-1989. What this means is that I can get off the hype train for good, enjoy some older games for nice prices, and work on my restoration skills. I'm pretty psyched about this decision.

    Great era for pinball. Classic Sterns, Bally early solid states and Williams. So many good titles from this period. So many innovations and new features! The emergence of the solid state machine changed everything. Good for you.

    #11 9 years ago

    Are you trying to drum up hype for these titles?

    #12 9 years ago

    My collection is almost entirely void of this era. I've got 3 EMs + 5 DMD + Fathom.

    I've definitely been looking to crack into System 11s.

    #13 9 years ago
    Quoted from SUPERBEE:

    This is true. I have Space Shuttle. System 9. Praying the boards dont die one day. Very hard to get.

    Doesn't some company make reproduction boards?

    #14 9 years ago

    Oh don't limit yourself. There are great games from a lot of different eras of pinball. I've got from wedgehead to a 2014 Stern. As Pete said, a fun one is a fun one. Just buy them later when they are built and the code is good.

    #15 9 years ago

    You can easily fill a gameroom from the Silver Age of pinball. LOTS of very entertaining and fun games out there from that period.

    #16 9 years ago
    Quoted from Syco54645:

    Doesn't some company make reproduction boards?

    Not that I know of. The issue is there were only three System 9 games at all, and one bowler that used them. Shuttle, Sorcerer, and Comet.

    #17 9 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Not that I know of. The issue is there were only three System 9 games at all, and one bowler that used them. Shuttle, Sorcerer, and Comet.

    If Jeff finally pulls it off this won't be an issue (though it has been a long time coming).

    http://pinballpcb.com/System9-11cMainBoard.html

    I assume since he hasn't taken the page down that it's still in the works...

    viperrwk

    #18 9 years ago

    I kind-of came to this same conclusion naturally as well. I bounced through all eras for a bit - even came super close to getting some NIB, but just keep coming back to early SS. Love everything about this era.

    I'm still looking for a few EMs and a couple system 11s, - and I'm always open to trying out something I haven't played before, but I'm pretty comfortable with where my anchor rests now.

    #19 9 years ago
    Quoted from viperrwk:

    If Jeff finally pulls it off this won't be an issue (though it has been a long time coming).
    http://pinballpcb.com/System9-11cMainBoard.html
    I assume since he hasn't taken the page down that it's still in the works...
    viperrwk

    I was thinking that there was one in the works somewhere but I couldn't remember for sure.

    #20 9 years ago
    Quoted from FathomPin:

    Are you trying to drum up hype for these titles?

    If I was smart I would have kept it to myself.

    #21 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I hope to be bringing in a 1981 Stern and a 1985 Game Plan soon. Deal pending...

    Lady Sharpshooter? Niiiiice.

    #22 9 years ago

    System 11 MPUs can be used in System 9 games. I have a SYS11B in my Comet currently.

    For SYS11, you may need to do the ground mods (this is the only revision I have no tried in my Comet)
    For SYS11a/A, nothing is needed other than conversion of the EPROMs to 27256 format.
    For SYS11b, you need to populate a small area of the audio section. Usually just a few caps, resistors, TDA2002/3 amp, opamps and/or D/A converter. About $10 of parts to stuff.
    For SYS11c, you have to populate the entire audio section and install jumpers into DA2

    #23 9 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    Lady Sharpshooter? Niiiiice.

    Andromeda - I can say it now that the deal is safely done.

    #24 9 years ago

    Given swampfire's collection ,he's already got a few newer Stern DMDs (though notably no B/W DMD - RFM doesn't count). His collection is eclectic and superb though and in stellar condition.

    I can't think of any era I wouldn't like to have around really. Just don't have the room that some of these guys have.

    One guy about 2 hours from me has a fantastic collection. Really no 'A' B/W titles, but his collection, chronologically arranged, goes from the 60s to the 90s and is really immaculate and fun. It's great to go 'down the line' and play something from each era. Variety is the spice...

    My revelation might be that it is possible that I like to work on machines (ie. get them going) just a tad more than playing, and considering how much I like to play, that says something about working on machines.

    Tying in to this thread, it seems from the first machine that got me into this (Space Invaders) 18 months ago to now (just brought a Mata Hari to life last night) Bally early SS are becoming my sweet spot. The feeling of resurrecting a dead MPU is pretty cool. Now I'm trying to fix a Sys 11B with a line of problems. So I can understand your desire to work on your restoration skills, which I can say are already pretty damn fine.

    #25 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Andromeda - I can say it now that the deal is safely done.

    Noice, would love one of those. Only have a lowly Cyclopes over here...

    #26 9 years ago

    Welcome to the party. I think there is still some beer left in the keg.

    Dave (Doc)

    Quoted from swampfire:

    I may never buy another DMD, new or used. Likewise I think I'm done with EMs (unless a Quick Draw, Strange World or Jungle Princess/Queen come my way). From now on, it's only 1979-1989. What this means is that I can get off the hype train for good, enjoy some older games for nice prices, and work on my restoration skills. I'm pretty psyched about this decision.

    #27 9 years ago
    Quoted from shimoda:

    Given swampfire's collection ,he's already got a few newer Stern DMDs (though notably no B/W DMD - RFM doesn't count).

    I have three (DH, JM and Congo), but I'll have to sell 1-2 DMDs to make room for the new herd of SS games coming in (I haven't decided which ones yet). NASCAR surprised me; I bought it planning to flip it, but it's really good if you can get past the theme - especially for the price.

    #28 9 years ago

    Never say never......I guess you did throw a "may" in there.

    My first pin was a F-14 Tomcat.....great game. It's gone now and currently I have nothing from the eighties. Just DMD's and one old EM. Buddy of mine has some of the "best of the best" 80's pins though so I can get my fill over there.

    #29 9 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    My first pin was a F-14 Tomcat

    My first also. Still have it and it will never leave my house

    #30 9 years ago

    I just noticed that I never seem to play my DMDs anymore (except IM and Nascar). Maybe it's because I'm easily amused and have a short attention span, but I like the quick and simple challenges I get from my SS games. BK is my first pin (1998) and I'm still loving it.

    #31 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I just noticed that I never seem to play my DMDs anymore (except IM and Nascar). Maybe it's because I'm easily amused and have a short attention span, but I like the quick and simple challenges I get from my SS games. BK is my first pin (1998) and I'm still loving it.

    I usually don't have long periods of time to play games, so my collection of 80's era games is perfect for a few short games a few times a week.

    #32 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I just noticed that I never seem to play my DMDs anymore (except IM and Nascar). Maybe it's because I'm easily amused and have a short attention span, but I like the quick and simple challenges I get from my SS games. BK is my first pin (1998) and I'm still loving it.

    i get likeing the ss games, and i see bang for the buck issues and slowing up in dmds- but im not sure why you seem dislike most em's.

    #33 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I may never buy another DMD, new or used. Likewise I think I'm done with EMs (unless a Quick Draw, Strange World or Jungle Princess/Queen come my way). From now on, it's only 1979-1989. What this means is that I can get off the hype train for good, enjoy some older games for nice prices, and work on my restoration skills. I'm pretty psyched about this decision.

    While I'm mostly a DMD guy, I do have BK2K and BOP & love them...I think the 80's games are very charming era for pinball!

    #34 9 years ago
    Quoted from lladnip:

    i get likeing the ss games, and i see bang for the buck issues and slowing up in dmds- but im not sure why you seem dislike most em's.

    I love EMs, but I feel like I have enough now, and there's nothing I see as a "must have". My core EM collection is C37, Jumping Jack, and Abra Ca Dabra. The others will probably go.

    #35 9 years ago

    I'm a DMD guy not because I love the DMDs but because I like the (often) feel of this generation and all the neato stuff on the playfields. However, earlier than DMD games are great and I think someone would be a bit crazy to complain about them simply because they don't have a DMD.

    That said, I'd like to point out that a FunHouse with a DMD has absolutely no interest for me. So the DMD really doesn't make or break a game, IMHO. The vast majority of the gameplay should be focused on the playfield.

    #36 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I love EMs, but I feel like I have enough now, and there's nothing I see as a "must have". My core EM collection is C37, Jumping Jack, and Abra Ca Dabra. The others will probably go.

    These are three really complimentary EMs. Love them all. Still thinking about picking up Jack in the Box... Really want a wedgehead though, so much less width in the gameroom.

    After looking at ipdb, not surprised at all that it's a Krynski design, what a genius of simple but fantastic layouts. I just wish there were a wedgehead version of JITB

    #37 9 years ago

    I'm not ready to hate on DMDs yet, I still like them - especially those under $2500.

    But there are some attributes that make SS pins different from DMD:

    * Exceptional art (Fathom, Paragon)
    * Cool unlicensed themes (scifi, mythology,fantasy...)
    * Background sounds that get higher the better you do
    * Bonus count-downs
    * Physical locks
    * Inventive layouts that defy convention

    Some DMDs have a few of these things, but many SS pins have all of them.

    #38 9 years ago

    I am pretty happy with my DMD collection as it stands right now. Not really looking to get any more. Maybe I will let one or two go.

    I still have a couple of more EMs that are coming and always leave the option open if a nice vintage (early 60s and prior) Williams or Gottlieb comes my way.

    As far as more solid states are concerned, I have a couple in mind including an F-14. but I don't really care for the sound effects on most of the early ones. Some of them do have stunning artwork and good gameplay though.

    #39 9 years ago

    Please post this with a bit more context to the System 11 thread. (perhaps you already have)
    thank you,
    -mof

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11-clubchairman of the board.jpegchairman of the board.jpeg

    #40 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    There are some attributes that make SS pins different from DMD:
    * Exceptional art (Fathom, Paragon)
    * Cool unlicensed themes (scifi, mythology,fantasy...)
    * Background sounds that get higher the better you do
    * Bonus count-downs
    * Physical locks
    * Inventive layouts that defy convention
    Some DMDs have a few of these things, but many SS pins have all of them.

    Swampfire.
    WORD.

    (1980-1990) is the bomb.
    1981 is the sweet spot.

    * I can't take 1978-79 games too well since the sounds are too calculator blip-bleep-bloop for my tastes
    * I am put off by "most" DMDs for endless reasons. Yes, I miss out on the deep rule sets of modern games, there is no pretending otherwise. But I enjoy the more challenging defensive layouts of the early 80's games -- I'm always trying to refine my statement that sums up why I prefer a short ball time / defensive layout versus a long ball time / offensive layout..."

    "I prefer to be amused by the challenge of controlling the movement of the ball -- the *physics* of the table that the designer has laid out, over being amused by the *imagination* of the programmer who coded the deep rules and modes who grants you access to his world via the DMD if you can play long enough (30-60 minutes+) to see everything he's coded (and remember to look up AWAY from the actual game frequently enough to witness all the fancy animations...)"

    Still working on that statement, but I think it sums up my entire stance on pinball design...

    In short:

    Reality (physics) > Fantasy (imagination)

    This is the very reason I QUIT video games after 30 years, and moved to pinball. I shifted from preferring interacting with reality MORE than dabbling in imagination. This is one reason why I shy away from the "hybrids" as I call them. (DMDs)

    -mof

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    #41 9 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    I prefer a short ball time

    Quoted from mof:

    I prefer to be amused by the challenge of controlling the movement of the ball -- the *physics* of the table that the designer has laid out

    These are two of the major reasons I prefer early games with two inch flippers.

    #42 9 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    These are two of the major reasons I prefer early games with two inch flippers.

    Yeah, I can't STAND how weak the old flippers are in EMs, it's like driving a 1-cylinder car for me (after driving a V8 all day long). I hope some day I can get over that and enjoy an EM, cause they look and sound so cool, and there's so much invention in EMs. In the meantime, I know it's blasphemy, but I hope someone rigs up a few EMS with stronger flippers. Just a wish.

    -mof

    #43 9 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Yeah, I can't STAND how weak the old flippers are in EMs,

    The Williams games came with much stronger short flippers, which is one of the reasons I gravitate towards those.

    #44 9 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    "I prefer to be amused by the challenge of controlling the movement of the ball -- the *physics* of the table that the designer has laid out, more than being amused by the *imagination* of the programmer who coded the deep rules and modes who grants you access to his world via the DMD if you can play long enough (30-60 minutes+) to see everything he's coded..."
    Still working on that statement, but I think it sums up my entire stance on pinball design...
    -mof

    There are still plenty of DMD games that fit that definition. I myself prefer the shorter ball time games....which is why LOTR is long gone and IM is at the top of my want list.

    #45 9 years ago

    Swampfire,

    Yes on all points. One of the reasons I think Krynski was such a genius, a fantastic plethora of layouts that really exploited the physics of movement at any speed and some of these machines are faster than imaginable.

    Don't fully agree with the reduction of defensive/offensive as in reality DMDs are solid state machines, anything after EM is Solid State but we talk about DMDs as if they are not. System 11s are enjoyable partly because they were in the transition time between the early SS machines that emphasized great layouts (mostly on single layer and thus more EM feeling in physics) and the later DMDs that started moving more and more towards 'flow' in many cases.

    It's a wonderful thing about pinball that a collection spanning just 20-30 years can easily hold the best of all worlds.

    As far as strenghtening EM flippers, plenty of options from high tapping to half or full rectifying and possibly changing coils. Don't be surprised when that nice EM playfield suddenly starts looking like an early Bally/Stern SS.

    #46 9 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    In the meantime, I know it's blasphemy, but I hope someone rigs up a few EMS with stronger flippers. Just a wish.

    Another thing people do is switch the lug on the transformer to "high tap" which increases the voltage. Some of the very last EMs had DC flipper coils and are very powerful, but I still prefer the early 2 inchers myself.
    Edit- already mentioned above.

    #47 9 years ago

    I suggest adding a Top Score, Card Whiz, Quick Draw and a Bow & Arrow.

    Dave (Doc)

    Quoted from swampfire:

    I love EMs, but I feel like I have enough now, and there's nothing I see as a "must have". My core EM collection is C37, Jumping Jack, and Abra Ca Dabra. The others will probably go.

    #48 9 years ago

    I love the feel any game from the 80's gives off. It's like you went back in time.

    #49 9 years ago

    You really need to do yourself a favor and play a fully restored EM with rebuilt flippers and maybe some orange dot ones if playing a Gottlieb EM.

    No weak flippers on my restored EMs. =)

    Dave (Doc)

    (Restored EMs in my collection: Card Whiz,Top Score,Quick Draw,Bow and Arrow,Captain Fantastic)

    Quoted from mof:

    Yeah, I can't STAND how weak the old flippers are in EMs, it's like driving a 1-cylinder car for me (after driving a V8 all day long). I hope some day I can get over that and enjoy an EM, cause they look and sound so cool, and there's so much invention in EMs. In the meantime, I know it's blasphemy, but I hope someone rigs up a few EMS with stronger flippers. Just a wish.
    -mof

    #50 9 years ago

    If every shot can be made with a well-aimed flip, stronger flippers are not needed on EMs.

    I went through the same thing when I got back into EMs - they felt DIFFERENT than SS or DMD, so I wanted to boost the strength of the flippers. After about 6 months of playing them, I realized that the "EM feel" is just different, not bad. It did take a while to get to that point.

    There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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