Quoted from Yelobird:

As KingPinGames noted in another thread the distributors were no given their allotment numbers yet however some distributors Assumed how many and simply started selling which is bad on them Not JJP.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

The only thing that could make this shit show any worse is if the game comes with chipping playfields like pirates and Wonka did and Jack tells his customers to pound sand again!

Quoted from spinal:

If Kaneda loses some of his 4 CE spots, will be interesting to see if he can keep up his new cool-as-a-cucumber schtick or if he instead unleashes a wrath of satinic spite onto JJP the likes we have never seen before. Should be interesting...

Quoted from Breger1:

You think they want to be part of this s*hit show? Even if cheated and wronged if they come on here stating that, it doesn’t look good for future business relationships. You think all these people saying their CEs were cancelled are lying? If a distributor had certain allotments for previous JJP pins, you cannot adjust based on what you sell direct when you have a hit, while distros sit in your badly received wonkas, dialed ins. Reward consistent business with consistent outcomes

Quoted from Reznnate:

Perhaps they won't do anything to address the problems.
But if they cared about their customers and 'sales associates', they'd announce that mistakes were made and they'll deliver games for orders placed through Friday. The number of CE games MIGHT go to 500+ something. Done.
Anyone who whines about 400 or 500 or 600 or 800 numbers can suck it and go away. Deposit refunded, your spot will go to someone else. That might cause the number of games down below 500 too.
I'd rather they do that then remake different versions of the game over and over.

Quoted from Dr-pin:

I think it's kind of bad form from The distributors side.
Taking orders on product they are not certain to get. If they are promised a certain amount and jjp backs on that amount ofc the responsability falls on them.
That said, jjp wasn't ready for this. I hope they find a way to make potential customers somewhat ok with the situation.
That said, the LE looks absolutely awesome. I want to see some game play, but the LE is probably where im heading.
Lets hope they Dont sell them out, but to be honest, that Actually may happen.

Quoted from Dr-pin:

Are we certain that is what happened?
Distro x was promised 10ce's. sold them and was told, you are only getting five.
Is that confirmed?

Quoted from Yelobird:

Quite the contrary. This is truly bad for business, bad for the JJP supporters, and bad for pinball interest in general. And no I have no doubt those that got bumped made up a story they would have no reason to. Talking to a distributor today it seems the Wise thing to do for all OEM's since the CE's and Stern LE's are basically a money grab of profit is to have those models only available via the distribution network exclusively. Then the distributors that Earned that company support would be rewarded with sales.

Quoted from Dr-pin:

Well allegedly more then 800 tried to order a 12.5k game within a Day.
Is it really unlikely that with good videos of game play 5000 will find the way to do 9.5k?
You are certainly right that, if that happens, they probably make more, but what if jjp is turning a corner and release toy story within a couple of months?
What then?
Will an alternate GNR take a backseat?
Well then you will wait for a vault, which probably means a scheduled release had failed. Will toy story be that? Will the next one after that?

Quoted from Dr-pin:

Just looking at the manufacturing site, how many games are they able to make monthly?

Quoted from player-one:

The terms of the agreements between JJP and its distributors may be such that allocations are exclusively determined by JJP and/or subject to adjustment by JJP for any reason, including availability based on direct JJP orders/sales. Or maybe there are no true allocations and the agreement provides that JJP fills distributor orders as available but at the lesser distributor price. Whatever the terms of the agreements are, I don't think anyone is forced to be a distributor or to continue being a distributor - the complete terms are surely mutually beneficial and neither JJP nor distributors are operating on a charitable basis. It is also likely that there are non-disclosure provisions and other compelling reasons preventing distributors, and JJP as well, from chiming in on these details. Maybe we will never know.
What we do know is that the CE appears to have significantly more demand than pretty much everyone anticipated. That's a good thing, in my opinion. If I ordered a CE through a distributor and was later told I couldn't have it, I would want to see confirmation that the distributor actually had the game to sell, or a confirmed allocation that was later changed by JJP, before I thought of complaining about JJP.
And maybe the 5,000 limited will not sell out any time soon. Or maybe they will. Monday evening, some claimed that only a dozen or two CEs were actually sold - and many were of the belief the CE would never sell out. Nonetheless, I hope everyone gets the machine they want - be it NIB or on the secondary market.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Well I was informed last night that I lost my CE, it honestly almost made me laugh as I have literally had nothing but bad news in my life for the last 2 years. If losing my CE is the worst thing that happens to me this month I will count my blessing as I have my normal every 8 week brain MRI coming up in 2 weeks, so I hold my breath again like I always do. Congrats to everyone who got a CE, I probably didn’t need to be spending that kind of money on a pinball machine anyways.

Quoted from DJNOEL30:

Didn’t Stern allow direct purchases of BM66 SLE?

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

This whole post gets it.
Not to rub it in but I'm pretty sure reading pinside the weekend before launch, we were going to be lucky to move 50 of these things.
I'm really sorry this happened. I think we can all agree that we didn't expect distributors to come at us with ALMOST DOUBLE the requests in total compared to the build amount. Should we have had it sorted beforehand? Probably. But we didn't, and I bet you didn't either, expect this overwhelming and frankly humbling demand. There was no history to indicate this.
So when the dust settled and we were in this situation, what could we do other than to work on reducing asks?
I thank all of you for your interest and we'll have it worked out better next time. I really didn't expect them to go so fast either, or even to be all gone on day 1.
I hope those that get shut out still consider an le because I think it's still a great game and has all the gameplay features of the ce.
Oh, and believe me or not, but website orders are a drop in the bucket compared to the total demand there was.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So you are in agreement with me that any company rep posting on pinside is making a mistake?
People always whine about the "lack of communication" from manufacturers. Well, this is why.

Quoted from bgwilly31:

You were all good till your #3.

Quoted from jawjaw:

So your 10 year old kid can run a pinball company and the entire distribution network. Smart kid. Pinball is easy.

Quoted from fuko:

If it's so easy, then why does literally every company in the world suck at it? Accurately predicting demand for a new product launch, and being ready to handle either too much or too little, is one of the hardest problems to solve for in business. I understand your frustration, but if you don't have any direct experience with that problem then I suggest you stop trying to tell everyone how easy it is, because you sound silly.

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Your 10 year old didn’t know the problem existed until it was too late- same as every professional at JJP.
In hindsight many, many people will have solutions. Some of those solutions will be implemented. Different problems will emerge and so on.
Congratulations on the incredible success!

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I got burned by Netflix today! They opened at $517 but now they are at $534. I didn’t make $17 a share. I was almost robbed.

Quoted from fosaisu:

Sure. Difference here is that, because JJP bungled their preorder process, lots of customers were told they'd secured a machine and then learned it wasn't so. It may be factually correct to tell people that, given where they were on the preorder list, there were > 500 ahead of them so they didn't really "deserve" a CE. But when you tell someone they've got something, ask them to pay for it, and then take it away, you can expect them to be pissed.
Of course some people would still be griping on pinside if the game had sold out in seconds and they just missed out, but this is something different. And I think JJP has to be at least somewhat concerned about burning bridges with distributors and customers. Which is where the consolation prizes come in.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Dude, future money was lost.
And now he'll have to settle for the shitty $10,000 version of the game, where no future money will be won!!!
JJP are monsters!!!

Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

when will these pinball companies figure out 500 is not a big enough run to meet demand.

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Just curious, how many people care about the limited availability of the collector's edition or they just want the the best possible version of the game?
Me personally, I couldn't care less how many they make, I just like to get the best version of the game.
If 1,000 other people have the same thing, I really don't care.
Make another version with the lock mech and different colors and sell what you can.
I don't really think most of us care about the limited numbers or collectability aspect of it.

Quoted from woody76:

People got hosed? LOL. Again, no one would have dreamed they would sell out of CE's in hours. A few days before people where talking about JJP on the verge of financial collapse and ruin. This site is so full of idiots. Half the people who ordered a CE probably just want to flip for a profit anyway.

Quoted from fuko:

It has EVERYTHING to do with predicting demand. If the CE for the previous 3 or 4 games never sold out, and you PREDICTED this game would sell roughly similar, then you wouldn't have taken steps to pre-allocate with distributors, and you certainly wouldn't have limited the number of units sold through your first party channel.
In the end though, we agree they didn't take the right steps and here we are. I just don't think they are bad/stupid for it (e.g. suggesting a 10 yr old could have done better), because I see good/smart people end up in similar situations all the time.

Quoted from ronaldvg:That is only your personal perception as you did not get one. If you would have gotten one, you would probably also be crying wolf if JJP would make more than the 500. In case there is a limitation on a product, you will always piss off the people that want one but not get one.

Quoted from rogerdodger:

This too shall pass!
Soon we'll be seeing posts from all the CE buyers complaining about the quality of the playfield finish or this toy is bad or that mech doesn't work properly or the balls keep getting stuck and how dare they churn out this kind of quality for $12,500!!!

Quoted from fooflighter:

I wrote them this letter per their site. Waiting to see what happens if any cancels occur.
Hello, I purchased a non-refundable $2000 deposit on a GnR CE on 10/5 with XXXXXXXXXXXX exactly 2 minutes and 27 seconds after the launch window opened. Today I emailed the distributor and they are telling me JJP pulled their allotment back by 1/3rd and that I would most likely no longer receive one. So I am very confused here. I sat all day after the launch window thinking I had a confirmed reservation as XXXXXXXXXX stopped taking orders on their site an hour later. Meanwhile, the JJP site continued to sell machines. So, I could have paid JJP direct and been guaranteed, but since I went with a trusted distributor, I am out in the cold, and worse yet, this is because the allotment was cut? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Why even have a distributor network at all? Hope you can repair my situation as this would have been my first JJP purchase. Thank you for your time

Quoted from Chisox:

Spooky does both and blew through 750 Rick and Mortys in about the same amount of time if not faster. I remember some salty folks regarding how quickly they sold out but the whole thing was handled well as far as I could tell.

Quoted from Tilt:

This cant be compared to spooky at all with Rick and morty, was handled in a complete different way.
From my understanding, Distributors were asked how many they wanted prior to release. So if a distributor said he wanted 50, thats what he emailed them saying he will take. JJP doesn't reply to any distributor at that time to "confirm" they are getting that many, but also not saying they are not. SO the distributors "assume" that they are getting what they asked, since this is how it was handled on all previous releases.
Who is at fault: I honestly believe JJP is, since this was there standard operating procedure previously.
Sadly, JJP has caused some disruption in their business model because of greed. Several distributors are unhappy, and it will affect JJP in the long term.
Back to my first comment. Distributors knew for a fact that they had X amount of games, and only sold that many, and this information was given to them prior to release

Quoted from iceman44:

While i'm still VERY excited to get a GNR CE, after watching the stream tonight i've got a feeling that anyone that wants one is going to be able to get it.
A lot of folks will either drop out because they can't flip it OR drop down to the LE.
A little patience and the "getting burned" feeling might recede a bit after the FOMO wears off.

Quoted from BigT:

I would love to see the LE with the cal res side art, mirrored back glass, complete led light show, coma lock. Let the CE buyers get the topper, different playfield, art, signed card and topper.

Quoted from spinal:

Yes, just for show. It is a smart form of misdirection away from having light put on the fact that they withheld allocations to increase profit. This way the sheep are happy with the fact that
1. What caused an issue was buyers of multiples (those scum), and
2. We at JJP are united with those who didn’t get one through your distributer and we will fight on your behalf by rooting out this evil and going on a witch hunt for duplicates.
Just for show. Smart.

Quoted from Stones:

I would love this as an upgrade option on the LE as well.....

Quoted from spinal:

My guess is JJP will sell these games as advertized with 500 CEs and other versions etc for a couple years. Then will release a new version like Slash edition (or whatever) having all or most features of CE or maybe something added and sell hundreds more. Will have updated mechs and glitches fixed.
Just always remember, you will get a great game in time. Look at WOZRR compared to emerald edition.

Quoted from jarozi:

Just got my regret email as well from JJ. I won't be taking him up on the LE discount. Now I'll get a chance to play it and pickup the next version of the LE if the game proves to be a classic. Ah well, lesson learned, on to the next thing.

Quoted from Jecco74:

Theme is important to a lot of us...
I’m in for GnR.
Out for Toy Story for the same reason I will not be getting a R&M. No interest.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Completely understand and support your and others disappointment in how this played out and the end decision how you move forward is Fully your own. With that said, the end goal here is Fun pinball and the LE is without question a kick ass amazing game. Had 15 people over yesterday including Eric and Everyone absolutely Loved the game and how it played. NOT an upsell but in a lineup like mine which is similar to most in a dark room you can't see the cabinet art, the under/rear lights would hardly be seen, and the game play is the Exact same. Plus you get to put 3k in betting money in your pocket which I May have lost yesterday betting on this game.... The game is Incredible, try not to let this business stumble detract from Your enjoyment of the hobby and fun.
[quoted image]

Quoted from fooflighter:

I've got a Flow machine (SW Prem), a Shot Machine (JP Prem), this LE is gonna scratch my Theme/Experience itch. I want this to be something different. Not every game has to have shot flow wash rinse repeat. I have every intention of this being an Experience pin and similar to guitar hero in a box of lights type gameplay and am perfectly fine with that. But it's no slouch either...there is some amazing flow to be had in this game from a clip i saw on the What the Flip stream...the Buffalo stream was a snoozefest (lasted 4 minutes) and looked to be setup wrong.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Ok my Opinion (nothing more) on the MB fears. By default the game comes from the factory (as seen in every video) with a 60 Second ball save on songs MB's. For that reason it Appears to endless MB's since when one song ends it goes into the next song and Bam another 60 seconds. Add to that when collecting band members you get Additional time on top of that! My opinion is as owners get their games they will dial the settings to their skill level and Love the end result. This game is Truly amazing and like nothing I have seen as a total package. And yes on the mods thats a given lol...

Quoted from drfrightner:

Saying this is ALWAYS unpopular with pinsiders but if you ask me they should add another 500 games. I said the same thing with Rick and Morty... if the demand is there make the games. When these pinball companies have a hit on their hands should we really hold their feet to the fire about not increasing the number. Spooky never sold more than 500 games they didn't know if they can sell 750 they found out yeah you can. Great for them I'm super happy for Spooky! So why not add more then so Spooky can make more money. Spooky's next title might not be successful who knows... strike while you can.
Is it really that bad that people want the game so you make more? I know you're worried about you're resale value but honestly I don't think JJP thought there would be 500 buyers at $12,500 dollars. I mean come on that is a lot of money. They found out the WORLD is full of Guns N Roses fans with a lot of disposable income.
Make 500 more wouldn't you rather people get what they want then be upset?
Hey its just my opinion but JJP should announce another 500 copies, either way its still going to be very rare because there are MILLIONS of Guns fans who will buy the game with a motto of TIL DEATH DO WE PART. Even at 1000 versions you won't see a lot up for sale just like you don't see a lot of Kiss LE for sale.
I think in the end there would be more HAPPY people with that announcement than unhappy!
Just my two cents even if my view is in the minority.
With ALL that being said buying an LE is still amazing, and some like the artwork a lot better. Tough situation no question.

Quoted from rai:

To me autographs mean nothing.

Quoted from twenty84:

For me the autographs of the band members are worth a lot more than the company president's signature on a piece of paper or the game designers signature on a plastic. Although, I feel like the autographs have value I feel the art and extra features are enough to buy a CE for the same price without them.

Quoted from rai:

Here’s the rub.
I wanted to see the gameplay before I committed to the most expensive pinball machine I’ve ever bought.
I didn’t want something like Munsters LE or like the original Avengers LE. So I said let me wait a day or two. But once I hear it’s getting scarce I call around and no dealers had any.
Too bad now, if say Toy Story is the same might have to buy immediately before seeing any gameplay and I may not like it and get stuck with a pin I don’t love just because I’m scared it’ll sell out in one hour.
However.... the LE (to me) has better cabinet art. I don’t notice the PF art not sure if the gold glitter is good, bad or neutral.
I hope to play first before getting a LE. If anyone has one in Central Florida let me know I’d like to play before committing $10k

Quoted from fooflighter:

I know exactly how you feel as you may have read my exact story and I feel EXACTLY as you do. In the end, I gave it a night to sleep on it, woke up and got the LE after my CE got pulled back by JJP. Yes it hurts, but I feel wiser for going through this. Next "gotta have pin" ...if JJP... will be Direct Only unless they change their policy. I personally love the CE art package but that's me in the minority I guess.

Quoted from delt31:

art could have been a black box and it was selling out. Or better yet, that terrible SE art. Had nothing to do with that. This was flippers 101 and diehards.

Quoted from delt31:

All subjective but I rather have the DE GnR art than the CE or SE. The SE is even worse than the CE. The LE is so nice!

Quoted from rai:

I don't know.........
Scarcity brings out.....
Flippers and they buy up a block of games and there is not any more to go around, people flip out and pay more.
True scarcity doesn't make a game valuable, XMLE is very scarce and not any premium so less than 600 and that game is not too valuable.
If there was unlimited of say 1500 of the CE, there would not be any flippers buying up a large number to sell later at a hike.
I don't want to say but it could still be dealers looking to sell later for more, maybe they say my allocation is low (but I'm keeping 5 for my friends and family don't you know?)

Quoted from JodyG:

Australia got 10.

Quoted from jokerpoker:

And was expecting 30 and had over 40 people on the list. Oh well more LEs sold!!

Quoted from MrBally:

I wonder how many JJP distributors will upvote your post?

Quoted from KingPinGames:

Hopefully jjp will learn from this and we will get out allocation number before the release.

Quoted from PDX-Mike:

Problem in the future will be when JJP calls a distributor to do them a favor and fix a game that was sold direct. I could see many distributors telling JJP no more doing warranty fixes for free on direct sold machines. When you screw over your distributors AKA the people who service and fix your machines, probably won't end well i'm thinking.