Church MUST have general liability no? At a minimum?

Congrats on hitting your $5,000 goal. Wishing you a speedy and full recovery.

People keep saying things like this. Not all churches run as big businesses. Many small churches rely on volunteer workers, donations, etc. In many instances, you can literally see a large sign when you walk in the door stating exactly how much is in the reserve account, how much was collected on a given Sunday, etc. Additionally, in many of these instances they have meetings explaining penny for penny where the money that did go out, went to.

Additionally, despite the stigma, very few churches require anything, from anyone, and are solely voluntary in terms of monetary donations, labor donations, etc. This really sounds like a bad situation that happened to a good person.

I personally dont attend church, but used to, and that's how it always was. You certainly have every right to question things, I just wanted to explain it isnt like a normal "business" so to speak.

At any rate, they’re crazy if they didn’t carry basic liability. Anybody that’s owned a home knows how vulnerable you are without coverage.

Not disputing this in the least! I absolutely agree, didnt mean for it to come off wrong. Anytime you have a building allowing the general public inside you need liability.

agreed.

I would think so also. You have the general public visiting on a daily basis..

woody76 you know that paying for your healthcare premiums through your job is a de facto tax right? the only difference is it goes to a private for-profit company that will do it's very best to reject any healthcare claims you try to make.

If I was the OP, I would immediately inquire about the church's liability insurance, and potentially retain a lawyer. Whether they have insurance or not - the OP needs to ask. His situation is exactly why non-profit organizations carry liability insurance.

https://www.farmers.com/business/industry/religious-organizations/

https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/home-and-property/associations-organizations/church-insurance

I was responding to a poster using the exact same rhetorical language they utilized.

What you pay in taxes and what you think is onerous is your business or your fathers in this case.

I'm generally happy with the insurance and healthcare I receive as part of my salary package and that's my business and one reason I took the job. I have zero interest in the government taking healthcare over because in the 5 decades spent on this spinning globe if there is one thing I have learned.. The government will piss away any and all money and produce little at a rate that is astounding.

Working in healthcare I can assure you things would only improve if the government wasn't involved, the amount of money and man hours that is wasted is astronomical. My parents didn't have insurance when I was a kid, doctors were cheap enough you could actual deal in cash.

Lawyers & lawmakers (but I repeat myself) have largely ruined that.

I have heard numerous stories about the poor quality of health care in Canada. People are on year long waiting lists for cancer treatments, literally dying while waiting....

No thanks.

OR... you could simply move your goalpost from 5K to 15K. As he has now done.

Imagine he drops a deposit on a new Stranger Things? lol haha

Sorry to hear about your accident, OP. Hope you heal up quickly!

It is true that not all churches are rolling in money, and some hardly have any. But just about any church should have some sort of liability insurance, and this is worth looking into as the OP already said he would.

Also a good reminder for all of us, whether we currently have insurance or not, just how quickly and easily you can have an accident that can put a wrench in your financial situation. It's easy to think "ah this couldn't happen to me" or "ah I would be fine" until one day it does and perhaps you end up learning about the finely printed terms or who is liable for what in an unfavorable way. Always worth checking up on those things every once and a while...

Even if they have liability, it doesn't mean the insurance company would pay. If they decided to fight it, then where would the OP be? The church would have to be deemed liable for their insurance to pay. Liability doesn't necessarily cover errors in judgment, and if the OP was at fault, liability won't necessarily come into play. Or what if they decide to jack the rates because of a claim? People think insurance companies just pay out whenever someone sticks their had out, and I can absolutely tell you from someone that has testified in many civil cases, it's just not that easy.

My girlfriend is basically uninsurable...she works in healthcare and her profession often does not offer employer based health insurance plans in my state since it is not required for businesses under 25 employees. Due to her past injury, a basic plan on the exchange is upwards of $1000/month, and off the exchange isn't even offered plans. That isnt in her budget whatsoever. Short term plans are not even available to people in her age bracket in my state. Ill gladly play more tax if it means people like her dont have to consider bankruptcy and losing homes when needing necessary medical care. I realize its easy to say you think the insurance system is great when your employer covers 80% or more of your premium, but that isnt the case for many Americans.

What makes you think a Government run system will help her? Anything run by the government is worse... Also, the tax increase over years could very well cause people to lose their homes.. and then still have bad healthcare..

Nope, it is part of your compensation package generally speaking.

I'll point out historically that healthcare was generally not linked to employers. It started to be offered as a perk when the government raised taxes on salaries over "x" amount of dollars and punishing taxes kicked in helping themselves to any extra funds you may have earned.

Healthcare was exempt from taxes then so it was a perk to entice employees since offering more money was contuer-productive.

Ronald Reagan was once asked why he didn't make more than two movies a year during a certain time period, he responded that the government would effectively seize any monies earned from the third movie via taxes so why work for free?

+1

Society doesn't benefit when a taxpayer goes into lifelong debt simply because of an illness or an accident to themselves or a member of their family.

I don't know about where you live, but where I live, the community right next to me has public supplied electricity. The public supplied electricity rates have not come anywhere close to the rate increases I am receiving in my private supplied electricity (with zero competition) year after year.

One of these has a goal of making money, while the other has a goal of breaking even.

Out of curiosity, instead of asking to be taxed more by the government, why not help her pay the monthly cost of insurance, or encourage her to find a new job with a health plan that will benefit her?

Another repeated falsehood. When my dad had a detached retina they immediately transported him to Montreal to have emergency surgery. He's been well taken care of. Got any stories about healthcare nightmares here in the good ol' USA?

I live in one of the most taxed areas in the country and its pure crap. That is why I am so against more taxes. They just piss that money away and always want more.

Its not a falsehood. Its the truth.

Any healthcare is better than no healthcare. She currently has the latter. She was lucky enough to have the option of draining $120,000 out of her retirement to have a shot at being able to walk on her own again. Good times!

Seems slightly simplistic...I like and think are generally well run: police, fire, National highways, parks, libraries, the military, safe cheap food supply, just to name a few!

Be positive!

Get well soon!

I haven't paid attention to the whole thread, but saw it was at $15K when I saw someone post it on Facebook last night.

Heres a good article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2018/06/11/canadians-are-one-in-a-million-while-waiting-for-medical-treatment/#4deccd9e3e7d

What makes you think we are not working on that now? Must be nice to be able to paint the world with a single brush while sitting in your ivory tower.

I guess you live in a nicer part of the country than me... These things are not well run and due to that, they need more taxes every year.. Which of course means less in your pocket.

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-sick-around-the-world/

His point being, its better to keep the money within your family vs. giving it to the government who can choose to do what they want with it.

A detached retina is always considered emergency surgery so it HAS to be done right away. I don't want to get involved in nationalistic bickering but this procedure will always put you in front of the sometimes lengthy ques. True in the US, UK and yes... even Canada

My point is the example you give doesn't disprove long waits for other types of surgical procedures. Glad to hear about your Dad's health.

.

Nah... Somebody even recently complimented him on making his 5K goal. It was a 5K goal when he started this thread.

When you get government healthcare that you are taxed out the ass for, and then they deny you.... That is worse than having no health care.

Live in Connecticut which has 3 and half million residents.. and spends $21.7 Billion a year.

And its broke lol. Lovely politicians.... We used to be one of the richest states. Now its turning into a shithole.

Agreed, but that is no different than the private healthcare we have now. It is embarrassing how the insurance industry has taken over calling the shots over the doctors and denying procedures/claims that effects their bottom line. There is no simple solution, but shareholders/profit margins on healthcare just seems to be contradictory.

Because I don't know you and you didn't mention it; hence why I asked the question.

You're right. I'm incredibly naive, have no problems of my own, and think everything is easy from this "ivory tower" I live in.

Sounds like the ER doctors committed malpractice by not relocating the dislocations before "releasing" him. If he has complications and thus can show damages for their breach of the standard of care, perhaps you could come testify as an expert witness.

I'm sure the Church will do what they can. I know that there has been at least 2 real attorneys who have posted here, along with a host of other non-licensed internet lawyers... So a question for you guys: If the Church did nothing to contribute to his injury, if there was no hidden defect that the church either knew about or should have known about, if he assumed the risk of climbing a ladder and fell for no reason other than by his own mistake, WHY would the church be liable? Assuming they even had insurance, would that insurance provide coverage for injury caused by any reason provided it happened on church property?

I can say this, OP is as honest as the day is long. He is the real deal. I know him personally and can confirm that there has been no embellishment regarding this incident or his injuries. Although I live one state over, we became acquainted following him purchasing a machine that I was selling. Since then, we have had the opportunity to become good friends and he has helped me on numerous occasions, and I have personally observed him helping countless others and never asking for or expecting a thing in return. When I bought a Freddy pin sight unseen and it arrived with a roached playfield, he volunteered to fix it for me. Not for any compensation or recognition, but just to help a bummed out friend. No telling how many hours he spent: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/freddy-nightmare-on-elm-street-playfield-scan

When I told him that my Fishtales Pin was one that would never leave my possession because it was one my wife purchased for me, he insisted on bringing it back to its former glory. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/something-smells-fishy-fishtales-restore-speaker-panel-sidelight-mod. Again, his only motive was to share his skills with someone who probably would not have the means to do it himself. Just like when he helped a KLOV member who had spent over 2 years trying to build his "grail" video arcade game but was unable to do so after financial setback and lack of resources. A 1 day build that won best of show at the Southern Fried Gameroom Expo, which was a dream come true and probably still one of the greatest accomplishments for the owner. https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=392576&page=10

I bet I could type all day, but you get the point. He has always done for others, and has paid forward for a long time. Never met a man more devoted to church and family. His injuries are real, his fears are as real, and his sincerity is real. Wish I could do more for him, but I'll do everything I can because he deserves help and he is a good person.

Wonder why someone else also complimented you on reaching your 5K goal then? I didn't see it later on FB. I saw the original gofundme when you put it up.

In any case you've done pretty darn well for yourself. I don't begrudge you for keeping it going.

No wonder you guys are so salty. Politics aside I think we can all agree that Connecticut is one of the absolute worst states in the country. The rest of New England has it totally beat for natural beauty and recreation, nearby NYC is the place to be for big city $$$ and culture, and Connecticut's only recent contribution of consequence is that it was the birthplace of Lyme disease (and even that is like 30 years old). I'd feel pretty bitter myself if I were stuck there, regardless of the tax situation.

BS -- I saw it moments after it was posted- It was 15 then. If he changed it, it was changed during those few moments.

It's because the original post mentions a $5000 deductible. I thought the same thing.

I thought I knew what I saw but if it is a point of contention then who cares? I'll take your word he's a good guy.

You do know there's been other changes to the page also right?

There was also essentially no cure for cancer then, no open heart surgery, probably only 5-10% of today's medications available, and still relatively limited interventions for most major illnesses. Plus doctor's could smoke in the exam rooms. "Health care" is basically an entirely different product now than it was 50 years ago, so it's hard to directly compare the costs.

Its like everyone else here with their opinions... everyone goes off of their own experiences... Everyone in CT these days hates what it has turned into...

I congratulated him a hour earlier, as his initial post mentioned the $5,000 deductible being the first, big, monetary hurdle he would face. Once he hit $5,000 mark on gofundme, I made the congratulatory post.

I apologize if I created any confusion.

This, seems like something you shouldn’t have to apologize for to be honest, but I get what you mean