(Topic ID: 278928)

I got burned JJP GnR CE deposit


By mslow

3 months ago



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  • 215 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by paynemic
  • Topic is favorited by 28 Pinsiders

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There are 648 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 13.
#251 3 months ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

You were all good till your #3.

Really? point 3 was the best one

10
#252 3 months ago
Quoted from djsoup:

Had I known this would happen I probably would've ordered directly from JJP site but I wanted to support my local distributor since he's awesome.

Same - I think supporting your favorite or any distributor is important.

I was just listening to what JJP told me to do instead of buying direct.

distributors.JPG
10
#253 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

So, I better put a down payment on my Dead Kennedys CE now?

Too Drunk To Preorder

13
#254 3 months ago

So you think you will get a NIB GNR CE... "Not In This Lifetime"

#255 3 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

So your 10 year old kid can run a pinball company and the entire distribution network. Smart kid. Pinball is easy.

No, but in 10 minutes he could put together allocation numbers so the distribution network knew what the hell was going on. This is probably the easiest thing a pinball company has to do.

#256 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

No, but in 10 minutes he could put together allocation numbers so the distribution network knew what the hell was going on. This is probably the easiest thing a pinball company has to do.

I think there are less than 60 distributors. It really is quite simple. Very surprised it all came down to this.

-5
#257 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

No, but in 10 minutes he could put together allocation numbers so the distribution network knew what the hell was going on. This is probably the easiest thing a pinball company has to do.

If it's so easy, then why does literally every company in the world suck at it? Accurately predicting demand for a new product launch, and being ready to handle either too much or too little, is one of the hardest problems to solve for in business. I understand your frustration, but if you don't have any direct experience with that problem then I suggest you stop trying to tell everyone how easy it is, because you sound silly.

#258 3 months ago

This game is getting coverage everywhere, mayor rock magazines like Kerrang! have run articles, so millions of people are seeing this thing....whomever is doing the marketing at JJP is doing a damn fine job. So 500 CE's will sell out quicker than I can type this message. JJP have hit the jackpot here, demand far exceeding supply, so more CE's will be produced, it would be madness not to.

Rock band games are duller than dishwater in my opinion, but they have the biggest appeal worldwide. This is a massive hit not just for JPP but for pinball.

Sadly, this does mean more rock band games are coming.

13
#259 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

No, but in 10 minutes he could put together allocation numbers so the distribution network knew what the hell was going on. This is probably the easiest thing a pinball company has to do.

I get why everyone's pissed, and this is another in a string of unforced errors by JJP. But I think Keith explained pretty clearly what happened in his post -- they've never sold out a CE before, or at least not right away, and they simply weren't prepared. Distributors were used to always getting their requested number of games, and JJP was used to being able to fill them. It is, indeed, a fix that a 10 year old could have implemented, and they'll surely have it in place next time around. They just didn't think they'd ever need it, and now they've pissed off their distributors and many buyers.

Having fucked up, the question now is how JJP moves forward. Do they give priority to orders placed through Jersey Jack's website (further screwing the distributor network)? Or do they transparently "share the pain" so that everyone loses sales but no one is left entirely out in the cold? And do they throw a bone of some kind to people that were told they had a machine reserved but didn't make the cut? How you handle your mistakes is often more important than having made them in the first place.

10
#260 3 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I get why everyone's pissed, and this is another in a string of unforced errors by JJP. But I think Keith explained pretty clearly what happened in his post -- they've never sold out a CE before, or at least not right away, and they simply weren't prepared. Distributors were used to always getting their requested number of games, and JJP was used to being able to fill them. It is, indeed, a fix that a 10 year old could have implemented, and they'll surely have it in place next time around. They just didn't think they'd ever need it, and now they've pissed off their distributors and many buyers.
Having fucked up, the question now is how JJP moves forward. Do they give priority to orders placed through Jersey Jack's website (further screwing the distributor network)? Or do they transparently "share the pain" so that everyone loses sales but no one is left entirely out in the cold? And do they throw a bone of some kind to people that were told they had a machine reserved but didn't make the cut? How you handle your mistakes is often more important than having made them in the first place.

It's an interesting question, but the whole point of a CE is that not everybody can get one. It's like concert tickets, people get furious at Ticketmaster, the band, etc. when they can't get a ticket but that's life. For a hot show at MSG 20,000 people get tickets and another 100,000 or so don't, depending on the act and demand. There's only so many to go around and the people who miss out don't get a "consolation prize."

The smart thing to do is probably play up the fact that GNR CE sold out in seconds, and just hope future CE titles are in equal demand. If you think they are, make 600 or 700 next time.

#261 3 months ago

With JJP I feel like production numbers don’t matter so they should just produce more CE units. JJP I’m sure is not in a monetary position to cancel people’s orders.

#262 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

No, but in 10 minutes he could put together allocation numbers so the distribution network knew what the hell was going on. This is probably the easiest thing a pinball company has to do.

Sure but that's hindsight at this point. JJP did not expect such an immediate demand so obviously they were not prepared. They probably didn't even expect the CE's to sell out ever. Have CE's sold out on other titles? Why limit certain retailers to 1 or 2 games if you think there will be plenty of games? Imo, fans created this limited edition madness monster not the manufacturers. Sorry if I lack any sympathy.

11
#263 3 months ago

I ordered an LE from a well known distributor immediately after the reveal - then as an hour or so went by I started regretting not getting a CE so I contacted the distributor again asking if I could "upgrade" to a CE. He said that he had *not* been given an allotment number from JJP yet, and that he had a waiting list for CEs 30-deep already.

If this distributor had that information and was honorable enough not to take deposits or make promises without assurance they could be fulfilled, I don't see why other distributors could not have done the same.

10
#264 3 months ago
Quoted from fuko:

If it's so easy, then why does literally every company in the world suck at it? Accurately predicting demand for a new product launch, and being ready to handle either too much or too little, is one of the hardest problems to solve for in business. I understand your frustration, but if you don't have any direct experience with that problem then I suggest you stop trying to tell everyone how easy it is, because you sound silly.

It has nothing to do with predicting demand...Its simply managing your sales channel so they can go to work selling your product. Its mind boggling to me u don't get it....

500 CE's in total (static number)
x amount of CE's for direct website sales (clearly this was their first mistake)
balance of CE's get allocated to our distribution network

It not that hard dude!

#265 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

its a simple math problem that my 10 year old could do.

Your 10 year old didn’t know the problem existed until it was too late- same as every professional at JJP.

In hindsight many, many people will have solutions. Some of those solutions will be implemented. Different problems will emerge and so on.

Congratulations on the incredible success!

#266 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Your 10 year old didn’t know the problem existed until it was too late- same as every professional at JJP.
In hindsight many, many people will have solutions. Some of those solutions will be implemented. Different problems will emerge and so on.
Congratulations on the incredible success!

True, but an educated sales person would know they need to manage their distribution network.

#267 3 months ago

This does seem unfortunate and looks like poor planning on JJP's part. But I don't think this warrants outrage, unless you're going to lose your $1000 deposit. That would be another, bigger issue.

22
#268 3 months ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

This does seem unfortunate and looks like poor planning on JJP's part. But I don't think this warrants outrage, unless you're going to lose your $1000 deposit. That would be another, bigger issue.

Right, the topic is typically misleading.

Nobody got "burned on a $1,000 deposit."

They just weren't able to buy a limited edition product because demand far exceeded supply.

-24
#269 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Right, the topic is typically misleading.
Nobody got "burned on a $1,000 deposit."
They just weren't able to buy a limited edition product because demand far exceeded supply.

Yes. We were burned. We lost a chance to secure a CE because of misleading info. And future money was lost. CEs will most likely retain or go up in value. While LE will go down in value.

17
#270 3 months ago
Quoted from mslow:

Yes. We were burned. We lost a chance to secure a CE because of misleading info. And future money was lost. CEs will most likely retain or go up in value. While LE will go down in value.

oh man it's just tragic.

25
#271 3 months ago
Quoted from mslow:

Yes. We were burned. We lost a chance to secure a CE because of misleading info. And future money was lost. CEs will most likely retain or go up in value. While LE will go down in value.

I buy my pinball machines to play and enjoy, not as a future investment.

21
#272 3 months ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

I buy my pinball machines to play and enjoy, not as a future investment.

Dude, future money was lost.

And now he'll have to settle for the shitty $10,000 version of the game, where no future money will be won!!!

JJP are monsters!!!

#273 3 months ago
Quoted from mslow:

Yes. We were burned. We lost a chance to secure a CE because of misleading info. And future money was lost. CEs will most likely retain or go up in value. While LE will go down in value.

Maybe hit the stock market instead for the next big investment?

#274 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's an interesting question, but the whole point of a CE is that not everybody can get one. It's like concert tickets, people get furious at Ticketmaster, the band, etc. when they can't get a ticket but that's life. For a hot show at MSG 20,000 people get tickets and another 100,000 or so don't, depending on the act and demand. There's only so many to go around and the people who miss out don't get a "consolation prize."

Sure. Difference here is that, because JJP bungled their preorder process, lots of customers were told they'd secured a machine and then learned it wasn't so. It may be factually correct to tell people that, given where they were on the preorder list, there were > 500 ahead of them so they didn't really "deserve" a CE. But when you tell someone they've got something, ask them to pay for it, and then take it away, you can expect them to be pissed.

Of course some people would still be griping on pinside if the game had sold out in seconds and they just missed out, but this is something different. And I think JJP has to be at least somewhat concerned about burning bridges with distributors and customers. Which is where the consolation prizes come in.

#275 3 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

Maybe hit the stock market instead for the next big investment?

I got burned by Netflix today! They opened at $517 but now they are at $534. I didn’t make $17 a share. I was almost robbed.

#276 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I got burned by Netflix today! They opened at $517 but now they are at $534. I didn’t make $17 a share. I was almost robbed.

You should have gotten in years ago when I did...the headquarters of that company is right down the street from me....I think my purchased shares were like $16

11
#277 3 months ago

Stern added more Batman 66's. JJP just up it to 1000 CE's.

#278 3 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Sure. Difference here is that, because JJP bungled their preorder process, lots of customers were told they'd secured a machine and then learned it wasn't so. It may be factually correct to tell people that, given where they were on the preorder list, there were > 500 ahead of them so they didn't really "deserve" a CE. But when you tell someone they've got something, ask them to pay for it, and then take it away, you can expect them to be pissed.
Of course some people would still be griping on pinside if the game had sold out in seconds and they just missed out, but this is something different. And I think JJP has to be at least somewhat concerned about burning bridges with distributors and customers. Which is where the consolation prizes come in.

Totally agree. I find the excuses laughable...we all know what happened. JJP screwed the pooch from day 1 by not allocating sales to its distributors. I actually had a CE in my shopping cart but went the distributor route assuming they would be taken care of. In general greed is good for any company, but in this case they screwed a lot of people.

#279 3 months ago

I don't really care about getting the CE per se, I just want some of the CE features. Sell me the LE and then option me some of the features in the CE. It's not technically a CE, but it will have the features. Sell me the topper, sell me the armor, sell me that kick ass shooter. You can keep your certificate and signatures.

#280 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Dude, future money was lost.
And now he'll have to settle for the shitty $10,000 version of the game, where no future money will be won!!!
JJP are monsters!!!

I really could care less if a game goes up or down in value. I will admit its nice to have a game not many have in their collection, but could care less about resale value. We all know that most JJP LE's/CE's drop in value very quickly (POTC LE is an exception that rule)....my guess is GNR CE will increase if game play is up to par with POTC....time will tell

15
#281 3 months ago

Just curious, how many people care about the limited availability of the collector's edition or they just want the the best possible version of the game?

Me personally, I couldn't care less how many they make, I just like to get the best version of the game.
If 1,000 other people have the same thing, I really don't care.

Make another version with the lock mech and different colors and sell what you can.
I don't really think most of us care about the limited numbers or collectability aspect of it.

#282 3 months ago

when will these pinball companies figure out 500 is not a big enough run to meet demand.

#283 3 months ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

Sadly, this does mean more rock band games are coming.

I'm in for a Pantera CE. Get on it JJP, after ToyStory of course.

#284 3 months ago

When does the thread start where people bitch about other people flipping CE spots for $15k?

#285 3 months ago
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

when will these pinball companies figure out 500 is not a big enough run to meet demand.

well based on JJP past history 500 is more than enough

#286 3 months ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

I'm in for a Pantera CE. Get on it JJP, after ToyStory of course.

As a big Pantera fan.....no....they would sell about 3 CE's....you....me and Phil. lol

#287 3 months ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Just curious, how many people care about the limited availability of the collector's edition or they just want the the best possible version of the game?
Me personally, I couldn't care less how many they make, I just like to get the best version of the game.
If 1,000 other people have the same thing, I really don't care.
Make another version with the lock mech and different colors and sell what you can.
I don't really think most of us care about the limited numbers or collectability aspect of it.

I just wanted the best version of the game....and in my opinion it was the CE....I'm sure others feel differently

#288 3 months ago

Remember, JJP has never sold out of a CE in the company's existence.

There are different factors to why this also is currently happening :

1) Covid-People at home with time/money and want the latest toy to entertain themselves.

2) Theme integration-Asset overload, they basically acquired an unprecedented amount of content (Great job JJP). Most people realize that it will probably never occur at this level again, so the frenzy took over.

3) Marketing-Proved that timing and proper launch techniques sell these games.

There's 500 CE's, but there's also 5000 LE's, so not all is lost.

It's great to see that the hobby is evolving and healthy in what seems to be "unstable times".

#289 3 months ago

Sorry for asking; I've not had time to look at this launch much, but what are the functional (not cosmetic) differences between the CE and LE again? CE has more lights? I've seen conflicting posts here and there while skimming...

I care not about bling, but would want all the other features. If they're not available outside of the 500 CEs, I'm less interested in the LE. I prefer Stern's method of identical playfields and just adding bling for their "CE" games.

#290 3 months ago
Quoted from insight75:

As a big Pantera fan.....no....they would sell about 3 CE's....you....me and Phil. lol

Make that 4!

#291 3 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

Sorry for asking; I've not had time to look at this launch much, but what are the functional (not cosmetic) differences between the CE and LE again? CE has more lights? I've seen conflicting posts here and there while skimming...
I care not about bling, but would want all the other features. If they're not available outside of the 500 CEs, I'm less interested in the LE. I prefer Stern's method of identical playfields and just adding bling for their "CE" games.

I believe the only functional difference on the playfield is that the CE has the apron ball lock for Coma. -On the LE it's a virtual lock and uses the shooter lane to eject the balls vs. the kickback. I believe the lighting on the playfields are the same. CE has extra lighting on the cabinet/undercab, etc.

#292 3 months ago
Quoted from Trogdor:

How many have ever needed your honest feedback about any post made? Bravo with obnoxious, just bravo . So now, I guess you have to wait for people to ask for your honest feedback- got it.
If my job was anything to do with selling pins and I’m commenting with consumers on a pinball site, why wouldn’t he want or expect feedback? People are upset but nobody is burning JJP pins. People got hosed and are looking for answers. Answers confirmed- JJP screwed up, full stop.
Or are you just poking the bear because you are a Stern fan? Bravo sir, bravo

People got hosed? LOL. Again, no one would have dreamed they would sell out of CE's in hours. A few days before people where talking about JJP on the verge of financial collapse and ruin. This site is so full of idiots. Half the people who ordered a CE probably just want to flip for a profit anyway.

#293 3 months ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Why do you say that? Not being argumentative. Just curious what your thoughts are.

Just expecting a discount after someone missed out on a very limited item. Its the nature of the beast. I agree it wasnt handled correctly. But Through Keefer JJP has apologized and promised to be better next time around. It just is what it is. There is no making everyone happy. Because demand outweighs supply of a limited collectors item. This happens all the time and is what makes collectibles valuable in the first place.

If i had missed out on CE i would care less about a few hundred dollars off from an LE. Its not about the money clearly. Its about the item.

I dont agree JJP should feel obligated to give out discounts. Discounts dont help anything anyway.

#294 3 months ago
Quoted from woody76:

Again, no one would have dreamed they would sell out of CE's in hours.

Why Not i ask?
It Happened With metallica who also has a big fan-based website so why not with a game with more features than the lower models and just as many fans
.
I still have my Met Prem Roadcase and if i would not have been Shorted my LE i would still have it. Granted i think i lucked out saving on that one because i liked the Raodcase Edition artwork than i did for METLE artwork but was still pissed. But again Still have it .

So why believe half would sell to flip it . Kiss seems to have went up and even now do not see many for sale with the release of this game .

I think Music/Pin collectors actually Keep The Game because it is for their own enjoyment and not as a business model like the guy who buys more than one or one of each speculating he can score a flipping profit.

"Discounts dont help anything anyway." helps out buyers wallets

#295 3 months ago

Or increase the price to 20k to lower demand. This machine obviously wasn’t priced right to meet the demand it had. I am sure you will see people immediately flipping this machine for double the price to people that really wanted it. Much like how the scalping industry is so prevalent in the music industry.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's an interesting question, but the whole point of a CE is that not everybody can get one. It's like concert tickets, people get furious at Ticketmaster, the band, etc. when they can't get a ticket but that's life. For a hot show at MSG 20,000 people get tickets and another 100,000 or so don't, depending on the act and demand. There's only so many to go around and the people who miss out don't get a "consolation prize."
The smart thing to do is probably play up the fact that GNR CE sold out in seconds, and just hope future CE titles are in equal demand. If you think they are, make 600 or 700 next time.

-9
#296 3 months ago
Quoted from woody76:

People got hosed? LOL. Again, no one would have dreamed they would sell out of CE's in hours. A few days before people where talking about JJP on the verge of financial collapse and ruin. This site is so full of idiots. Half the people who ordered a CE probably just want to flip for a profit anyway.

coming from someone who didn't put up hard cash for a CE and then get bumped due to JJP's incompetence .... u sound like the idiot

#297 3 months ago

seems like they should at least say CE are limited to orders by people and distributors in the first 24hrs, then announce the CE number then, say they sell 826 units the first 24hours, then 826 is the Limited number. I think the game looks amazing, I dislike band pins theme wise, and not a fan of GNR. Maybe the new lower price point for JJP will carry over on there older games? $6750 for a new Hobbit ST and Wonka ST, $13500 comes flying out of my pocket for that deal... and what's with the no free shipping crap everywhere, next thing you know they will want sales tax...(which I would pay if bought in my state)

#298 3 months ago
Quoted from billyboy:

Remember, JJP has never sold out of a CE in the company's existence.
There are different factors to why this also is currently happening :
1) Covid-People at home with time/money and want the latest toy to entertain themselves.
2) Theme integration-Asset overload, they basically acquired an unprecedented amount of content (Great job JJP). Most people realize that it will probably never occur at this level again, so the frenzy took over.
3) Marketing-Proved that timing and proper launch techniques sell these games.
There's 500 CE's, but there's also 5000 LE's, so not all is lost.
It's great to see that the hobby is evolving and healthy in what seems to be "unstable times".

JJP also never had a CE with non-cosmetic differences before.

That silly ball lock is what is really driving up the demand.

FOMO is a marketer's best tool

#299 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's an interesting question, but the whole point of a CE is that not everybody can get one. It's like concert tickets, people get furious at Ticketmaster, the band, etc. when they can't get a ticket but that's life. For a hot show at MSG 20,000 people get tickets and another 100,000 or so don't, depending on the act and demand. There's only so many to go around and the people who miss out don't get a "consolation prize."
The smart thing to do is probably play up the fact that GNR CE sold out in seconds, and just hope future CE titles are in equal demand. If you think they are, make 600 or 700 next time.

Exactly.

I played world of warcraft for many years. (A video game that had 12 Million active players)

They held a convention every year but could only sell about 80,000 tickets. I made the ticket que and went to the convention 4 years. But i had to have 4-5 friends at their computers refreshing the pages rapidly and clicking fast in order to do that.

Every year after tickets were sold out, in literally less than 2 seconds. There would be massive threads on the forums of everybody crying and whining that didnt get a ticket and how shitty of a company Blizzard was because of it.

Its the nature of the beast on limited Editions and Limited anything when demand is much higher.

I think its lesson learned for not only JJP and distributors but also consumers that missed out.

JJP Will do nothing but move on. People keep saying just make more CEs. No remember how much backlash stern got for the munsters debacle. It devalues the CE if you do that.

Also people keep saying give discounts to the people that were on lists. Just cause your on a list doesnt mean these people were PAID in FULL an 100% Following through getting the game. Lots of tire kickers get on lists then drop off or settle for an SE/LE once pay your bill time comes. So how would they distinguish from those people and the legit ones? They couldnt. So thats not feasable either.

#300 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I believe the only functional difference on the playfield is that the CE has the apron ball lock for Coma. -On the LE it's a virtual lock and uses the shooter lane to eject the balls vs. the kickback. I believe the lighting on the playfields are the same. CE has extra lighting on the cabinet/undercab, etc.

Appreciate the info, thanks! I'll wait til they're out to play before choosing one (if any). Ball lock likely not a big deal, and I can add my own cab lights if I want them. Going to get an Avengers first though.

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