Yea, my grandma used to bitch when there was nothing else to bitch about!

Has anyone played the CE before spending $12,500 on it? I hope so...

I've had great fun spending (much less than) £12.5k on arcade machines Wouldn't touch this overpriced wooden table though TBH. The last few years of overpriced pinball has been great for me, as I've got into other non-pinball hobbies. Even classic cars look cheap by comparison. I bought a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II for less than GNR CE. I hope the pinball bubble bursts, then I might return. Even MG was 'only' $16k! And BBB looks a bargain now. Crazy times... I guess the hedge funds are happy though, even if we aren't...

As a consumer, please remember- you can spend your money elsewhere.

If true it shows how much JJP cares about the Aussie buyers.
If no allocations were given out yet though why would JJP be referring to to Aussie distributor?
More questions.

Some of us like pinball, that’s why we post on pinside not because we’re forced into buying these “overpriced wooden table” machines and are taking away our money from other interests. I could buy classic cars if it interested me, but I prefer playing pins and I still like 1980’s era Sterns as well as the latest games.
Playing/fixing/fiddling with games is one of the few things that can take me away from the daily boredoms of covid life. That’s my interest. That’s why I pay lots of what others would consider toys. I love pinball, it’s crazy I know.

At first I felt bad that you missed out and figured you were a die hard GnR fan. However after reading this post I am glad you missed out. Call it a missed opportunity however it's far from being "burned" like the title implies.

I like pinball too

But I'm not a mug.

You would hope they add these direct Aussie sales to the distributors existing allocation. That's what a normal business in a normal situation would do. But nothing is normal about this situation. To me it just sounded like JJP were glad to cull another bunch of direct orders since they were so oversubscribed.

jjp needs to make a 1000. if i owned or got in a CE at this point i wouldnt bitch. when a person like concrete gets screwed out of a grail pin it is just not fair. i dont want to hear “thats life” response. this can all be fixed by adding another 500 to the CE run. announce another 500 JJP! change the rules. its just ridiculous. we are all human and we make mistakes. i think the flippers are the ones that are getting upset.

ok great, we're on the same wave length.
Now lookup market forces, the demand curve and the relationship between price and quantity demanded or maybe the law of demand, specifically the shift in the demand curve and how it relates to pinball prices.

Not everyone can enjoy buying a luxury of buying a "overpriced" pin. Who gets to buy? The answer is whoever is willing and able to pay the price. The price of the "overpriced" pin adjusts until the quantity of pins demanded exactly balances the quantity supplied, unless there is limited supply...like nicely designed CE games. In short there is sufficient demand around the world to value the pin at $12,500US
thread off topic officially..

Help has arrived.

82069066190a50c9ad50af675ac7cff4_400x400 (resized).jpeg

This is the thing. JJP are in charge of the allocations and from everything we’re hearing, the distributors still haven’t got an allocation yet. Why would JJP send buyers to an international distributor?

Given the price differential, you have to wonder if there's not a better profit margin on Australia and EU sales, in which case maybe you guys will get hooked up.

I agree there was definitely a fault on JJP Mostly and some on distros.

But its still slightly different then this.

Reason being is some guys have been on a list for 5-6+ Months. And then you have many folks in here talking about how they contacted their distro over the weekend or day of release and are mad they didnt get a spot.

Welcome to the jungle
We've got fun 'n' games
We got everything you want
Honey, we know the names
We are the people that can find
Whatever you may need
If you got the money, honey
We got your disease

In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your
Knees, knees
I wanna watch you bleed

Welcome to the jungle
We take it day by day
If you want it you're gonna bleed
But it's the price you pay
And you're a very sexy girl
That's very hard to please
You can taste the bright lights
But you won't get them for free

In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Feel my, my, my, my serpentine
I, I wanna hear you scream

Welcome to the jungle
It gets worse here everyday
You learn to live like an animal
In the jungle where we play
If you got a hunger for what you see
You'll take it eventually
You can have anything you want
But you better not take it from me

Well
$12500 USD = $17500 AUD

We will pay
$20500 AUD = $14600 USD

Obviously shipping to Oz and taxes will be in our price.

If this was a persons absolute GRAIL pin. For one they should have been better prepared. Wayyyyy in advance. And if they still got screwed. Then money talks. There will be a NIB GnR CE Available over the next few weeks. It may be thousands more. But its achievable.

JJP and distribs could switch to a time limited CE: Taking orders for the first 7 days after a reveal. Full payment. 500 min CEs made but if more are bought within 7 days, more are made. Would have worked perfectly for this game. Buyers would still have pride of exclusivity. "Damn bro! I too was in on this game right away"

What I think should happen period on the CE is pay in full upfront period. I guarantee half don’t have the cash on hand today. Half that can afford it or have the cash may need a couple days or were going to put it on credit and have the cash to pay it off. Smart people would NEVER buy a pin on credit (0% interested card is exception) unless you can pay it off immediately. I am certain plenty of people need 2-6 months to get/raise the cash to pay for the game. Been around the hobby long enough to know most of us do not have 12-15K just sitting around unless they plan for it. There are few that have plenty of cash but that is not the norm for the majority.

There will be a lot more people than we will ever know loose 1K deposits or attempt to flip there spot. After the hype dies down and we see more game play the FOMO will die down. New games will come along and people will buy those. Spots will open up and some will be able to get a CE.

I personally think JJP nailed this game. Stern had the opportunity to do this with Kiss and blew it big time. They had the platform with Spike to do it and instead they launched their video display with shitty Aerosmith animations. People accepted it but don’t think it’s what people expected or really wanted.

Led Zeppelin is gonna go down like a Led Zeppelin unless they go over the top like JJP. Don’t see it happening but we will see.

Back on topic and good luck to those wanting a CE!

They tried it for Dialed In. Didn't work that hot. People bitching they should have a set number of CE's. Then people that forgot or ignored the deadline bitched they missed out.

LTG : )

Well just emailed my distributor. Said JJP pulled their promised allotment by 1/3rd and I am just under the cutoff, as in not getting one most likely but they haven't given up hope as they are expecting cancellations from the Direct orders. I put my order in 2 minutes and 27 seconds after the launch. I put down a non refundable (agreed to) $2000 dollar deposit on 10/5 and can and are willing to pay cash right now. This would be my first JJP purchase, among my other Sterns. Had I known I was supposed to go the Direct route to guarantee AND I was only buying a Pre-order and not a guarantee from a distributor, I would have had a CE direct no brainer. I know first world problems and all, but this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth from JJP. Why in the future would anyone buy a JJP from a distributor with this bait and switch that JJP pulled?

If you had your deposit down so quick, why are you so far down the line that you’re part of the 1/3 being cut? That’s messed up.

I have no idea, supposedly I missed the cutoff by 5 and 15 others may also lose their slots above and below me. Meanwhile, I kept looking at the JJP site all day as they were taking orders...thinking I was safe...

How did your distributor have a "promised allotment" when we are hearing that no allotments were communicated to distros?

It sounds like maybe the distributor is going to randomly select who gets them and who doesn’t. This whole thing sucks. Sorry man.

Assumed allotment

Here's a snippet of the email (some areas redacted with XXXXXX for privacy):

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:51 PM <[email protected]> wrote:

me: Did JJP pull back the allotments they promised you? If I was only getting in on a pre-order CE that wasn’t guaranteed, or understood that, I could have gone to the JJP site direct But wanted to use XXXXX as a distributor.

Distributor: Yes and then they screwed up and kept their site running. I think a bunch of cancelations are coming that way. I haven’t given up hope yet. And we are working on doing something for those of who that are getting cut on a le. It’s not able to be much but we feel like we should do something.

Anyone call JJP about this yet? Wondering what they have to say about this.

I wrote them this letter per their site. Waiting to see what happens if any cancels occur.

Hello, I purchased a non-refundable $2000 deposit on a GnR CE on 10/5 with XXXXXXXXXXXX exactly 2 minutes and 27 seconds after the launch window opened. Today I emailed the distributor and they are telling me JJP pulled their allotment back by 1/3rd and that I would most likely no longer receive one. So I am very confused here. I sat all day after the launch window thinking I had a confirmed reservation as XXXXXXXXXX stopped taking orders on their site an hour later. Meanwhile, the JJP site continued to sell machines. So, I could have paid JJP direct and been guaranteed, but since I went with a trusted distributor, I am out in the cold, and worse yet, this is because the allotment was cut? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Why even have a distributor network at all? Hope you can repair my situation as this would have been my first JJP purchase. Thank you for your time

So going on that. Distributors did know how many they were “supposedly” getting.
That would put this all on JJP. Not the distributors if true.

That's my thinking, if JJP asks how many?, distro says XXX, JJP says okay, and that's the way it's always been done in the past, why get greedy and cut the legs out from under your distributors? I can't figure that one out

Well said....Theres a reason why Stern doesn't sell directly to customers. Its just too confusing, and it cuts out your real sales force. The whole order direct option is what really screwed things up. JJP needs to pick which sand box they want to play in

Well other distros have said no numbers were given so someone is stretching the truth. They would have nothing to gain by saying that but if some were assuming an allotment they would be covering their own asses by lying. Will be interesting to see once this all settles....did jjp promise distros but over sold by leaving their site up or did distros Ass-U-Me?

Sounds like same distributor. I paid well before the reveal if that helps. I think others did as well.

The people that complained are 1) flippers 2) those that are "investing" 3) those that want that warm, fuzzy feeling of having something rare. Maybe someone else, I don't know

Group 1, WGAF. Group 2, maybe a few hundred dollars difference in eventual sale profit or loss. Probably depends more on how good the game is. Group 3, no big difference in warm fuzzy feeling of 500 existing or 1000 existing. The number is arbitrary

Spooky does both and blew through 750 Rick and Mortys in about the same amount of time if not faster. I remember some salty folks regarding how quickly they sold out but the whole thing was handled well as far as I could tell.

The saltiness from that fiasco was with those who chose to disregard spooky's announcement a month prior to release that they were changing up their process of distributing machines. On previous releases, spooky gave priority to previous buyers. Those people assumed they would get the same advantage even after the announcement.

That takes out some of the sting. Are you going to wait and see and then switch to an LE if need be, or wait ?

I’m towards the top of the list. He is bending over backwards and racking his brain to try to do what he can to remedy the situation that was no fault of his own. No one will work harder for you than he will. Sucks JJP put him in this situation.

Okay better info:

Was just now told by distro: JJP told them "we're not doing allocations." instead they asked my distributor how many they needed, they told them and then JJP said okay.

They only sold on their site what they told JJP they needed

Looks like JJP took their eyes off the road and didn't realize they were overselling versus what they asked their distributors for numbers until it was too late. I have to blame JJP on this one.

Yep, seems awesome and great communication and I really feel bad they have been put in this place. JJP needs to make this right somehow

Yea I’ve had a relationship with them for over a decade. And honestly I should just have my paychecks skip the middleman (my bank) and go direct to them. They are the best of people. I hope he can help you out or JJP does something.

Sounds like I'm using the same place. I've gone through them before and if he pulls this off, well, no words.

Good to know someone knows how to manage both sides...

This cant be compared to spooky at all with Rick and morty, was handled in a complete different way.

From my understanding, Distributors were asked how many they wanted prior to release. So if a distributor said he wanted 50, thats what he emailed them saying he will take. JJP doesn't reply to any distributor at that time to "confirm" they are getting that many, but also not saying they are not. SO the distributors "assume" that they are getting what they asked, since this is how it was handled on all previous releases.

Who is at fault: I honestly believe JJP is, since this was there standard operating procedure previously.

Sadly, JJP has caused some disruption in their business model because of greed. Several distributors are unhappy, and it will affect JJP in the long term.

Back to my first comment about spooky. Distributors knew for a fact that they had X amount of games, and only sold that many, and this information was given to them prior to release

Be careful speaking logic....some will jump down your throat for that They don't like to hear the truth.....

While i'm still VERY excited to get a GNR CE, after watching the stream tonight i've got a feeling that anyone that wants one is going to be able to get it.

A lot of folks will either drop out because they can't flip it OR drop down to the LE.

A little patience and the "getting burned" feeling might recede a bit after the FOMO wears off.

Still, JJP screwed themselves with their distributors who were already unhappy with past practices. That's coming from multiple sources first hand.

I hope your right, but Its really hard to judge a game via a first video stream.....this is the type of game u need to flip in person in order to enjoy the entire experience. Code is developed, but its still early, and will get refined over time. It looks like a great pin to me, and getting the full experience (CE) will only be a bonus.

Game looked fantastic to me and like most games it will get better as the code evolves. Eric killed it now Keith needs to finish the job. I truly believe they can do it. Keep up the momentum guys.

Why have distributors when you can go direct to customer?
Well, maybe when a company starts, they can’t reach a mass audience. In comes the distributor with a show room for you to test the game, multiple show rooms across the map.
All types of pinball machines to play until you find the one for you and you buy.
Great relationship.
Company gets popular now, based on the backs of distributors and now assumes/realizes that they are leaving money on The table by not going direct to consumer...
Why not cut out the guys that have made a business of promoting us and just give the people what they want....
Sell direct, unexpectedly, with your greatest product to date,
In turn sullying the distributors reputation of basing a businesses previous actions and sales in accordance to their usual allotments.
They assume they will get 10/500
They always get 10/500
They had their 10 buyers picked before the drop. Everyone knew it would be a success.
The average consumer now thinks the Distro ripped them off? Lied to them?
But heck, I don’t think they were allowed to put in order before the drop?
So how does your deposit matter.
The only thing you can possibly argue is the pecking order the distro gives its 2/10 CEs they ended up getting...
But before you do that, why don’t you try to figure out how many CE went to celebrities and/or “influencers”
How many did the company sell streamline, before then tell distribution their allotments.
I can only imagine the nightmare of dealing with customers flaking or fraudulently ordering direct from the manufacturer.
Not a issue when you use distributors.
What is issues occur with the pins?
I’ve never had to try to mail a machine from Canada to the states. But I assume it’s a nightmare.
Who’s gonna broker your playfield issues? Mech issues? Re-install a unpopulated playfield.
I’m fairly new to the pin game, I’ve bought old and NIB.
2 of my pins had problems out of the box.
Distro handled it all.
Can with the part, to my house, installed the part.
Stayed until I was satisfied.
Came back if there was a issue.
I wonder if they will use distributions infrastructure when trying to ship single units all across the world.
Pay the Distro minimum payment to deliver their product.
I dunno.
I totally feel for anyone that missed out on a pin if they wanted it.
But make sure you take in all the info before placing blame.
Heck? Even I could be wrong about all the junk I just wrote?

I feel horrible for all of those who thought they were in and later told bad news. I truly hope this never happens again. It's not good for pinball. People should feel good about there purchase not guilty and or dirty. Congratulations to all the lucky and I feel for the people who were treated unfairly.