(Topic ID: 278928)

I got burned JJP GnR CE deposit


By mslow

3 months ago



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#401 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Honest question, but do you guys really prefer the CE artwork over the LE or are you interested in the CE primarily for the other additions (ball lock, soundbar, lighting, etc.). I'm a pretty big GNR fan and I vastly prefer the LE artwork/color scheme. Having all of those vintage concert posters represented and unique artwork on all side is awesome! The CE artwork is alright but I think the in motion pinball is kind of cheesy, and I'm not sure if I like the 7 member AFD cross. I feel like it should be the original 5 member cross to stay true to the album/band from that era. It might be a blessing in disguise if you have to "settle" for an LE.

I would love to see the LE with the cal res side art, mirrored back glass, complete led light show, coma lock. Let the CE buyers get the topper, different playfield, art, signed card and topper.

#402 3 months ago
Quoted from BigT:

I would love to see the LE with the cal res side art, mirrored back glass, complete led light show, coma lock. Let the CE buyers get the topper, different playfield, art, signed card and topper.

Once the talented Mod guys/gals get a hold of the machine I'm sure it will dress up nicely. Clearly adding game blades, cool shooter rod, and an emblem on the lockdown bar will some of the first to hit the market. My guess is they will almost replicate what their doing on the CE

#403 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-NJA:

Why have distributors when you can go direct to customer?
Well, maybe when a company starts, they can’t reach a mass audience. In comes the distributor with a show room for you to test the game, multiple show rooms across the map.
All types of pinball machines to play until you find the one for you and you buy.
Great relationship.
Company gets popular now, based on the backs of distributors and now assumes/realizes that they are leaving money on The table by not going direct to consumer...
Why not cut out the guys that have made a business of promoting us and just give the people what they want....
Sell direct, unexpectedly, with your greatest product to date,
In turn sullying the distributors reputation of basing a businesses previous actions and sales in accordance to their usual allotments.
They assume they will get 10/500
They always get 10/500
They had their 10 buyers picked before the drop. Everyone knew it would be a success.
The average consumer now thinks the Distro ripped them off? Lied to them?
But heck, I don’t think they were allowed to put in order before the drop?
So how does your deposit matter.
The only thing you can possibly argue is the pecking order the distro gives its 2/10 CEs they ended up getting...
But before you do that, why don’t you try to figure out how many CE went to celebrities and/or “influencers”
How many did the company sell streamline, before then tell distribution their allotments.
I can only imagine the nightmare of dealing with customers flaking or fraudulently ordering direct from the manufacturer.
Not a issue when you use distributors.
What is issues occur with the pins?
I’ve never had to try to mail a machine from Canada to the states. But I assume it’s a nightmare.
Who’s gonna broker your playfield issues? Mech issues? Re-install a unpopulated playfield.
I’m fairly new to the pin game, I’ve bought old and NIB.
2 of my pins had problems out of the box.
Distro handled it all.
Can with the part, to my house, installed the part.
Stayed until I was satisfied.
Came back if there was a issue.
I wonder if they will use distributions infrastructure when trying to ship single units all across the world.
Pay the Distro minimum payment to deliver their product.
I dunno.
I totally feel for anyone that missed out on a pin if they wanted it.
But make sure you take in all the info before placing blame.
Heck? Even I could be wrong about all the junk I just wrote?

I think I wasn't clear enough or perhaps a little confusing in my last paragraph. I am totally on the side of my distributor and agree with everything you said. I guess I meant it as a rhetorical question to JJP of why tout a network of distribution if you're just going to undercut them and disrupt their sales. Whereas I could always rely on my distributor for past business BASED on past business and suddenly JJP has a hit and doesn't know how to react so they flip the monopoly board and take all the toys and go home

#404 3 months ago

Yah, and there may also be a side of the JJP coin we don’t see.
Definitely congratulations to JJP for a successful title and launch
This game was a very well kept secret.
Looks like a great pin and I can’t wait to play it.

Quoted from fooflighter:

I think I wasn't clear enough or perhaps a little confusing in my last paragraph. I am totally on the side of my distributor and agree with everything you said. I guess I meant it as a rhetorical question to JJP of why tout a network of distribution if you're just going to undercut them and disrupt their sales. Whereas I could always rely on my distributor for past business BASED on past business and suddenly JJP has a hit and doesn't know how to react so they flip the monopoly board and take all the toys and go home

#405 3 months ago

Ordered a Collector's Edition the morning of the announcement from my distributor in Oregon Next LevelPinball . He told me I was second in line, I offered to pay over the phone he said no need. I was the second in line. I sent a check that day. This morning he called and said jersey jack alloted them only one Collector's Edition and I'm out of luck. Why didn't Jersey jack tell their distributors how many collector's Edition machines they were alloted ahead of time? Had I known i would have called every distributor in the world to get this title. Hopefully they fix this in the future or they will lose more customers.

#406 3 months ago

Just make more CEs. There's no good solution but that's the best option.

#407 3 months ago
Quoted from woody76:

People got hosed? LOL. Again, no one would have dreamed they would sell out of CE's in hours. A few days before people where talking about JJP on the verge of financial collapse and ruin. This site is so full of idiots. Half the people who ordered a CE probably just want to flip for a profit anyway.

You proved your own post, congrats.
Again, why would it matter if they thought it would sell out? It was 500 units. They couldn’t run a spread sheet to say this guy gets 5 and this one gets 10? With months to prepare? A 10 yr old could have easily done this.
Is there a thread saying boycott JJP? Are people putting vids up of burning JJP pins? No, people were simply posting their disappointment they put a deposit down through distributors just after the release- hours later CEs were still being sold on JJP- yet the early purchasers get nothing. That’s basically the def of hosed so yeah LOL!! And they get yahoos like u coming out with they are flipping idiots? Okay, thanks for the great insight.

#408 3 months ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

I think I wasn't clear enough or perhaps a little confusing in my last paragraph. I am totally on the side of my distributor and agree with everything you said. I guess I meant it as a rhetorical question to JJP of why tout a network of distribution if you're just going to undercut them and disrupt their sales. Whereas I could always rely on my distributor for past business BASED on past business and suddenly JJP has a hit and doesn't know how to react so they flip the monopoly board and take all the toys and go home

They should give the commish to the distributor whose territory they direct sold into

20
#409 3 months ago

From what I’m reading, the story that many of you are now self-soothing yourselves with is, and I think JJP is feeding you is...

“Due to overwhelming demand that no one could have foreseen at JJP, so many CEs sold on our website that when we finally chose to take a look at the end of the day, it hit us for the first time that we will have to drastically cut back distributor allocations. Sorry everyone, it’s the demand that did this, the success of the title that did this, sorry.”

Bullshit. And many of you are taking this hook, line and sinker.

Here’s what happened:

1. JJP has strong and long-standing relationships with their distributors, large and small, and they knew full well what approximate allocation each one was ***expecting*** to get. In other words, they knew that some larger distributor would be furious if they would get only 5 when normally they get 10 and that a small distributor would be furious to know they would get 1 instead of 3.

2. Throughout the first day, and perhaps even by the minute, someone was at JJP was refreshing the website sales numbers and knew what was happening. There was no surprise at the end of the day. They were excited as hell and watching like a hawk.

3. They knew in advance that every direct sale would lead to one less allocation to some distributor. This is exactly the point of what JJP set up here to maximize profit.

4. To pull this maximizing off, the decision was made to purposefully delay sending distributors allocation numbers. They knew full well at in advance that leaving this gray area would lead to more profit for them. It was no accident, rather a smart calculation to maximize profit. If you think that it didnt cross their minds that sales could be high and that they just forgot to send out allocations, you are an idiot, sorry. They are not that clueless, the gray area was a tactic used to their advantage.

5. As they were actively watching the rapid website sales occur during the day, there came a point where instead of just knowing that there would be large disappointment from distributors, there would now be outcry, so they stopped the direct sales. In other words they waited until they maximized profit at the point where they thought they could still get away with it - could still placate their distributors with a game or two etc and spin some story.

6. JJP are not so clueless that they didn’t know that their distributors would have certain expectations or that some or many of their distributors were taking deposits.

The only thing clueless are those of you who think that JJP were so clueless and that it was only by accident that this cluelessness happened to accidentally line up exactly with maximizing profits that day.

In summary, JJP is a business and they reserve the right to maximize profits however they choose. And on Monday they did exactly that. They made calculated decisions not just one day at a time and leading up to Monday, but each and every minute that day to maximize profits.

They made the decision that the distributor and customer dissapointment they knew was coming was a trade-off for this profit and they took the profit. There was no conspiracy and nothing nefarious happened. Just a company making profit and we can’t fault them for this.

This is calculation for profit, not accident. Simple.

So don’t buy all the rest of the BS. Next time order direct.

#410 3 months ago

spinal I’d have to agree wholeheartedly to your full post. One of the things I’m hearing through all this is JJP saying they never expected this, they’ve never sold out CE before.......IF they never expected this demand then WHY did they DOUBLE the amount of CE’s offered for this game title. That doesn’t sound like it wasn’t expected!!

#411 3 months ago

Yes, good point. They knew they had a hit. Just look at the the confidence of Eric and others and the polished marketing campaign etc. Nothing wrong with that but to have them play dumb now and act if they were all suprised - it just doesn’t come across as honest.

It was precisely because they expected high demand that it made sense for them to delay sending out allocations to distributors.

#412 3 months ago
Quoted from spinal:

So don’t buy all the rest of the BS. Next time order direct.

If you believe this (it may well be true) then bypassing your distributor and going with JJP directly would fall into their strategy. I've owned 2 JJP games (GNR will be my 3rd) and in my experience their customer service is awful. They used to have a ticket system that worked ok but later this seemed to have been abandoned. My RR WoZ required multiple light board replacements which I was only able to obtain through a distributor. JJPs only response was to sell a $800 kit that I had to figure out how to install myself. My Hobbit required new ramp flaps to be installed, and some other fixes. Additionally every single light board needed to be replaced in Hobbit and without my distributor I would have been left with a non-functioning game. Recent experience with playfield problems has shown they aren't very responsive without a distributor or groups of buyers on pinside applying pressure. For pinheads that maintain and can move and set up their own games distributors may be optional, but without distributors JJP will loose access to a lot of more casual buyers that work with local distributors to buy, setup, and maintain their small collections. Even now people who ordered from JJP direct and called or emailed about the status of their order have gotten no response. I'll be sticking with my distributor.

#413 3 months ago

The economics of this is like a chess game with multiple parties involved and where everyone wants to win. For sake of argument, lets assume there are only 3 parties, JJP, distributors and customers.

Now when JJP makes a move like choosing short-term profit gain at the expense of distributors and some customer happiness, JJP know there will be some consequences. No one knows the optimal strategy for everyone, JJP are just making the best decisions for their interest as they can. And they know that the move they made inflicts real harm but not so harmful that they can’t continue to play the game. Ultimately winning at this version of chess is keeping the game alive forever and making sure that the other players stay alive.

It is now distributors and customers that can make the next (chess) move.

I’m not sure what a distributor can do - probably nothing - but don’t think that a great deal of damage to brand hasn’t occured. I’m sure they have pissed off many distributors. And this can have a slight affect on sales down the road.

So getting to my last comment, I’m not suggesting that it’s best for the market in general that buyers now go through JJP, I’m simply saying that if you want the next CE and given that you’ve now seen how JJP moves its pieces, you are forced to order direct through JJP. That’s the move.

If what you want to do is trust in your distributor that has no power and no allocation, then you are free to do that.

You see, JJP’s last move changed the market dynamics for CEs and now the game has changed. That was the move they made and they know full well the consequences of it. I’m not saying I agree with it. They caused some damage and they made extra profit - everything is a trade-off and time will tell if it’s worth it in the long run.

#414 3 months ago
Quoted from Charger68:

They should give the commish to the distributor whose territory they direct sold into

I was thinking the same thing the other day.

#415 3 months ago

spinal I would agree, it does seem highly unlikely that a company as big as JJP who was able to move its entire resource and manufacturing company across the country, while launching their most anticipated title ever, with 6million in profit hanging and simply say, whoops, we screwed up and forgot to come up with a fairsales system???...I mean this is a simple math problem. If you allocate to your distro web, then there's no questions. By them undercutting their own sales force, it does seem very calculated. If they really were "caught off guard" as they say, then why in the hell not confirm allocations? I'm not one to believe in nefarious wrongdoing and conspiracy, but this is how it seems. So the plan in the long term is to no longer cater to distributors then, since unless they come up with a different system next time...you'd be nuts to try and buy a high end item like Toy Story for example from a distro. The FOMO is almost stage set for only going direct next time practically guaranteeing direct sales. Man, I don't want to believe it, but this to me seems more logical and business oriented than a "whoopsie" excuse. Shit now I'm more upset.

#416 3 months ago

There is no conspiracy, just calculation for profit. Each party just playing the best moves they can.

And JJP wants to keep distributors strong enough to stay alive so they can be of use to fix games etc. They still need distributors as they play a role.

They are inflicting a calculated damage on distributors but not too much just taking some of their profits because they can. Just for CEs.

#417 3 months ago

Well calculation then, seems like bad business ethics to their customer / distributor base, maybe not $$ wise arguably. On principle alone, I almost want to pull my deposit that may now (most likely) lead into an LE and go home. That's the problem though, I'm just 1 person, on principles, big friggin deal....They've already made the money now they can continue the same confusion model with the next title

#418 3 months ago

JJP should determine how many ordered multiple games and cancel the duplicates, determine how many they are still over sold, I’m going to guess probably under 50 total.
Make 50 more games and offer a small discount on parts and accessories for everyone who ordered a CE.
If the number is really under 50 units would that really affect collectibility?

14
#419 3 months ago

If I was a JJP distributor from day 1 and this happened to me I would no longer be a distributor for JJP today.

Total bullshit.

#420 3 months ago

What I'm curious about is JJP's direct sale orders and the ability for them to support them. I remember Kaneda literally had 500 in his cart and the website allowed him (or appeared to) buy it, even though he of course didn't.

Point being, has anyone who ordered direct also impacted by this or just distro? I would think all parties would be impacted but then again, direct means more money for JJP but it sounds like maybe even that was oversold?

I am BLOWN away by the demand on this so I learned something as well. Rick and Morty - OK.....only 750 are made of ANY version meaning if you're not in the 750 bucket, you can't even play the game period. That makes sense why it sold out asap. This game is literally available as an LE that I believe the majority prefers art wise and all of the extras, literally, can be added except maybe 1 or 2 things? Yet it still sells out in a day and at 12.5!?

The pinball hobby - the bar continues to move on where people draw the line. If I'm stern or JJP or anyone else who can actually build a pinball......I'm making a pin with a great IP, limiting it to 50 and charging 30k. I want to see where this ends. If it sells, great. If it doesn't, I'll "reduce" to 15k even though internally I'm still making money. WIN WIN

#421 3 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

JJP GNR CE $3000-$7000 cheaper.

LOL yes they are and I have always found LE games for chumps but if you are going to go LE you might as well go with as low a number as possible. BBB is a perfect example the play is not great but the price before the remake wow

#422 3 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

What I'm curious about is JJP's direct sale orders and the ability for them to support them. I remember Kaneda literally had 500 in his cart and the website allowed him (or appeared to) buy it, even though he of course didn't.
Point being, has anyone who ordered direct also impacted by this or just distro? I would think all parties would be impacted but then again, direct means more money for JJP but it sounds like maybe even that was oversold?
I am BLOWN away by the demand on this so I learned something as well. Rick and Morty - OK.....only 750 are made of ANY version meaning if you're not in the 750 bucket, you can't even play the game period. That makes sense why it sold out asap. This game is literally available as an LE that I believe the majority prefers art wise and all of the extras, literally, can be added except maybe 1 or 2 things? Yet it still sells out in a day and at 12.5!?
The pinball hobby - the bar continues to move on where people draw the line. If I'm stern or JJP or anyone else who can actually build a pinball......I'm making a pin with a great IP, limiting it to 50 and charging 30k. I want to see where this ends. If it sells, great. If it doesn't, I'll "reduce" to 15k even though internally I'm still making money. WIN WIN

I think much of this is caused by the flippers. Would love to know how many people bought more than 1 so they can sit on them and sell them.
Lots of people with stupid cash and even more that take the risk and throw them on a CC to make a easy couple thousand on the flip.

JJP needs to cancel all these double orders.

#423 3 months ago
Quoted from kapper:If I was a JJP distributor from day 1 and this happened to me I would no longer be a distributor for JJP today.
Total bullshit.

I hear you. I know what you are saying. But there aren't 25 other companies in this hobby you can replace them with. If you are a distributor you are really upset by this...upset that you feel you let people down....but at the end of the day its business and you have to move on. Really all of those that lost out on the CE's should be calling JJP to voice our displeasure. Power in numbers. I will be doing this shortly although I know it won't help much.

Would be nice for the distributors that are on here to say something here. They are the first to reach out here and try to get business. Come on and say something folks. Don't be afraid.

#424 3 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I think much of this is caused by the flippers. Would love to know how many people bought more than 1 so they can sit on them and sell them.
Lots of people with stupid cash and even more that take the risk and throw them on a CC to make a easy couple thousand on the flip.
JJP needs to cancel all these double orders.

I have to admit, when I see a CE on here for some insane number its going to bother me a lot.

-1
#425 3 months ago
Quoted from spinal:

There is no conspiracy, just calculation for profit. Each party just playing the best moves they can.
And JJP wants to keep distributors strong enough to stay alive so they can be of use to fix games etc. They still need distributors as they play a role.
They are inflicting a calculated damage on distributors but not too much just taking some of their profits because they can. Just for CEs.

Thinking a little further though, and just playing the other side of the coin, why is JJP asking my distributor for a list of his sales to compare and cancel duplicate orders systemwide? Is that just for show then. Wouldn't that be in direct contrast to business? Also, they have potentially left over 4 MILLION on the floor by not building more CE's at this point for the oversales. So by the "it's just business" thinking line, who care's about the collector and their perceived value number? it's profit right? Damage has already been done. I'm just thinking out loud here. It's still not all adding up. I'm usually very trusting until I get burned. Right now I don't know how to feel.

#426 3 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I think much of this is caused by the flippers. Would love to know how many people bought more than 1 so they can sit on them and sell them.
Lots of people with stupid cash and even more that take the risk and throw them on a CC to make a easy couple thousand on the flip.
JJP needs to cancel all these double orders.

I do agree double orders are ridiculous and should be cancelled. I'm all for a free market but that is the normal practice to limit one per. That being said, you just can't get the pitch forks out either when you see guys attempt to sell these at 16k bc if I had a CE, and I saw the demand was this high I would easily sell it and use the extra cash to offset the LE.

Now maybe that's bc I think the LE is the superior model as I rather look at the LE vs that purple CE and I will add the extras that I care about but it's certainly understandable for people to sell these CEs bc it's rather logical to do.

#427 3 months ago
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

when will these pinball companies figure out 500 is not a big enough run to meet demand.

For Spooky 500 was just rightfor ACNC and 550 for TNA

#428 3 months ago

I remember after one of Stern’s shit show reveals, they didn’t have enough to cover all of the distributor requests. Someone with a memory that’s not mush may remember the game. And distributors had been collecting deposits well before the game reveal. So at least for awhile after that, the policy was for distributors to not take any money before the game was announced.
Were distributors taking deposits before the reveal? And if JJP didn’t instruct them not to do this, that’s a really big mistake on their part, and sucks for the people who got shafted.

#429 3 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

I do agree double orders are ridiculous and should be cancelled. I'm all for a free market but that is the normal practice to limit one per. That being said, you just can't get the pitch forks out either when you see guys attempt to sell these at 16k bc if I had a CE, and I saw the demand was this high I would easily sell it and use the extra cash to offset the LE.
Now maybe that's bc I think the LE is the superior model as I rather look at the LE vs that purple CE and I will add the extras that I care about but it's certainly understandable for people to sell these CEs bc it's rather logical to do.

I have no issue with someone buying one game playing it a few weeks and selling for what the market commands or even just turning around and selling without playing(their loss).

The caveat is what you said, one per customer but of course there are ways to get around that as well. Not sure if you can fully eliminate that.

Cash, check or money order pay in full for CE only would eliminate much of the nonsense as it would get rid of the credit card flippers.
It’s shitty for sure.

#430 3 months ago

I think the distos have their confirmed numbers based on info I just received from ours.

#431 3 months ago
Quoted from TheCoinSlotTC:

I think the distos have their confirmed numbers based on info I just received from ours.

Did they change at all? Ie cancels from duplicates adding more numbers allocated

#432 3 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

JJP needs to cancel all these double orders.

When I spoke with them on the phone yesterday, I was told this is absolutely one of the steps they are taking.

#433 3 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I have no issue with someone buying one game playing it a few weeks and selling for what the market commands or even just turning around and selling without playing(their loss).
The caveat is what you said, one per customer but of course there are ways to get around that as well. Not sure if you can fully eliminate that.
Cash, check or money order pay in full for CE only would eliminate much of the nonsense as it would get rid of the credit card flippers.
It’s shitty for sure.

Making customers pay in full is a double edged sword, ask any of us that paid in full for Woz and waited years to get our game, same thing with Hobbit

#434 3 months ago

Do another run of 500 and drop the price a couple grand,( since the R&D has already been paid for) and next hot game the scum of the earth flippers will think twice, in case they get stuck with overpriced originals again.

#435 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-NJA:

Why have distributors when you can go direct to customer?
Well, maybe when a company starts, they can’t reach a mass audience. In comes the distributor with a show room for you to test the game, multiple show rooms across the map.
All types of pinball machines to play until you find the one for you and you buy.
Great relationship.
Company gets popular now, based on the backs of distributors and now assumes/realizes that they are leaving money on The table by not going direct to consumer...
Why not cut out the guys that have made a business of promoting us and just give the people what they want....
Sell direct, unexpectedly, with your greatest product to date,
In turn sullying the distributors reputation of basing a businesses previous actions and sales in accordance to their usual allotments.
They assume they will get 10/500
They always get 10/500
They had their 10 buyers picked before the drop. Everyone knew it would be a success.
The average consumer now thinks the Distro ripped them off? Lied to them?
But heck, I don’t think they were allowed to put in order before the drop?
So how does your deposit matter.
The only thing you can possibly argue is the pecking order the distro gives its 2/10 CEs they ended up getting...
But before you do that, why don’t you try to figure out how many CE went to celebrities and/or “influencers”
How many did the company sell streamline, before then tell distribution their allotments.
I can only imagine the nightmare of dealing with customers flaking or fraudulently ordering direct from the manufacturer.
Not a issue when you use distributors.
What is issues occur with the pins?
I’ve never had to try to mail a machine from Canada to the states. But I assume it’s a nightmare.
Who’s gonna broker your playfield issues? Mech issues? Re-install a unpopulated playfield.
I’m fairly new to the pin game, I’ve bought old and NIB.
2 of my pins had problems out of the box.
Distro handled it all.
Can with the part, to my house, installed the part.
Stayed until I was satisfied.
Came back if there was a issue.
I wonder if they will use distributions infrastructure when trying to ship single units all across the world.
Pay the Distro minimum payment to deliver their product.
I dunno.
I totally feel for anyone that missed out on a pin if they wanted it.
But make sure you take in all the info before placing blame.
Heck? Even I could be wrong about all the junk I just wrote?

This is what ICE did with the Super Chexx market. Best price a guy can get is direct from them.

#436 3 months ago
Quoted from vidgameseller:

Making customers pay in full is a double edged sword, ask any of us that paid in full for Woz and waited years to get our game, same thing with Hobbit

Times are different now. That was their first game.

I'm a free market guy but agree flippers are ruining things those that legit want a game. You think JJP should monitor who is flipping games and block future sales or at least put names at bottom of list?

#437 3 months ago

As I'm following this, one of the things I keep reading is "they are leaving money on the floor" by not making more CEs.

When I do the math:

if they were to increase the number of CEs to say 100 extra units, that doesn't necessarily mean 100 net new CEs. A percentage of folks that wanted CEs are buying LEs. So let's say 50% opt for LEs (I think it would probably be more to be honest once the dust settles) - That's 50 LEs at $9500 - cost vs 100 CEs at $12,500 - cost. We also don't know what sunk costs may or may not exist in order to extend the production of the CEs (aprons, decals, number of toppers, etc...) - maybe it's not much. But it could be a factor.

So by math, let's say they are making 30% Gross margin (I seriously doubt it is that high). So here's the math:
- CE:100 * ($12,500 * 30%) = $375,000
- LE:50 * ($9500 * 30%) = $142,500

So the net on Gross Profit would be $232,500 assuming they build another 100 CEs. I don't know sh*t about the pinball manufacturing industry, but in my experience - that would not be very compelling given the amount of things they would have to move around etc...get more signatures and all of that as well.

This is not meant to be anything other than a little thought exercise that I wanted to walk through to understand the numbers a little better. Now, I will say, if they could sell 1000 CEs, and assuming that no one cancels as a result of it being less exclusive, now we are talking about $1,162,500 assuming the same distribution of people opting for CE out of the LE pool.

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers with this...but I hope it is interesting to some of you.

#438 3 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

How did your distributor have a "promised allotment" when we are hearing that no allotments were communicated to distros?

Most likely, the distributor had a list of people before the official announcement. Lots of them do that for repeat customers.

#439 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Not to rub it in but I'm pretty sure reading pinside the weekend before launch, we were going to be lucky to move 50 of these things.

(edited)

you knew full well you had a very popular license and a hit on your hands with the incredible design from Eric and Slash.

JJP screwed some loyal JJP customers and put their distributors in a very bad position knowing full well they are going to take the heat and share the blame all because of greed. All 500 CEs were going to sell out regardless so you screwed a lot of people and made your distributors look bad over just the additional profit on the direct sales.

You (JJP) should look at the time stamps on the direct orders in relation to known order times with your loyal customers ordering through YOUR distributors and cancel the latest orders whether it is through the distributors or direct sales. Honor the earliest sales first!!! Once you get to 500 the orders after that are the ones canceled and those people miss out. But you won’t do this because of the almighty dollar and the additional money made on the direct orders.

I have no skin in the game (I hope to get an SE or LE used someday) but as an outsider seeing how so many ordered with their trusted distributors thinking they secured a CE while ORDERS CONTINUED TO BE TAKEN AFTER THAT TIME through direct sales and those later direct orders are the ones being honored is completely unacceptable.

Shame on you JJP.

#440 3 months ago

Just an FYI, I got a call from JJP to confirm my order and run my non refundable deposit. I placed my order a couple hours after the reveal directly off their site.
I know it may not make anyone feel better, but from what I can tell, they are definitely taking it seriously (as they should). And from my quick discussion with the salesperson, they seem to be attempting to sort through the people who are serious, and the ones that may have been on the fence but placed an order because they could. I assume after they get thru the list of people who will put down the deposit, they’ll have a better understanding of how many can actually go thru distributors.
I know I’m making assumptions, which is what helped cause this debacle in the first place, but this is what appears to be happening. Only going by my quick discussion.
I feel bad for everyone who may miss out, the whole thing is a mess.

#441 3 months ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

Just an FYI, I got a call from JJP to confirm my order and run my non refundable deposit. I placed my order a couple hours after the reveal directly off their site.
I know it may not make anyone feel better, but from what I can tell, they are definitely taking it seriously (as they should). And from my quick discussion with the salesperson, they seem to be attempting to sort through the people who are serious, and the ones that may have been on the fence but placed an order because they could. I assume after they get thru the list of people who will put down the deposit, they’ll have a better understanding of how many can actually go thru distributors.
I know I’m making assumptions, which is what helped cause this debacle in the first place, but this is what appears to be happening. Only going by my quick discussion.
I feel bad for everyone who may miss out, the whole thing is a mess.

Damn, I'm glad you're getting one. I'm just pissed I ordered at 2 minutes and 27 seconds and as Charlie Brown says..."I got a rock".

#442 3 months ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

If this was a persons absolute GRAIL pin. For one they should have been better prepared. Wayyyyy in advance. And if they still got screwed. Then money talks. There will be a NIB GnR CE Available over the next few weeks. It may be thousands more. But its achievable.

case in point the collectability argument is garbage^^^^ these are not unobtanium just cause its stamped CE. jjp should raise it to 1000. if i was the CEO i would.
the 12,500 price is what mostly makes this collectible and limited to those who CAN buy them.

#443 3 months ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Damn, I'm glad you're getting one. I'm just pissed I ordered at 2 minutes and 27 seconds and as Charlie Brown says..."I got a rock".

Thanks, it sucks that so many people were shafted. The whole thing was poorly handled. I think once the sort the wheat from the chaff, more games will be available.
I just find it crazy that (if you believe Keith) distributors came in with 8-900 orders for CEs. How that wasn’t prevented is just nuts. I think both side made poor assumptions based on previous sales. Ultimately, its up to JJP to handle things, and it got f@#kd’d.
Hang in there, you may get one yet. At least I hope you do.

#444 3 months ago

pinball and a distributor debacle...
dual meanings to the phrase "games people play".

whoa the games people play now
every night and every day now
never meaning what they say now
never saying what they mean

#445 3 months ago

Lots of valid opinions , but anyone suggesting they change the number of CE is not being logical.
They will probably release another version like the did with WoZ.
Standard,emerald,ruby,yellow brick road...
Just be patient
But change a 1/500 CE ratio for those that missed out, defeats the purpose of a numbered edition.
It’s not happening.

#446 3 months ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Thinking a little further though, and just playing the other side of the coin, why is JJP asking my distributor for a list of his sales to compare and cancel duplicate orders systemwide? Is that just for show then.

Yes, just for show. It is a smart form of misdirection away from having light put on the fact that they withheld allocations to increase profit. This way the sheep are happy with the fact that

1. What caused an issue was buyers of multiples (those scum), and

2. We at JJP are united with those who didn’t get one through your distributer and we will fight on your behalf by rooting out this evil and going on a witch hunt for duplicates.

Just for show. Smart.

#447 3 months ago

This happens, unfortunately!
It happened recently with XBOX Series X and PS5 allotments.
That's why I got my XBox direct from Microsoft.

#448 3 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

You (JJP) should look at the time stamps on the direct orders in relation to known order times with your loyal customers ordering through YOUR distributors and cancel the latest orders whether it is through the distributors or direct sales. Honor the earliest sales first!!!

Money is on the table and there is not a snowball’s chance in hell they will do this.

JJP is thinking... it’s not our fine website buyers that are pissed, it’s the distributor’s customers that are pissed so they can deal with that themselves. Not our problem. Oh and please let’s continue to have a great relationship, fix customer’s games and spread the word of JJP. Thanks distros! (Nothing much you can do anyway right hah ahahah hahah hahha ahahah)

#449 3 months ago
Quoted from spinal:

Yes, just for show. It is a smart form of misdirection away from having light put on the fact that they withheld allocations to increase profit. This way the sheep are happy with the fact that
1. What caused an issue was buyers of multiples (those scum), and
2. We at JJP are united with those who didn’t get one through your distributer and we will fight on your behalf by rooting out this evil and going on a witch hunt for duplicates.
Just for show. Smart.

Listen I'm happy JJP actually made a pin that sold out quick. I'm also happy they are trying to maximize profits. The lesson learned is if you want to try and guarantee a CE from JJP you have to buy direct...its really that simple .... personally I think thats terrible for their distribution network, but thats their business decision...

#450 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Listen I'm happy JJP actually made a pin that sold out quick. I'm also happy they are trying to maximize profits. The lesson learned is if you want to try and guarantee a CE from JJP you have to buy direct...its really that simple .... personally I think thats terrible for their distribution network, but thats their business decision...

Has it been confirmed that all of the preorders placed directly with JJP will be honored? I would think it's possible that some of those will also be canceled. Regardless, they'll almost certainly have a different preorder system next time around (and it should only matter if they've got another theme like GnR that generates this kind of demand).

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